A question about 7.62 x 54r

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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by Supaduke » 11 Nov 2016, 5:44 am

Thanks for doing that JS. It makes sense it would be .310 . The bore diameter is .300 . By all reports, the groove diameter varied from .309 to .312 so it would seem they settled on a safe middle ground to accommodate sloppy barrel tolerances. Hopefully I get lucky and get a good shooter.

The internet makes me laugh sometimes. It reminds me of the scene in 'The Matrix' where they plug the probe into keanu reeves head, he has a little fit, then pops his eyes open and....

"I know Kung Fu!!"

I feel I know a bit about Mosins now
Who doesn't love an armchair expert ;)
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by TheDude » 11 Nov 2016, 1:45 pm

Gotta love the mosin nagant. I've got a Finnish capture Tula 91/30 and a Chinese type 53 (M44 clone).
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by bladeracer » 11 Nov 2016, 4:17 pm

Coincidentally, I stopped by a place this arvo just in case they might've had some 6.5x52mm surplus ammo on the shelf, and spotted an M91 Mosin Nagant on the rack. I might have to get in again tomorrow and grab it :-)
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by juststarting » 11 Nov 2016, 4:25 pm

"Coincidentally"
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by bladeracer » 11 Nov 2016, 4:30 pm

juststarting wrote:"Coincidentally"


Honest, I was just glancing across the racks while he was looking through his ammo.
I spotted a sporterised .303, then an M38 Swede...and then the Mosin. Didn't notice any others after that :-)
Still chasing a 6.5mm Arisaka though.
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by juststarting » 11 Nov 2016, 4:42 pm

Hey, I don't judge, I go to fun shops just to buy something. s**t, I don't even know what until I am there. Who am I to judge.
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by bladeracer » 11 Nov 2016, 4:54 pm

juststarting wrote:Hey, I don't judge, I go to fun shops just to buy something. s**t, I don't even know what until I am there. Who am I to judge.



I only go to one gun shop when I have to pick up a rifle or powder, primers or ammo.
I almost never drop into shops just to browse. I prefer to find out what I want and then just get it :-)
For that reason, I guess it seems far more of a coincidence than it might to somebody that hangs out at gun shops every week ;-)

I also found a guy today that can supply me with brass and copper rod so I can make my own bullets on the lathe, picking up some stock next week.
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by Supaduke » 11 Nov 2016, 6:51 pm

I have to admit I don't find the Mosin the most handsome rifle. My no.4 I think is the most handsome of milsurp rifles. But damn I have to respect mozzies, the history behind them is amazing.

The one I'm getting is a 1941 from izhveck (I know I spelt that wrong) so it's more than likely it saw some action. Most probably the battle of Stalingrad. It's 30 years older than me and I feel I can give it a nice retirement. It will be cared for and treated kindly. Can't have a milsurp collection without a mozzie.

And I too am guilty of occasionally going to a gun shop for no real reason other than an urge to buy something. I always peruse the gun racks. I find as I am getting older I have more interest in old and classic firearms.

I keep looking at the front stuffers...one day I will dive in.
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by Heckler303 » 11 Nov 2016, 7:56 pm

Mosins serve their purpose well.


No other rifle can be substituted as a fencepost as well as a mosin.


(no hard feelings JS, still making it through full-length resizing those cases :D )
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by reloader762 » 12 Dec 2016, 3:43 am

I have a couple of Mosin rifles,my M44 is a 1945 round receiver Izhevsk refurb & my 91/30 is a 1933 HEX receiver Tula stock only referb both of which I ended up doing a cork bedding and stock refinish on.

The M44 has a .312" groove bore while the 91/30 has a .313" groove bore. On a scale of 1 to 5,1 being an excellent bore and 5 being the worst I rate both of mine according to pics I've seen at a 2 the rifling is strong and the bore is nice an smooth. I've only shot surplus and component jacketed bullets I reload in the M44. I have several types of surplus ammo Bulgarian old brass case light & heavy ball ammo made back in the mid 50's which doesn't shoot well at all in the M44 as is,bullet dia. is at .310" and it's loaded fairly hot. I ended up breaking down most of it an either reducing the charge weight by 2.0 grs. resizing the neck and reseating the bullets all to the same OAL an groups shrunk down to about 3" at 100 yds. which I though was fairly acceptable.

The Bulgarian HB cases were of much better quality brass and had been stored under better conditions so I broke some of that down as well an replaced the bullet with a Speer .311" Hot Core SP bullets a friend gave me form his old 303 British days for hunting purposes since at the time no commercial 54r hunting ammo other than Norma at $1 was available.
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My favorite surplus ammo is the Yugoslavian brass case 182 gr. .311" FMJ which is all copper jacket lead core ammo,it shot under 3" right out of the box so I put that away in my stash for a rainy day.
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I also have Russian an Bulgarian steel case light ball ammo made in the 70's & 80's but it's still in the sealed tins. Pretty much ever since I started casting my own bullets I hardly ever shoot a jacket bullet these days although I have plenty stashed away for a rainy day. I can pretty much do anything with a cast lead bullet I can do with the more expensive jacketed bullet as to target shooting or hunting. My two favorite bullets for either Mosin are the Lee .312" 160 gr. tumble lube or the Lee .312" 185 gr. RN bullets both which use a gas check. In the past I've used a mix of Alox / Johnson Paste Wax tumble lube for most all my rifle bullet but for the standard grease groove bullet I now have a RCBS lubesizer and I powder coat as well but I haven't had much time to experiment with the PC'ed rifle bullet as of yet.

Alliant 2400 has been my go to powder for general purpose shooting in the Mosin's 16.0 grs. is a very accurate load in both rifle for mid range velocity around 1600 fps. For HV cast loads which is going to top out at around 2K fps. accuracy wise with 185 gr. bullets in the 1:10 twist bore I'm working up my load using H-4895 currently up to around 1700 fps. using 33.0 grs. which is only around 78% load density. I should be getting close to Max velocity/RPM/accuracy at around 90% load density. Once I find that load with the standard cast lubed gas check bullet I can work on some PC'ed versions of that bullet.

Some unlubed 185 gr. bullets
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Some 160's loaded and ready to shoot.
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Test group out of the 91/30 using the Lee 185 gr. bullet cast for wheel weights and water quench straight from the mold gas checked,lubed with 2500+ and sized to .314"
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My $100 91/30 after the refinish.
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My M44 after the refinish.
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by Wobble » 12 Dec 2016, 12:02 pm

Groups to match on the M44 :thumbsup:
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by Sydor » 12 Dec 2016, 9:24 pm

This thread is quite illuminating.
The milsurp ammo from the Soviet block was made after Mosin's rifles stopped being used as a standard issue rifle for the infantry. As you know it was replaced with SKS and then AK.
This ammo was only used for (another) great Kalashnikov's firearm - PK Pulemiot Kalashnikova - Soviet rifle caliber machine gun. And accuracy was not the main priority for a machine gun.

Soviet designated marksmen were issued SVD and "sniper ammo" that was made much more accurate, and rarely or even never made into surplus sales.
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by juststarting » 12 Dec 2016, 10:33 pm

reloader762, interesting writeup! Which mould did you use for the 185 gr. bullets?
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Re: A question about 7.62 x 54r

Post by reloader762 » 13 Dec 2016, 11:10 am

juststarting wrote:reloader762, interesting writeup! Which mold did you use for the 185 gr. bullets?


It's the Lee .312" 185 gr. RN. Mine actually drops bullets that are right at .314" using wheel weight alloy plus 2% tin. Lee actually produced two version of the mold,the old styles has a longer gas check shank an has been discontinued for some time now. The new style mold has a shortened gas check shank and the mold blocks are cut differently and have alignment pin like found in custom molds. Here is one side of the new Lee mold blocks,not bad for about $23 US.
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Soviet designated marksmen were issued SVD and "sniper ammo" that was made much more accurate, and rarely or even never made into surplus sales.

There were actually two version of the Sniper ammo made the 7N1 which can be seen here http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo030.htm some of it made it into the states but it was about twice the cost of normal surplus. In 1999 the 7N1 was replaces by the 7N14 which had a AP projectile,it was never imported into the states. I've never had any of either of the 7N versions but I do have a 440 rd. tin of surplus ammo made at the same Factory 188,not sure if it's of any better quality that any other surplus ammo for any other ammo factory or not.

I haven't shot any of it in either of my Mosins to see how accurate it is. I need to pull out some random samples of both the Russian an Bulgarian LB ammo and shoot a few test groups,but that might be awhile till some warmer weather shows up.
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