Lever Re-loads - To gas check or not to gas check...

[bladeracer]

That could be a problem with 2205

Depends on the cartridge.
I've loaded 8x57mm down to 20gns of 2206H at 1050fps with 180's with no problems.
A maximum charge is around 46gns of 2206H.

I used to load my .222 subsonic with 40gn bullets and IMR4198 but I have no idea what the charge weights were now.

[Oldbloke]

Very light loads with slow burning powders are not recomended. (This includes loads significantly less than the recomended starting loads) These can, although rare result in very high pressure and destruction of the firearm, potentually causing serious injuries to the shooter. Tailboss or fast burning powders are a safer option.
I believe light loads of 2206H would fall into this catagory. Suggest you contact ADI for further info and to confirm it is a safe load prior to using.

[bladeracer]

Very light loads with slow burning powders are not recomended. (This includes loads significantly less than the recomended starting loads) These can, although rare result in very high pressure and destruction of the firearm, potentually causing serious injuries to the shooter. Tailboss or fast burning powders are a safer option.
I believe light loads of 2206H would fall into this catagory. Suggest you contact ADI for further info and to confirm it is a safe load prior to using.

That's why I prefaced it with "depends on the cartridge". If he's shooting a big-bore, high-velocity cartridge for example I probably wouldn't load it down too extreme with anything other than Trailboss. If he's shooting 45/70 then I doubt he'd have problems loading it down to 1400fps.
I'm shooting 2206H, Pete is shooting 2205 which is significantly faster.
I prefer Trailboss as well as it requires less powder for the same velocity - 14gns of TB gets me 1400fps in comparison.

When I had my .222 I only had IMR4198 powder so I used it for the entire velocity envelope, and I think 4198 is a similar burn rate to AR2206H?

[Oldbloke]

Yep, just saying. It depends on a few variables. This is a copy paste straight out of the ADI Reloafing manual safety section. An email to ADI wouldnt hurt. One more point, it doesnt happn very often so the loads might be ok for ages then the 131st goes bad.


"20.Take special care when working up trial loads with slow burning powders in large calibre cartridges. Light loads in some calibres may produce occasional dangerously high pressures. It is suggested that minimum loads in large calibre cartridges should not be reduced below about 75% case capacity."

[Gamerancher]

That could be a problem with 2205

No it wont. 2205 is a relatively fast burning powder. 18gr of 2205 behind anything from 210gr and heavier will be 1600f/s and under. It is notorious for leaving un-burnt powder behind but this can be mitigated to a degree by crimping and tends not to affect accuracy anyway. Be careful with you C.O.L as lever guns will jam if the cartridge is too long. The loaded round will be too long for the elevator to lift up from the magazine. I've been shooting cast bullets out of a .44mag in lever-gun silhouette since we started shooting it in 2008 and found that hard cast bullets kept under 1700f/s will shoot just fine without gaschecks. I'd give the 300 grainers a miss though, more suited to .444 Marlin. 240 grainers shoot well in most .44mag lever guns I've seen.
I've had good results with Trail-boss and AS-30 also.

[bladeracer]

Yep, just saying. It depends on a few variables. This is a copy paste straight out of the ADI Reloafing manual safety section. An email to ADI wouldnt hurt. One more point, it doesnt happn very often so the loads might be ok for ages then the 131st goes bad.


"20.Take special care when working up trial loads with slow burning powders in large calibre cartridges. Light loads in some calibres may produce occasional dangerously high pressures. It is suggested that minimum loads in large calibre cartridges should not be reduced below about 75% case capacity."

Whether you're working loads up or down, always watch for pressure signs.

[bigpete]

I'll be loading a 44 mag. I've got Trailboss which will be too slow for the 300 grainers. I think I'll just stick with my current loading practice of Trailboss for my 225 grainers and 2205 for my prospective 300 grainers. Adi manual gives me around 1400fps for a 300gn bullet and around 19gn 2205. Barrel twist is meant to be 1/30 which is supposed to be OK for 300gn projectiles

[Oldbloke]

The effect is called detonation or the Secondary Explosion Effect and there are a few theories around if you do the google. A

"Depends on the cartridge.
I've loaded 8x57mm down to 20gns of 2206H at 1050fps with 180's with no problems.
A maximum charge is around 46gns of 2206H."


20gr of 2206H is about 43% of case capacity using a medium to slow powder so this load could be a contender for an SEE. ADI recommends no less that 75% of case capacity as I posted last night.

Ive just dropped in a pic and a link to some further info below. FYI Also In these situations often there is no warning or pressure signs prior to the event.

http://reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

Detonation pic

Explosive detonation.jpeg (38.52 KiB) Viewed 2468 times

[bladeracer]

The effect is called detonation or the Secondary Explosion Effect and there are a few theories around if you do the google.

"Depends on the cartridge.
I've loaded 8x57mm down to 20gns of 2206H at 1050fps with 180's with no problems.
A maximum charge is around 46gns of 2206H.

I used to load my .222 subsonic with 40gn bullets and IMR4198 but I have no idea what the charge weights were now."

20gr of 2206H is well under 50% of a medium to slow powder so could be a contender for an SEE. ADI recommends no less that 75% of case capacity as I posted last night.

Ive just dropped in a pic and a link to some further info below.

http://reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

Explosive detonation.jpeg

I am well aware of the potential problem thanks OldBloke
As I said, I don't shoot this as a regular load since Trailboss works so much better with even less powder.
But unless you try it yourself you're not going to learn much just going with the accepted flow.
If you want to try lighter loads take the same precautions as you do pushing maximum loads. I can't think of any cartridge that I haven't managed to load above the "maximums listed" without major problems. Most start to lose accuracy approaching the maximums though so there's no reason to run them that hot. Except the .204 with the 24gn NTX - it just seems to get more and more accurate the faster I push it. The 32's, 39's and 40's don't need to run hot for best accuracy.

In the .204, ADI lists the maximum for AR2206H behind the 24gn NTX is a compressed 29.5gn charge. My standard load is 30.0gn and I have had no problems with pressures at all, the brass only needing trimming after six loads or more. 30.0gn actually piles _above_ the case mouth unless I trickle it into the brass from a few inches height. I've shot approximately 210 of these hot loads so far with the same brass, primers are still tight and unflattened, and the new Norma brass has never been full-length sized or cleaned. The same brass has also fired heaps of 32gn, 39gn and 40gn loads.

Load data is only recommendations based on somebody else's testing.
The only way to know what your specific firearm is capable of is by your own testing.
I would not recommend anybody start their load development at 30gns, but I also don't think people should look at the maximums as a concrete wall that can't be crossed.

If you're really concerned about light charges you also have the option of using a case filler.