B&T Energetics varmint R

[AusTac]

Looks fancy

[Strikey]

B&T Energetics were over on " God's " forum, a few of the members there had used these projectiles and only had good things to say about the results they were achieving, give 'em a go,

[Chronos]

Not sure how the brass jackets would go in a barrel. At a few dollars cheaper than Berger I'll stick with the known product

Chronos

[Gwion]

I've got a bunch of them but my barrel doesn't like the 40gn jobbies. I got a pretty good load for the 55s but wanted a lighter pill and ordered 1000 40s. D'oh!

Anyhow, their terminal performance is excellent. It is recommended that you limit velocity to 3400fps. It's pretty cool the process he used to make them; all recycled material, hence the 'R'. Also, Brendan is good to deal with and it's great to support a local business. He also makes premium target & military projectiles. Most of his inventory ends up in the U.S.

What weight are they?

[bigfellascott]

I've got some 55's but haven't gotten around to reloading em as yet.

[bigfellascott]

Not sure how the brass jackets would go in a barrel. At a few dollars cheaper than Berger I'll stick with the known product

Chronos

Mate uses 695gn machined brass projies in his 50cal from memory.

[Chronos]

Not sure how the brass jackets would go in a barrel. At a few dollars cheaper than Berger I'll stick with the known product

Chronos

Mate uses 695gn machined brass projies in his 50cal from memory.

Yeah but bullet alloy (guilding alloy or free machining brass) is not case brass (yellow brass) work hardened through the forming process

Steve

[Bills Shed]

Not sure how the brass jackets would go in a barrel. At a few dollars cheaper than Berger I'll stick with the known product

Chronos

Mate uses 695gn machined brass projies in his 50cal from memory.

Yeah but bullet alloy (guilding alloy or free machining brass) is not case brass (yellow brass) work hardened through the forming process

Steve

It is good to se that people are supporting the local projectile manufacturers. I also swage .224 projectiles from .22LR cases and I can say that the jacket is not hard from work hardening. In fact it is so soft that you can squash the case mouth between your fingers with little effort. Most of the time the annealing process takes place after the derimming process. After that it is just core seating and point forming. Point forming does work the brass but it is still quite soft.
The cost reflects the work and effort that goes into making the projectile if you count labour costs. As I build them for myself I do not consider the labour cost but as there is about eight steps in the manufacture of each projectile( depending on weight), that adds up to man hours over a thousand projectiles. Projectiles are not getting any cheaper and so I have just finished a set of ring dies to swage .172 jackets out of the .22LR cases.. That is another two steps.
The finishing dies I will get from Corbin. That is a wait of about 6 months or more.
These projectiles are very ...destructive... under 100 M. After that they mushroom very well. I run 40 grain projectiles through my K hornet but with a 1E nose radius(1calibre) and the 55 grain has a 5S, the same as the OP picture. Having a 5S radius on 40 grain or less leaves very little bearing surface, hence the 1E. The beauty of swaging your own projectile is that you can build any weight you want, change centre of gravity, hollow point, lead tip, etc, etc.

Bill

[Bills Shed]

40 grain 1E projectile. These were from a first trial and as you can see the jacket is over annealed ( speckled) and are not cleaned after the point forming. It is easy to make junk. Quality control is a must and you need to experiment to get it right. As you can see the bearing surface is far more than a forty grain with 5S point ( above).
To the OP, please let us know your results with your projectiles as I like to compare notes with others who " roll their own"
Bill

[Bills Shed]

To the OP, please let us know your results with your projectiles as I like to compare notes with others who " roll their own"
Bill

gday Bill, I'll be sure to post my results.
How have you found them at your slower hornet type speeds?

Hi Bentaz,
Out of the hornet they are great, I would even go so far as to say the 40 grain, thin jacket projectile is made for the hornet. The pic of the mushroomed projectile is out of a wallaby ( under permit) at about 150m. MV is about 2800 f/s. Anything under 100m and you only find fragments. If you are going to use trail boss I gather you want to go real slow and I think they will perform very well. They are ideal for thin skinned animals and they used thousands of this type of projectile around NSW for years on kangaroo culls (as there was a local bloke who made them).
The hornet has a slow twist rate and so the RPM is not a drama. There is a lot of discussion about what makes these projectiles fail in flight. There are some shooters firing these thin jacketed 55 grain projectiles out of a 22-250 and they hold together very well. It has been noted that these projectiles do not handle the high twist rate barrels very well, (1 in 10 or faster). I have not trailed this yet. If you want to get into the guts of the how and why, have a look at "Corbin bullets" in your search engine.
Bill

[brett1868]

Case brass is 70/30 Copper/Zinc whilst projectile are generally made from Half Hard brass 66/34 Copper / Zinc so very little difference between them. Mohs and Brinnell hardness are also similar so in theory brass projectiles shouldn't cause any greater wear in a barrel than copper. I have shot many brass VLDS in .375 .416 and 50 cal with no drop off in accuracy but I do moly coat them now purely to extend barrel life. One of the great joys of brass projectiles is not having to clean copper fouling and with moly I find barrel cleaning fast and simple.
I'd be curious to know if a 22Mag case could be formed into a VLD for 22-250....that would be interesting

[Bills Shed]

I'd be curious to know if a 22Mag case could be formed into a VLD for 22-250....that would be interesting

This is a good idea but not new. The .22 mag has a case diameter of .242" and therefore ideal for the 6mm projectile family.
The 22-250 fires a .224" projectile and so you would need to swage down over .020" before core seating and point forming to get the final diameter
Not impossible but you would need to first anneal, derim and then swage down. You may need to go down in two stages. Next time I am annealing some LR cases I may give it a go. There would have to be a bit of experimentation as the punch size will differ, as the case wall thickness is also slightly different from the 22lr and if the cases are to soft after annealing the punch would tear through them. To get the right length there may need to be a trim to length step as well. Better to keep them for the 6 mm.
Have a look at http://castboolits.gunloads.com, under swaging, for all the ideas that are being thrown about.
Now you can see why they are not cheap! It is all about time!

Bill

[Gwion]

Anyhow, their terminal performance is excellent. It is recommended that you limit velocity to 3400fps.

I'm wondering how they'll perform at much slower speed, I 'm gunna try them over my trail boss load once i get it dialed in.

At 2000fps, 1.5-2" exit hole in light bodied game... much bigger at higher velocities!

Chronos, from memory of my chats with Brendan, they are annealed and passavated before final swagging... not up with all the terms, i don't even know what passavated means... He also tells me that the brass jacket is softer and (for want of a better term) less grippy in the barrel than it's copper counterpart. I did pick his brains about it, i'm just not very good at explaining what he explained to me...

[Gwion]

Bentas, you may find the load needs a little tweek if you develop with a copper jacket and then load with a brass jacket. They will behave differently in the barrel. For instance, i loaded 8.9gn with copper and then found 9.1gn was better with the brass.

[Gwion]

I'd still give them a run. They might not expand so much on bunnies. The things i shoot are bigger and more solid than bunnies. Those exit wounds were inside 80m. Out at 140m odd, the exit wounding was more like 1".

This wallaby was shot under permit at around 80m with VarmintR 50gn with a full load of BM2 behind it. Estimated 3000-3100fps.

B&T-terminal-effect.jpg (472.02 KiB) Viewed 3491 times

and here's a pretty picture i took for Brendan of the VarmintR loaded into 223rem.

Web 01.jpg (167.33 KiB) Viewed 3491 times

[Bills Shed]

Cheers for that, sounds like they might be a bit of overkill for the 50 - 100m bunnys and foxes i generally shoot with the .222

Not that they are over kill, they do what they are meant to do on light game. There is no question as to the hit or if the projectile did its job. There is little chance of ricochet, but if the shot is low or misplaced do not expect to salvage the meat.
Within their limits they are exceptional.
Bill

[Gregg]

Cheers for that, sounds like they might be a bit of overkill for the 50 - 100m bunnys and foxes i generally shoot with the .222

Well it depends.

Do you want to kill the fox, or send a message to the other foxes

[Farmjer]

Tell the other foxes what you saw here!

[Bills Shed]

[quote="brett1868"]
I'd be curious to know if a 22Mag case could be formed into a VLD for 22-250....that would be interesting [/quote

Just to add an up date, I do not know about a VLD but the .22 mag jacket can be drawn and made into a nice flat base. In this case a 69gn open tip.

[Bren]

I'd be curious to know if a 22Mag case could be formed into a VLD for 22-250....that would be interesting [/quote

Just to add an up date, I do not know about a VLD but the .22 mag jacket can be drawn and made into a nice flat base. In this case a 69gn open tip.

They make really nice ULDs as well Bill but getting hold of magnum cases is a more difficult proposition.
that being said I worked out if I could get enough HMR shells and cut them off at the shoulder with a mini drop saw you can make really nice frangible 80 and 90 gr FBOTs.


BT