Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by in2anity » 29 Nov 2017, 7:28 am

Huh did not know about service rifle silhouette groundhog! Jeepers I take they're at high power distances, wow would that be tough with irons.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by groundhog » 29 Nov 2017, 7:48 am

Yeah! Single figure scores even zeros are not uncommon in service rifle, it got dropped in favour of the far more enjoyable Black powder match - still with open sights but shot prone from cross sticks.
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by in2anity » 29 Nov 2017, 7:53 am

groundhog wrote:Yeah! Single figure scores even zeros are not uncommon in service rifle, it got dropped in favour of the far more enjoyable Black powder match - still with open sights but shot prone from cross sticks.


Explains why I've never seen a service match :thumbsup:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by groundhog » 29 Nov 2017, 8:09 am

Fair enough, Where do you shoot?
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by in2anity » 29 Nov 2017, 9:02 am

groundhog wrote:Fair enough, Where do you shoot?


Mainly Silverdale (NSW) rimfire silhouette, but I've also been to Bowral (+backyard practice at a mates farm); I'm aiming to do a lot more centerfire in the future as I have developed rifles/loads for high power hunting and CLAS now. How about yourself?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by Gamerancher » 29 Nov 2017, 9:31 am

The service rifle was dropped at Nationals because more of us wanted to shoot our BPCR's than service. When you've got nearly $4000 invested in a rifle, you want to shoot it more than a crappy old $400 SMLE. ( That'll get some angry comments ;) )
We were all keen to shoot service while it was shot "as well as" BPCR, but they started shooting it "instead of" and that was
why it was dropped. There was simply more interest in the BPCR.
The rules dictate service rifles are to be shot "as issued", so no changing of sights is permitted. If some clubs are allowing that, it would be at a club level only.

We are now way, way off topic.

Back to the original thread, there are a few blokes/blokettes that shoot the .44mag for both pistol caliber and rifle. They usually load up fairly hot loads to get the 200m rams. 240 grainers with 23.5 grains of 2205 tends to knock 'em over. :D
The pistol caliber targets are 1/2 size and 1/2 distance, reduced loads, i.e. something like 7gr of trailboss or 6.5gr of AS-30 are more than adequate.
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by in2anity » 29 Nov 2017, 9:39 am

Gamerancher wrote:We are now way, way off topic.

Back to the original thread, there are a few blokes/blokettes that shoot the .44mag for both pistol caliber and rifle. They usually load up fairly hot loads to get the 200m rams. 240 grainers with 23.5 grains of 2205 tends to knock 'em over. :D


The original thread has nothing to do with metallic silhouette requirements just sayin :D but yeah agreed good to swing it back to 44mag loads discussion
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by bladeracer » 29 Nov 2017, 11:26 am

Gamerancher wrote:Back to the original thread, there are a few blokes/blokettes that shoot the .44mag for both pistol caliber and rifle. They usually load up fairly hot loads to get the 200m rams. 240 grainers with 23.5 grains of 2205 tends to knock 'em over. :D
The pistol caliber targets are 1/2 size and 1/2 distance, reduced loads, i.e. something like 7gr of trailboss or 6.5gr of AS-30 are more than adequate.


Okay, looking at ADI data 23.5gn of AR2205 makes roughly the same 1750fps that I got from the factory Federal AE 240gn loads. That's making about 630ft/lbs at 200m, 40% more punch than my current 240gn load.
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by Gamerancher » 29 Nov 2017, 7:13 pm

The full size rams @ 200m are "soft-set". The correct setting is just forward of topple point.
In the 500m competitions they are "hard-set" and require at least 1000ft/lb of energy to knock down reliably. To put that into context, a .243win cannot be relied upon to knock them down. As you can imagine, when set just forward of topple point they require a lot less.
Your current load would be more than adequate for the pistol caliber class and providing you have the elevation adjustment would more than likely be okay for the chickens, pigs and turkeys in the rifle class. You may just have to load 'em up for rams. :thumbsup:
The contact details for the bloke running the CLAS Nationals at Little River next year are in the ad which can be found in the competitions section of the SSAA journal. Get in touch with Mark and see if there are any shoots coming up so that you may "try before you buy" so to speak.
If you think "plinking" is fun with lever-guns, have a crack at silhouette. The visual spectacle of falling / flying targets and the resounding clang in your ears can be very addictive. :D
We have been known to enjoy ourselves once the guns are put away also. :drinks:
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by bladeracer » 29 Nov 2017, 8:39 pm

Gamerancher wrote:The full size rams @ 200m are "soft-set". The correct setting is just forward of topple point.
In the 500m competitions they are "hard-set" and require at least 1000ft/lb of energy to knock down reliably. To put that into context, a .243win cannot be relied upon to knock them down. As you can imagine, when set just forward of topple point they require a lot less.
Your current load would be more than adequate for the pistol caliber class and providing you have the elevation adjustment would more than likely be okay for the chickens, pigs and turkeys in the rifle class. You may just have to load 'em up for rams. :thumbsup:
The contact details for the bloke running the CLAS Nationals at Little River next year are in the ad which can be found in the competitions section of the SSAA journal. Get in touch with Mark and see if there are any shoots coming up so that you may "try before you buy" so to speak.
If you think "plinking" is fun with lever-guns, have a crack at silhouette. The visual spectacle of falling / flying targets and the resounding clang in your ears can be very addictive. :D
We have been known to enjoy ourselves once the guns are put away also. :drinks:



Okay, I can't see any possibility of making 1000ft/lb out of the .44 Magnum at 200m. I'd need to punch a 300gn at 1950fps to make that. Hornady does factory .243 100gn BTSP ammo that makes 1350ft/lbs at 200m. And that does not knock them over reliably? They do a .30-30 load 160gn that makes about 1250ft/lbs at 200m - would that be reliable?
Rather than try to load to a number I think I'm going to have get one of the biggest targets and practice on it myself to see where the minimum energy falls.
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by Gamerancher » 29 Nov 2017, 9:56 pm

You don't need 1000ft/lb @ 200m. I was referring to what is needed @ 500m. The targets are set differently, please re-read my post.
200m is the distance for lever guns, 500m is for scoped high power, BPCR and service rifle.
"Soft-setting" makes them a lot easier to knock over, that is why even reduced loads in .30-30's will knock them over. I've knocked them down @ 200m with reduced .44mag loads. If you can get 240gr of lead to hit , it will work. The trick with the .44 is to get a load that gets out there with the elevation available with your sights.
I have been using .38-55's for a while now shooting reduced loads behind a 250gr cast bullet that is 100% effective on rams @ 200m.
If you have the means to make a full size ram target, including the correct size feet, it can be very useful for working out loads that work.
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by bladeracer » 29 Nov 2017, 10:29 pm

Gamerancher wrote:You don't need 1000ft/lb @ 200m. I was referring to what is needed @ 500m. The targets are set differently, please re-read my post.
200m is the distance for lever guns, 500m is for scoped high power, BPCR and service rifle.
"Soft-setting" makes them a lot easier to knock over, that is why even reduced loads in .30-30's will knock them over. I've knocked them down @ 200m with reduced .44mag loads. If you can get 240gr of lead to hit , it will work. The trick with the .44 is to get a load that gets out there with the elevation available with your sights.
I have been using .38-55's for a while now shooting reduced loads behind a 250gr cast bullet that is 100% effective on rams @ 200m.
If you have the means to make a full size ram target, including the correct size feet, it can be very useful for working out loads that work.


My mistake, been a busy day :-)
I'll hunt up some 3/8" steel plate 27" by 32" to cut out a ram with 4" by 5" feet and then try to work up a load that just reliably knocks it down.
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Re: Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

Post by Gamerancher » 29 Nov 2017, 10:44 pm

No worries mate, we've all been there. :oops:

Yeah, I reckon you wont be disappointed. You can set him up as a swinger for practice but setting him up on a rail for load development takes all of the guess work out of it. Best of luck with it. The .44 is relatively popular with folks that shoot one gun for the two events.
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