Winchester brass is hard work

[bladeracer]

I picked up some Winchester brass for .243 load development while I trial a bunch of different bullets.
This stuff is HARD. Does it come non-annealed or something?
One of the 100 had a split neck, but otherwise I was pretty happy with the state of them, and they all trimmed about the same amount. But running them through the collet neck-sizing die was astonishingly hard work. First time I've ever had to stand up and hang off the press while running the ram up and down. Pulling the case down the expander was barely any easier than running it up it. Even seating the bullets is tougher than I'm used to with Norma, Hornady, Federal and Sellier & Bellot.
Anybody else found this or did I get two bags of duds?
I've put a couple aside that I'm going to shoot over and over just to see how long they last.
Once I've decided on bullets and velocities the plan is to buy Hornady or Norma brass, and this Winchester stuff will just be used for subsonic and cast lead loads, if it becomes easier to work with.

This is the first Winchester centrefire brass I've ever used, and the last. Even for free I could never recommend it to anybody. I specifically waited until my brothers arrived down here so I could show them what's involved in developing the loads. I wish I'd prepped it earlier as I could've picked up some better stuff before today, oh well

[deye243]

I picked up some Winchester brass for .243 load development while I trial a bunch of different bullets.
This stuff is HARD. Does it come non-annealed or something?
One of the 100 had a split neck, but otherwise I was pretty happy with the state of them, and they all trimmed about the same amount. But running them through the collet neck-sizing die was astonishingly hard work. First time I've ever had to stand up and hang off the press while running the ram up and down. Pulling the case down the expander was barely any easier than running it up it. Even seating the bullets is tougher than I'm used to with Norma, Hornady, Federal and Sellier & Bellot.
Anybody else found this or did I get two bags of duds?
I've put a couple aside that I'm going to shoot over and over just to see how long they last.
Once I've decided on bullets and velocities the plan is to buy Hornady or Norma brass, and this Winchester stuff will just be used for subsonic and cast lead loads, if it becomes easier to work with.

This is the first Winchester centrefire brass I've ever used, and the last. Even for free I could never recommend it to anybody. I specifically waited until my brothers arrived down here so I could show them what's involved in developing the loads. I wish I'd prepped it earlier as I could've picked up some better stuff before today, oh well

no but ever since they went to the red bags the brass is s**t

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Posted about this last week only diffrence is mine was 303 worst brass i have ever seen. Dont weigh the stuff you'll freak out alot more. Winchester never agin my first time buying will be my last stick to hornady or PPU. It has seriously made me question their other products also.

[sandgroperbill]

I'm not a winchester fan at all. A rifle I recently bought came with 50 new winnie cases in a blue bag and it is shocking.

One exception when it comes to winnie is their .223 bulk packs, though, but even here you have to be careful. I've had one where extra lead had run and formed a drop down the side of the projie. But I've only had this one problem from many boxes and my rifle is happy with them

[bladeracer]

Thanks Guys
I really can't imagine it's possible to buy any lower-quality brass than this, and it wasn't even cheap - $84/100.
Is this the same stuff they use in their factory ammo?
They certainly won't be seeing any more money of mine.

[SendIt]

no but ever since they went to the red bags the brass is s**t

It was never match grade but for every day shooting I never had any particular complaints with it in the past. It would be a a year or two since I bought new brass though.

Blue bags before, if I remember right.

Red bags = new factory or something?

[reloader762]

One of my buddies has some new Win. 30-30 brass that starting to split the necks just after a few light loadings. On a personal level a few years back I purchased a couple boxes of Win. White Box 7.62 x 39 for $9 per 20 and all the cases cracked at the neck on the first firing,even some of the Win. primer have been having issues with cracks or pin holes on firing and causing gas leaks and bolt face erosion. I haven't purchased new mfg. brass in a long time as I get once fired when needed from a local supplier but to date I haven't had any issues with brass from any mfg. but most of mine is all old stock.

All brass is annealed at the factory several time during the forming process,you want notice as most of the Western mfg. polish off the exterior signs of it in the finishing process where as mfg. like Lapua,PPU and Lake City brass will show it. It appears that Winchester is having some quality control issues or has issues with the quality of the base materials they make their components from.

[Mango bill]

Had the same problem with Remington .308. Splitting every third case neck with new brass on firing the first load.
I think they make them hard for transport, from now on I anneal all my new brass before I use them.

[happyhunter]

Maybe a bad batch? I use Winnie brass for loading the 222 rem and it's known to be popular that cartridge too. Have some that I cycle through the 308 as well, no problems. You could contact Winchester and pass them the batch number as it's possible a lot has missed the annealing process.

[bladeracer]

Maybe a bad batch? I use Winnie brass for loading the 222 rem and it's known to be popular that cartridge too. Have some that I cycle through the 308 as well, no problems. You could contact Winchester and pass them the batch number as it's possible a lot has missed the annealing process.

Not a bad idea, I'll do that.

[on_one_wheel]

Iv'e got 2 old blue bags of Winchester .243
If I ever wear out enough of my current batches to justify breaking out the new stuff I'll be annealing them regardless.

So far I've had a good run from older Winchester brass, I'm up to 5 times fired on most, never been resized, neck sized only and annealed, every reload.

So far I can count the split necks on one hand from my lot of 200 reused factory Winchester brass.

Obviously it's worth the hassle annealing brass.

My ADI brass was obviously annealed at the factory, I can see the discolouration.

[kabang]

I've had better success reloading European brass, Sako / Norma / Lapua, I have a small quantity of Win brass .308 Win must be the old stuff as I've resized and reloaded about 4 times.
I purchased 100 x .223 Rem Nosler brass cases which I do not recommend necks crack and imperfections in material don't know what blend Nosler uses.

Good Luck with your Winchester Brass

Kabang

[AZZA'S HJ47]

As i said earlier the quality control must be up s**t creek are they blind? Most of my necks were half caved in admittedly that could have happened during transport we all full length size regardless. Honestly guys look at them closer, weigh them out you will never buy another bag. I have contacted Winchester in regards to their in my honest opion sub standard offerings. ( i made it clear that i didnt want anything from them, just wanted to know if there was a batch problem) Havent heard a thing from them to tell you the truth that drives me even further up the wall. My take on their reply f@#* Winchester ill never buy another product that bears their name.