Dirty 9mm reloads, what am I doing wrong?

[Hollywood]

Back to the range with fresh 3.8gn loads today. No feed issues at all (I've never had any feed issues with the M&P other than the 3.2gn loads yesterday). Accuracy was fine, very good actually, but still a very dirty trigger finger after 100 rounds. There's no powder left after firing.

[Hollywood]

While I'm here, what's the best way you've found to get the lead out of the barrel. This is my barrel after todays effort. These copper coated projectiles aren't too bad but the straight lead ones I've used in the past were terrible, after 200rounds I couldn't even see the rifling in the barrel!

[brett1868]

A good swabbing with solvent, let it sit for 10-15 mins to soak in then hit it with the brush and repeat 2-3 times if required. Alternatively, after shooting lead try and finish off with a mag of JHP or FMJ ammo to clean the lead out. On the big rifles I have some brass VLD rounds that I use to clean out copper fouling. Same principle applies to handguns, use a harder metal to remove the softer one. Copper is easy enough to clean with a good copper solvent.

[Hollywood]

Thanks brett1868, appreciate the advice on this thread. I'm struggling to get the fouling out of the concave sections of the rifling without physically scraping it out from the muzzle end. What solvent are you using?

[brett1868]

Thanks brett1868, appreciate the advice on this thread. I'm struggling to get the fouling out of the concave sections of the rifling without physically scraping it out from the muzzle end. What solvent are you using?

I start with Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber which comes in a big spray can, liberal spray in the chamber / bore and let it sit for 10-15min before giving it a good scrubbing with a bronze brush, I do this a couple times if required. Any of the better bore solvents will work just as well, Hoppe's No.9 is good and can be purchased in 500ml bottles. If my OCD kicks in I'll put the barrel into a plastic bottle filled with No.9 and then put that in the big ultrasonic cleaner. Set the temp to 35c and give it a 20min bath...give it a wipe down and oiling brings it up like new. I've got a dirty barrel at home so if I get time tonight I'll do some before and after pictures using a bore cam so you can see the results up close.

[Hollywood]

I'm using Hoppe's No.9 but still struggling to remove the stuff in the grooves.

[Hollywood]

Back to the range today with the same 135gn projectiles but upped the charge to the maximum recommended charge of 4.2gn.

Accuracy was fine, cases were clean and my finger was substantially cleaner than the previous attempts at lower charges. Might stick with that for the moment.

Left target is 10 rounds at about 10m and the right one is 20 rounds at 25m.

[brett1868]

Spent the best part of the past 2 hours scrubbing 3 pistol barrels and took some before and after pictures. Both the barrels below were using the same load of TopScore 122gr coated LRN pushed by 4.4Gr of AP70. Both barrels showed similar amounts of lead fouling and took different amounts of scrubbing to get clean. A shot of bore scrubber followed by a bronze brushing then patched dry to get the rough off. Several mopping's of Hoppe's No.9 with a good scrubbing in between. A bore scope is both good and bad, it's good at showing how bad you clean a barrel.

Beretta M9A3 Before

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Beretta M9A3 After

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Walther PPQ Q5 Before

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Walther PPQ Q5 After

PICT0034.JPG (26.63 KiB) Viewed 6615 times

[Hollywood]

Maybe I need to spend some more time on my barrels. I just can't seem to move the fouling that is in the photo I posted above. I can pick it up with a jewellers screwdriver but a bronze brush just seems to pass over it.

[brett1868]

Don't be afraid to soak the barrel in Hoppe's for an hour or 2 before brushing, maybe time for a new brush?

[Drew]

The stove pipe problems with the 3.2gn loads are just from the light load not having enough recoil to cycle the action properly. Mine starts to stove pipe at 3.2gn of AP70 also. I use the 125gn round nose beveled base RNBB projectiles with 3.4gn of AP70. Nice light load recoil wise but with my 5" barrel it gives me 1200fps which well and truly makes power factor. Cycles fine but can stove pipe again if let to get too dirty. The winchester 60rnd bulk pack 9mm is 124 or 125gn round nose with 3.5gn of AP70. As for removing lead from the barrel I bought a roll of fine steel wool from burnings (lasts forever) wrap a bit around an old brass brush so it is slightly tight in the bore. Put plenty of oil on it and scrub the bore with it. Then a tight dry patch. Just a few passes and the jobs done. Then finish with a few passes of a brass brush and a dry patch or an oiled patch if storing for awhile. I do this on all my guns I shoot cast bullets out of.

[Drew]

Also make sure your flaring your cases enough so your no shaving the coating off the bullet when seating.

[Hollywood]

OK, maybe I need to flare some more then as I am shaving lead off on a lot of the rounds when I seat the projectile.

[bluerob]

Thanks brett1868, appreciate the advice on this thread. I'm struggling to get the fouling out of the concave sections of the rifling without physically scraping it out from the muzzle end. What solvent are you using?

Get some LeadAway.

I've run patches that come out clean (using Hoppes No 9 etc).

Then ran a patch of LeadAway through. With what came out, you'd think the gun had never been cleaned!

The 3.3 load that I mentioned, is using AP50, not AP70. I'm running 138gn Round nose pills, god knows how many times the brass has been loaded (I look for cracks etc - alot of time on my hands). This is with a Sig X5. My H&K USP eats anything, but, the Sig prefers round nose. Can't get decent groups with anything different.

Its amazing as to the variance with so many different issues affecting different pistols. You never stop learning with this hobby.

[brett1868]

Thanks brett1868, appreciate the advice on this thread. I'm struggling to get the fouling out of the concave sections of the rifling without physically scraping it out from the muzzle end. What solvent are you using?

Get some LeadAway.

I've run patches that come out clean (using Hoppes No 9 etc).

Then ran a patch of LeadAway through. With what came out, you'd think the gun had never been cleaned!

The 3.3 load that I mentioned, is using AP50, not AP70. I'm running 138gn Round nose pills, god knows how many times the brass has been loaded (I look for cracks etc - alot of time on my hands). This is with a Sig X5. My H&K USP eats anything, but, the Sig prefers round nose. Can't get decent groups with anything different.

Its amazing as to the variance with so many different issues affecting different pistols. You never stop learning with this hobby.

This the Birchwood Casey Cloths" Cut into a patch? or something different?
Maybe these?
http://www.db-shootingsupplies.com.au/kleenbore-lead-away-patches/

[bluerob]

Thanks brett1868, appreciate the advice on this thread. I'm struggling to get the fouling out of the concave sections of the rifling without physically scraping it out from the muzzle end. What solvent are you using?

Get some LeadAway.

I've run patches that come out clean (using Hoppes No 9 etc).

Then ran a patch of LeadAway through. With what came out, you'd think the gun had never been cleaned!

The 3.3 load that I mentioned, is using AP50, not AP70. I'm running 138gn Round nose pills, god knows how many times the brass has been loaded (I look for cracks etc - alot of time on my hands). This is with a Sig X5. My H&K USP eats anything, but, the Sig prefers round nose. Can't get decent groups with anything different.

Its amazing as to the variance with so many different issues affecting different pistols. You never stop learning with this hobby.

This the Birchwood Casey Cloths" Cut into a patch? or something different?
Maybe these?
http://www.db-shootingsupplies.com.au/kleenbore-lead-away-patches/

Brett, I use the exact brand that you've linked to. I think Kleen Bore and Birchwood Casey both make a lead removing cloth. You can either purchase patches already cut or buy a sheet and cut your own to size.

Honestly, if you haven't used this stuff after shooting lead projectiles, you'll be very surprised with what comes out on the patch, even after repeated use of typical firearm cleaners.

[brett1868]

I cut a strip and wrapped it around an old brush before scrubbing a barrel I "thought" was clean....Took several strips of lead remover cloth and some scrubbing to remove all traces of lead. I dry patched it after each scrubbing and checked with the bore scope for any remaining deposits so I could scrub that specific area. Next experiment will be to shoot some lead and check the barrel with the bore scope then shoot some jacketed rounds and see if it removes the lead cause its far easier to clean copper then to scrub lead.

IMG_2341.JPG (252.28 KiB) Viewed 3192 times

[bluerob]

Brett, my cleaning procedure for pistol (I only shoot lead projectiles as jacket ammo and FMJ aren't allowed at my club):

1. Wet patch of Hoppes or similar (I've got every brand known...) using cleaner tip that has brass scrubber incorporated.
2. Leave for 5 mins
3. Dry patch
4. Lead remover patch
5. Dry patch
6. Lead patch again
7. Dry patch till clean

Oil the required areas or spray G96 everywhere.....

I use a similar method to above for rifle, but Sweets get used.

Sorry for hijacking thread....

[Hollywood]

Sorry for hijacking thread....

Not all mate, it's all very interesting. I've finally got my Lee Pro 1000 set up. Am having the typical primer feed issues but it's still much faster than my single stage! It appears I may not have been flaring anywhere near enough, the Pro 1000 is setup with a much bigger flare and the projectiles are seating a lot more smoothly without shaving any lead off.

[Hollywood]

Does anyone know of a shop that has the Lead Away cloth in stock, I can't find it anywhere.

[bluerob]

Does anyone know of a shop that has the Lead Away cloth in stock, I can't find it anywhere.

Dbshootingsupplies.com.au usually has alot of what pistol users need. Great service and pricing (no, I aint connected).

Also, get rid of the Lee 1000 if you can. I had one once. Drove me insane. Admittedly, I did reload thousands of rounds on it, but, I hated the powder thrower. That bloody chain and those cups that you have to use. I get nightmares thinking about that damned thing.

Bought a Dillon 1050 and its the only way to reload. Yep, they cost a heap more, but, with good reason. My best mate uses a Dillon 650 which is a cheaper option and basically does the same thing.

[Hollywood]

A Dillon is out of my price range at the moment, well until tax time anyway! The Lee is working for the moment and so far it's only the primer feed that's giving me grief. I've actually found the powder thrower to be very accurate and hasn't let me down as yet, I do have some chain and a spring for when the Lee chain breaks though.

[bluerob]

A Dillon is out of my price range at the moment, well until tax time anyway! The Lee is working for the moment and so far it's only the primer feed that's giving me grief. I've actually found the powder thrower to be very accurate and hasn't let me down as yet, I do have some chain and a spring for when the Lee chain breaks though.

Funny that. I never had any dramas with primers (apart from dropping them) when I owned the Lee 1000. Powder thrower was a bastard until I modified it.

Yep, Dillon aint cheap (the 1050 is considered to be a commercial level press), but, it'll last me until I kick the bucket.

I did plan on shooting alot more than I do (hence the 1050 buy). Maybe one day....