Before I start reloading - Questions for the experts

[brenton_]

Hi All,

I've been doing lots of reading on reloading and am thinking about giving it a go.

I don't shoot a ridiculous amount but enough I feel to justify the costs saving over time and the accuracy benefits.

I plan on reloading .308 and .30-06 and was thinking about the following setup. Any advice on the list below would be appreciated, especially if i have missed anything.

Press - Lee Breech Lock Challenger Kit $170 (eBay). Includes Die Bushing, scale, powder measure, funnel, chamfer tool, hand primer, primer pocket cleaner.

Dies - Lee Deluxe Rifle Reloading Die Set (in .308 and .30-06) (approx $75 each) My question here is about the Dead Length Seating die supplied here. Does this die crimp as well as seat the bullet? from what I've read others recommend buying the factory crimp die. Would it be best to purchase the factory crimp die by Lee also (this means 4 dies in total per caliber). Could anyone explain this further to me?

My understanding would be to use the Full length die for new brass, then just the collet die for future reloads, the dead length seating die to seat (and NOT crimp the bullet here - do you simply loosen the top of this die all the way so it doesn't crimp the bullet at all, or do you remove the top completely?) and finally use the factory crimp die to finish the process.

Case Trimmer - I was thinking something like the Lyman Universal Case Trimmer ($130 from eBay). Are there any cheaper alternatives to this? Or is it best to buy something quality for the trimmer? I read that the Lee kit also includes a "cutter and lock stud to trim your cases". Does this mean that I don't need to get a dedicated case trimmer like the Lyman or would the Lee supplied one not be sufficient (not even sure how it works?)

Brass cleaner - SmartReloader Dream Tumbler S787 ($100)

Breech Lock Bushings (how many depends on how many dies I need)

Measuring Calipers - Hornady Digital Caliper ($52)
I've heard to spend more here? Can anyone recommend this one?

Headspace Guage - .308 + .30-06 ($40 each)
Do you guys find these necessary? Might give me more piece of mind as a newbie?


Any comments on what I've listed would be appreciated, especially any answers I can get on the questions above and also if I've missed anything.

Thanks

[Lorgar]

Hey mate,

Dead Length Seating die - Does not crimp the bullets in place. Pretty sure this die is not intended for crimping at all?

You're on the right track about setting the die for crimping (or not) though. I use the RCBS dies, to set them you put a trimmed case in the press, raise it to its full height then screw the die down till it touches. If you don't want to crimp the brass, you raise the die a turn from the touching point. If you do want to crimp it you lower it the required amount.

If you're looking to crimp you'll need other dies.

Case trimmer - I used the Lee Precision case trimmer with the shell holder which goes in a power drill. Don't know if you know the one, but this is it



For the shell holder, case length cage and cutter it's about $25 per cartridge you're loading. Cheaper and faster than any other, works great IMO.

Calipers - $35 pair from Bunnings is working fine for me.

Headspace Gauge - Personally I don't bother.

Hope that helps.

[Norton]

My understanding would be to use the Full length die for new brass, then just the collet die for future reloads, the dead length seating die to seat (and NOT crimp the bullet here - do you simply loosen the top of this die all the way so it doesn't crimp the bullet at all, or do you remove the top completely?) and finally use the factory crimp die to finish the process.

There are two basic schools of through on sizing.

One, is full length size every time for consistency.

The other is fire form your brass to your chamber an only neck resize from then on out.

Either way is fine, but people have their preferences...

[Blackened]

I don't shoot a ridiculous amount but enough I feel to justify the costs saving over time and the accuracy benefits.

It doesn't take long. With 2 thirty cals you only need to so a couple of hundred rounds and it's paid for itself.

About your other questions...

Crimping can either be done in while seating as Lorgar explained with the RCBS dies, or you can seat and crimp in two stages.

Crimping isn't essential though. What projectiles are you planning on using? Plenty of loads simply wont require it, so you may be able to skip this all together.

A tumbler is a tumbler. They're big all small but they do the same thing. Smart Reloader will be as good as any other.

Headspace gauge can be good. To start with though checking your loads and fired brass for any signs of problems should keep you in good shape without one for a while.

[Grrzrr]

One thing to find out if you can ahead of time if possible is what you can expect from the dies and your intended bullets.

Depending on the die and bullet you're seating, some dies can leave an imprint around the bullet. Not good for your BC...

A mate of mine used Hornady dies for a time for his .308, but changed brands after a while because the dies where making an indent around the bullet.

Swapped to Redding dies and now there isn't a mark. Can't speak for the Lee dies, but just some info for you...

[BBJ]

Welcome to an all consuming hobby

Theories great, but nothing beats doing.

Take care when you start, you'll muck a few up but that's how you learn.

Sizing and seating are usually the two areas where things most often go wrong. Thorough reading of the instructions is in order here.

[Monty]

A good reloading manual should be in your list too.

The Speers Bullets one is good IMO.

[brenton_]

Thanks everyone for great info. Didn't expect such a quick response from an Australian forum!

@Lorgar, thanks! That Lee drill adapted solution is exactly what I was hoping for (and not to hand out $140 for a trimmer!)

@Norton, So in theory I only need to ever full resize new brass or brass that I'm unsure of? If I was reusing my own brass I wouldn't ever need to do another full resize for the life of it?

Also, do you guys find you only need to trim brass that is new/been used a lot? If i was to check a whole bag of brass for size and trim accordingly, would I need to check it again each time or only every few times?

@Blackened - Thanks for the info, I think I'll be going with the Lee dies, so there would be 4 altogether (full size/decapping, Collet(neck resize)/decapper, bullet seater and crimp die) - with the full size only being used for new brass (if that's correct?)

In terms of projectiles/powder, I haven't researched too heavily on these yet, I wanted to get the basics down pat to see if it was feasible for me to give it a go. I was thinking about trying Hornady 165gr SST with ADI AR2206H (41gr) or AR2208 (42gr), as per the ADI Rifle data for .308

Any thoughts on this combo and which powder is best to start?

@Grrzrr - Thanks for the heads up, I'll try and find some info on the quality of Lee dies (I'm hoping they are fine..)

@BBJ - You're right, although I'm someone who likes to really plan things out before I dive in and I really don't want to get this stuff wrong!

@Monty - I've read The ABC's of reloading as a starting point and I think I'll need to pick something like this up. If I'm looking at using ADI powder, would there be any other places to cross reference my info from their website seeing as they're Australian?

[reddog]

If you get Nick Harveys Practical Reloading manual it has a lot of information on how to set everything up
Also a lot more different powders and bullet types than most manuals.
Also our australian reloading legend

[horter]

If you get Nick Harveys Practical Reloading manual it has a lot of information on how to set everything up
Also a lot more different powders and bullet types than most manuals.

Yep, a good reloading manual is a must.

There are plenty of little intricacies or pitfalls you wont see watching youtube videos or whatever. You'll be amazed how much information is actually in a good book.

[Aster]

Thanks everyone for great info. Didn't expect such a quick response from an Australian forum!

Plenty of active members here mate. Post your questions and you'll have half a dozen responses on the day.

@Norton, So in theory I only need to ever full resize new brass or brass that I'm unsure of? If I was reusing my own brass I wouldn't ever need to do another full resize for the life of it?

Needs to be the same brass in the same rifle, not just "your brass". If you have 2 different rifles they're chambers will be slightly different and once the brass is fire formed in one, it wont match the other. You would need to full length resize if doing this. If you're only using it on one rifle though, then neck sizing is fine.

Also, do you guys find you only need to trim brass that is new/been used a lot? If i was to check a whole bag of brass for size and trim accordingly, would I need to check it again each time or only every few times?

Will depend entirely on your load. A light load may extend the case neck 1/10th of a mm. A hot load may extend the case neck by a full mm

@Blackened - Thanks for the info, I think I'll be going with the Lee dies, so there would be 4 altogether (full size/decapping, Collet(neck resize)/decapper, bullet seater and crimp die) - with the full size only being used for new brass (if that's correct?)

See the above comments on brass and sizing, but if you're buying new brass for 1 rifle, I'd just fire it as is. If you pick up some second hand or other brass, FLS it before hand.

In terms of projectiles/powder, I haven't researched too heavily on these yet, I wanted to get the basics down pat to see if it was feasible for me to give it a go. I was thinking about trying Hornady 165gr SST with ADI AR2206H (41gr) or AR2208 (42gr), as per the ADI Rifle data for .308 Any thoughts on this combo and which powder is best to start?

It will be entirely up to your rifle, any advice on loads that work well in other rifles won't mean anything for you. You'll need to work up your own.

@Monty - I've read The ABC's of reloading as a starting point and I think I'll need to pick something like this up. If I'm looking at using ADI powder, would there be any other places to cross reference my info from their website seeing as they're Australian?

ADI is very widely adopted. Pretty much every load data source/reloading manual will reference ADI powders.

[brenton_]

Thanks Aster,

Another question came to mind about dies. Does the full length sizing die re-size the neck as well? If so, this would mean with new brass or brass I haven't used before in my rifle I only ever need to use 3 dies, being the full length sizing/decapper > seating die > crimping die and when reusing this same brass again I just use the collet sizing/decapper > seating die > crimp die.

I'll be grabbing a copy of Nick Harvey's Practical Reloading manual and give it a read through.

[Baldrick314]

Thanks Aster,

Another question came to mind about dies. Does the full length sizing die re-size the neck as well? If so, this would mean with new brass or brass I haven't used before in my rifle I only ever need to use 3 dies, being the full length sizing/decapper > seating die > crimping die and when reusing this same brass again I just use the collet sizing/decapper > seating die > crimp die.

I'll be grabbing a copy of Nick Harvey's Practical Reloading manual and give it a read through.

Full length die sizes neck as well. In regards to an earlier comment you made about using a load from a loading manual, I highly recommend developing a load for your rifle otherwise you probably won't get the most accuracy from your rifle.

[brenton_]

Again, the more I think about things the more questions I have!

.. So I was watching this video below (hopefully I can link here?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRRgk1Ik7Po

After watching the guy screw the top screw tighter to seat the bullet deeper, how do you know when the bullet is set at the correct size? Is there a place to find the desired overall length of the bullet? Or do you simply seat it at half way and then take it out and measure to make sure it doesn't exceed the maximum limit for .308 (for example). I have seen Casing OverAll Length (COAL/COL) mentioned, where do you find this information for a specific projectile? e.g. how do I know the COAL for say the Hornady 165gr SST in .30cal when making a .308 round?

I understand that the casings have a tolerance measurement that the casing could fall within, but how do you determine what the overall size of the round should be and how far to seat the bullet in the press?

Again, thanks guys for answering these questions!

[Aster]

After watching the guy screw the top screw tighter to seat the bullet deeper, how do you know when the bullet is set at the correct size?

There are 2 parts to the die.

The first bit of the video shows the body of the die being set at the right height for the brass. The "adjusting screw" he mentions is what sets the depth of the bullet. With the die set to the brass, but the adjusting screw turned all the way out, it wouldn't seat the bullet at all.

Is there a place to find the desired overall length of the bullet? Or do you simply seat it at half way and then take it out and measure to make sure it doesn't exceed the maximum limit for .308 (for example).

Standard specs such as max COAL will be in any reloading manual. If you've done your reading you'll have read that ideally you want your bullet to be just of the lands? To work out what's perfect for your rifle, you'll need to to testing. It probably won't be the textbook max COAL.

I have seen Casing OverAll Length (COAL/COL) mentioned, where do you find this information for a specific projectile? e.g. how do I know the COAL for say the Hornady 165gr SST in .30cal when making a .308 round?

You won't find it for a specific projectile and rifle because this will be different for every gun. You'll have to work it out for your rifle by adjusting the seating depths till you find the right one.

[Baldrick314]

how do I know the COAL for say the Hornady 165gr SST in .30cal when making a .308 round?

I understand that the casings have a tolerance measurement that the casing could fall within, but how do you determine what the overall size of the round should be and how far to seat the bullet in the press?

Again, thanks guys for answering these questions!

This is a tool for finding the maximum OAL specific to your rifle:

http://m.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load- ... ght-1Each/

There is a method for doing the same thing using a cleaning rod but it's awkward to explain without stepping through it in person lol.

You'll probably find your chamber can handle longer rounds then your magazine can so you'll have to decide which measurement you want to load to

[Fujix]

Take the plunge brenton_.

Plenty to figure out as you go along

[brenton_]

Cheers for the help again guys.

OK to save me from endless analysis and going crazy over the smaller things (I would rather just follow the basics first and see how far I go from there), I think my plan would be to simply consult reloading data on the net, for example using the COL given by certain reloading guides and follow their data to begin with. Once I am comfortable I can start playing with the COL.

If I'm to do it this way, I would simply take the overall COL from the loading data (say 2.8" just as e.g.) then just keep seating the bullet until I get this length and then just leave the die set for that load.

I know I'm fussing over the details here.. I just don't want to make any stupid mistakes with something that has the potential to be pretty dangerous.

Also if i can't find data on ADI powder, is it safe to use this as a reference (e.g. between IMR and ADI powders )
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloade ... alents.asp

[Baldrick314]

Cheers for the help again guys.

OK to save me from endless analysis and going crazy over the smaller things (I would rather just follow the basics first and see how far I go from there), I think my plan would be to simply consult reloading data on the net, for example using the COL given by certain reloading guides and follow their data to begin with. Once I am comfortable I can start playing with the COL.

If I'm to do it this way, I would simply take the overall COL from the loading data (say 2.8" just as e.g.) then just keep seating the bullet until I get this length and then just leave the die set for that load.

I know I'm fussing over the details here.. I just don't want to make any stupid mistakes with something that has the potential to be pretty dangerous.

Also if i can't find data on ADI powder, is it safe to use this as a reference (e.g. between IMR and ADI powders )
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloade ... alents.asp

Using the SAAMI standard overall length would be safe. Next time you're in a gunshop get a copy of the ADI powder manual. It has suggested loads for most popular calibres. They will give you a range of powder charge weights for each powder for a given projectile weight (eg for 150gr .308 using AR2006H they recommend 43-45.5gr)

When using these always start at the bottom load. When I'm doing load development I start at the lowest listed charge weight and make 5 rounds the make another 5 identical but with .5gr more powder and continue till you've reached maximum load. Then shoot them in groups of 5 and whatever the tightest group is your load

[brenton_]

Using the SAAMI standard overall length would be safe. Next time you're in a gunshop get a copy of the ADI powder manual. It has suggested loads for most popular calibres. They will give you a range of powder charge weights for each powder for a given projectile weight (eg for 150gr .308 using AR2006H they recommend 43-45.5gr)

When using these always start at the bottom load. When I'm doing load development I start at the lowest listed charge weight and make 5 rounds the make another 5 identical but with .5gr more powder and continue till you've reached maximum load. Then shoot them in groups of 5 and whatever the tightest group is your load

Ok so just to be clear (I am struggling with the concept of this) when you say using the SAAMI standard, you mean as long as my COL is under 2.810 inches long (and as long as it loads in the magazine fine). So just for example sake if I just aim for an COL of 2.8 inches to get me started, it would be ok?

I just want something to start with to get me going.. Maybe I'm not getting something here.. Do I basically just have to make sure my COL falls within SAAMI standards and I'm fine.. But then when I start searching for further accuracy I play with the COL..

Thanks for the patience guys, I know these questions might sounds silly..

[reddog]

If you get Nick Harveys Practical Reloading manual it has a lot of information on how to set everything up
Also a lot more different powders and bullet types than most manuals.
Also our australian reloading legend

I really recommend you get this book it will answer all of your questions 9th edition is the newest one
Good Luck its good fun when you get it worked out

[Aster]

Good Luck its good fun when you get it worked out

Fun sprinkled with maddening frustration

[Baldrick314]

Using the SAAMI standard overall length would be safe. Next time you're in a gunshop get a copy of the ADI powder manual. It has suggested loads for most popular calibres. They will give you a range of powder charge weights for each powder for a given projectile weight (eg for 150gr .308 using AR2006H they recommend 43-45.5gr)

When using these always start at the bottom load. When I'm doing load development I start at the lowest listed charge weight and make 5 rounds the make another 5 identical but with .5gr more powder and continue till you've reached maximum load. Then shoot them in groups of 5 and whatever the tightest group is your load

Ok so just to be clear (I am struggling with the concept of this) when you say using the SAAMI standard, you mean as long as my COL is under 2.810 inches long (and as long as it loads in the magazine fine). So just for example sake if I just aim for an COL of 2.8 inches to get me started, it would be ok?

I just want something to start with to get me going.. Maybe I'm not getting something here.. Do I basically just have to make sure my COL falls within SAAMI standards and I'm fine.. But then when I start searching for further accuracy I play with the COL..

Thanks for the patience guys, I know these questions might sounds silly..

Questions are good, never be sorry for asking questions. Yeah 2.810 is the maximum SAAMI length for .308. If you load to this length your loads will fit in any .308 chamber/ magazine

[The Brass]

If you load to this length your loads will fit in any .308 chamber/ magazine

Unless your magazine isn't long enough

No idea why some rifle makes make mags shorter than standard cartridge max COAL.