Non Toxic (NT) primed cases and reloading them

[Homer]

G'Day Fella's,

I recently purchased a heap (x 3000ish) of once fired 9mm Luger/9 x 19mm cases.
When I got them back to the Funshop, I realised they were a mixed bunch of cases, not only different brands bur different batches (of Federal Cartridge/FC).
If you look at the primer flash holes, you can see that the left hand side two FC Non Toxic (NT) have large flash holes, the middle two FC NT have normal size flash holes, the same size as the two standard Toxic Winchester cases on the right!

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From what I've read on this, because the primer Flash Hole is so much larger, it is recommended that you reduce your normal powder charge by some amount, to stop a large Pressure Spike from happening!
But then, I've spoken to some people, that have had no problems when using these cases.......................... but I don't know anything about what their normal powder charge is so???

Also, many of these NT cases, have their primers Crimped in place!
So to ease seating new primers, I De-Crimped them all.
Here is an image of Before and After.

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Doh!
Homer

[Ed9362]

By toxic are you referring to Mercury fulminate primers? I'm just curious because I have never heard of toxic and non toxic ammo

[trekin]

Could be the low lead/indoor safe ammo, that has a large primer, with enlarged flash hole, the NT bullet is light and the NT "green" primer isn't quite hot enough (internet lore, I'm assuming it's true, it makes sense), so they have opened the flash hole. The larger flash hole makes the crimp necessary to prevent primer blow back.

[Homer]

G'Day Fella's,

Ed9362, no I was referring to Lead Styphnate!
The NT primers, use a different priming compound, to this.

Doh!
Homer

[Prettybird]

Larger flash hole would (arguably) change the accuracy/POI by affecting how the powder burns but I'm not seeing why it would necessitate reducing your powder load.

You're still igniting the same amount of powder as is supposedly safe with the smaller flash hole. There might be a change in curve of pressure but I don't see how it could push it so high to dangerous levels?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Where were you getting the info that reducing the load was required?

[Homer]

G'Day Fella's,

Basically Prettybird, the powder is being ignited faster, via the lager flash hole!
If another NT primer was used (with an appropriate powder type and charge for this primer), all would be OK.
But we are mixing things around and doing things that were never envisaged for these cases.

FYI, the primer flash hole, is like a restrictor or choke device to regulate the flow of the primer brisiance (sparks), into the powder chamber!
And similar to enlarging the Fuel Jet in an Internal Combustion Engine, this allows more "Go-Fast" into the system! Excuse my crude analogy on this but.......

So basically, the cases were cheap but they come with an additional need for Caution, when reloading them, hence this thread!!!

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer

[Prettybird]

Yeah mate I understand the issue...... Igniting it all at the same time would be like a detonation, rather than lighting the bottom and having it burn up the column like a propulsion.

I agree there would be some change, I was just saying for the amount of powder we're talking about in these pistol cartridge and how much larger the hole is in the cases you've provided I wouldn't have thought it would make that much of a difference as to make things dangerous.

In any case, just personal thoughts here.

[Homer]

G'Day Fella's,

No probs Prettybird!
I just work on the old Physics theory of, "For each and every Action, there is an equal and opposite Reaction"!!!
With reloading (and no shortage of other things in life), I like to play it safe and Challenge all Assumptions!

Doh!
Homer

[Wobble]

It's a very technical (and long) read but if you guys are interested in a more scientific look at it and not just opinions give this a read.

The effects of physical flash hole deviations on factory-grade rifle ammunition

Not light reading, but informative.

[chacka]

I just work on the old Physics theory of, "For each and every Action, there is an equal and opposite Reaction"!!!
With reloading (and no shortage of other things in life), I like to play it safe and Challenge all Assumptions!

Trying not to send your fingers in equal and opposite directions?

[Seik]

I do believe that's rule 1 in the safety booklet.

[Homer]

I just work on the old Physics theory of, "For each and every Action, there is an equal and opposite Reaction"!!!
With reloading (and no shortage of other things in life), I like to play it safe and Challenge all Assumptions!

Trying not to send your fingers in equal and opposite directions?

G'Day Fella's,

Thats it chacka!

Doh!
Homer

[ebr love]

I do believe that's rule 1 in the safety booklet.

And I think #2 is plugging a barrel with your finger doesn't work like in the cartoons