Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

[Supaduke]

Looks like the trigger actuator could be the issue

[juststarting]

Looks like the trigger actuator could be the issue

Oh, definetly not discounting that.

[Gamerancher]

You said that you had put a peep sight on, what sight is it? You might need a lower front sight to get up on target. I had a Marlin Cowboy that I had to get a lower front sight for to get out to our 200m ram targets.

[petemacsydney]

hey mate
where did you end up with your .44 lever load recipe's?
just starting to think about it myself.
not sure if i want to shell out for the dies now or just go factory for a while, but interested to know how your load work up went?
is it for a .44 1894 marlin?
cheers
p

Hi All

I am about to start loading for my 44... I am having trouble finding minimum charge data.

I am using:
+ Cast 240gr SWC (http://leeprecision.com/6-cavity-c429-240-swc.html)
+ Winchester Large Pistol Primers
+ ADI AR2205

I've looked at the ADI reference, it has the projectile (240 gr cast SWC), but not the powder I want. Next one up the list is 240 gr NOS JHP - 22gr of AR2205. Nick Harvey's manual just has it by weight, 240 gr = 24.5 gr of AR2205(2.5 grains is a bit of difference). I also find that Harvey seems to have hotter minimum loads in general.

Anyway, can someone point me in the right direction with the starting load for 240 gr cast SWC using AR2205.


Thanks

[juststarting]

Correct, for Marlin.

This is my fun gun, noty killin' gun, so it's plinkers only. I went with what gamerancher suggested, 19-20gr of AR2205.

I use Lee 0.429 240gr mold and then run the bullets through the resizing die.

Took a bit of time getting used to wider aperture sight (Skinner, medium aperture), but that's about it. Shoots fine.

I also loaded Hornady XT... something projectiles, because I had a box of those. I don't remember the exact load I used in that, need to look it up, but I did load it on the hotter side. Also shot fine.

Factory ammo is fine, I guess, for hunting. I have few boxes of PPU. For plinking it has a lot more recoil than it needs to have. It doesn't kick, but it rattles your teeth with full power loada, when your cheek is on the butt. With handloads, it's just loads of fun watching things evaporate on impact and very mild recoil.

[bladeracer]

hey mate
where did you end up with your .44 lever load recipe's?
just starting to think about it myself.
not sure if i want to shell out for the dies now or just go factory for a while, but interested to know how your load work up went?
is it for a .44 1894 marlin?
cheers
p

Mine is a Dec '14 dated 1894, with Micro-Groove rifling.
Still haven't got it shooting lead with any success.
But I got 700 jacketed bullets last week to give me something to feed it while I'm sorting the lead.
Lead seems to plow straight through the rifling to group around 18" at 50m. The 250gn bullet on 7.5gn of Trailboss or 9gn of AP70N they run _roughly_ around 1100fps.
Powdercoating made no real difference, neither did gas checks.
I've got some I hope to test today using three parts Bronzewing 7-1/2 shot to one part 60/40 solder - should be around 15.5BHN. Bronzewing advised me their shot is about 3.5% antimony. These dropped much bigger from the .429" 250gn mould at .4335" so I've just tumble lubed them, not checked or sized. They're also 10% lighter at 225gn. The solder drives the cost up significantly though which somewhat defeats the purpose of running lead through it.

I also tried the 265gn FTX on 9gn of AP70N, I didn't get any chrono readings but they grouped much better, around 3" at 50m, but they were still pushing the previous leading out of the barrel so I would expect that to tighten up. Was not at all impressed with the bullet though after it passed through several layers of rubber with no expansion, so they might need to be pushed pretty hard.

[juststarting]

Speaking off, yes, using melted wheel weights with hardness around 15 or just over. Pan lube and gas checked. Though latest batch, I stopped gas checking, because I don't think it's moving fast enough to care.

[bladeracer]

Speaking off, yes, using melted wheel weights with hardness around 15 or just over. Greece lube and gas checked. Though latest batch, I stopped gas checking, because I don't think it's moving fast enough to care.

Cool, but you're sizing them to .429"?
I'm not pushing these hard enough to need checks either, I was just hoping to reduce leading from the bullets skipping over the rifling

[Tripod]

Speaking off, yes, using melted wheel weights with hardness around 15 or just over. Greece lube and gas checked. Though latest batch, I stopped gas checking, because I don't think it's moving fast enough to care.

Cool, but you're sizing them to .429"?
I'm not pushing these hard enough to need checks either, I was just hoping to reduce leading from the bullets skipping over the rifling

Have you slugged the bore on your rifle? You absolutely have to have the sizes right when using cast projectiles.

[petemacsydney]

wow bladeracer, 18" @ 50M !!.
mines new and has the 20” barrel with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves). not sure of the difference tbh.
she seems to scrape a hell of a lot of copper off though!
here's the results after 50 rounds... not sure if this is normal copper build up or not as only just got my bore scope.
(american eagle factory 240gr

b3.jpg (216.77 KiB) Viewed 7741 times

b2.jpg (212.51 KiB) Viewed 7741 times

b1.jpg (251.86 KiB) Viewed 7741 times

.

[juststarting]

Cool, but you're sizing them to .429"?

I am, yes.

[Gamerancher]

Fella's , I don't own a Marlin apart from my 39a, but my brother in law is a Marlin "nut" and I'm pretty sure he found slower loads to be better in his micro-groove barrels with cast bullets. Also .001 - .002" over bore diameter is what he has found to work best. A load of 7g of Trailboss works well in my Win '94, alternatively, 6.5 gr of AS-30. Both loads use 240gr cast bullets.

[Gamerancher]

On another note, for you fella's in Victoria, the Nationals for lever-gun silhouette are on at Little River, May 3-6, 2018.
So, plenty of notice there for ya. Get a load working and get to practicing your off-hand shooting.
I can also bring a couple of loaner guns if anyone is keen to have a go and doesn't own one.
I expect to see a bunch of you there, no excuses.

[bladeracer]

On another note, for you fella's in Victoria, the Nationals for lever-gun silhouette are on at Little River, May 3-6, 2018.
So, plenty of notice there for ya. Get a load working and get to practicing your off-hand shooting.
I can also bring a couple of loaner guns if anyone is keen to have a go and doesn't own one.
I expect to see a bunch of you there, no excuses.

Can you give me a bit of a run down on what this involves? Ranges? Can we print targets for practicing? Is there a rule of thumb on how much terminal energy is required to drop each target?

[bladeracer]

Have you slugged the bore on your rifle? You absolutely have to have the sizes right when using cast projectiles.

Yes, the bore is .430" on a .45" ball pushed through the bore. But I have fired bullets up to .434" so far.

[bladeracer]

Fella's , I don't own a Marlin apart from my 39a, but my brother in law is a Marlin "nut" and I'm pretty sure he found slower loads to be better in his micro-groove barrels with cast bullets. Also .001 - .002" over bore diameter is what he has found to work best. A load of 7g of Trailboss works well in my Win '94, alternatively, 6.5 gr of AS-30. Both loads use 240gr cast bullets.

I managed to test the hard bullets finally and there is some improvement. They went into about seven-inches at 50m doing 1050fps, and very consistently (velocity deviation in single digits) so I think it's finally stopped gas-cutting.
Then I shot ten Nolser 240gn JHP's at 1240fps. The first four went the usual eighteen-inches-odd as they blew out the leading, then settled into about three-inches. So I'm going to load some more of the hard-cast bullets and try them again with an unleaded bore. I'll also try sizing them down to .431" to see if the hard lead is more important than the size.

The Noslers shed all their jackets neatly passing through the second layer of rubber and only the points above the cannelure deformed. But the hard-cast lead had no deformation whatever, I could shoot them again I reckon. They'd be alright for silhouette but not for hunting.
But having to cast them so hard really reduces the value of shooting them instead of jacketed bullets. I didn't do much looking around but I paid 48c each for 700 Nosler and Hornady jacketed bullets. These cost me 28c each to cast due to the solder content. I can recycle them for free shooting here at home so it's a one-off cost, but it still annoys me

[bigpete]

Try shooting them unsized juststarting

[Gamerancher]

On another note, for you fella's in Victoria, the Nationals for lever-gun silhouette are on at Little River, May 3-6, 2018.
So, plenty of notice there for ya. Get a load working and get to practicing your off-hand shooting.
I can also bring a couple of loaner guns if anyone is keen to have a go and doesn't own one.
I expect to see a bunch of you there, no excuses.

Can you give me a bit of a run down on what this involves? Ranges? Can we print targets for practicing? Is there a rule of thumb on how much terminal energy is required to drop each target?

I hate double quoting but my reply won't make sense otherwise.
Here's a link to the rule book. You'll find scale templates for the targets at the end.
https://ssaa.org.au/assets/disciplines/ ... e-book.pdf

[bladeracer]

Here's a link to the rule book. You'll find scale templates for the targets at the end.
https://ssaa.org.au/assets/disciplines/ ... e-book.pdf

Thanks Gamerancher
Any comment on the required energy to knock over the steels at these ranges?
Or do you know of a forum that might be able to give me some guidance on that?
Basically, is the .44 Magnum a handicap, should I grab a .45-70?

[in2anity]

Here's a link to the rule book. You'll find scale templates for the targets at the end.
https://ssaa.org.au/assets/disciplines/ ... e-book.pdf

Thanks Gamerancher
Any comment on the required energy to knock over the steels at these ranges?
Or do you know of a forum that might be able to give me some guidance on that?
Basically, is the .44 Magnum a handicap, should I grab a .45-70?

Blade for CLAS the 44 mag will easily knock the rams over - they’re only at 200m. Even a 30-30 @ 1600fps knocks them over.

[bladeracer]

Blade for CLAS the 44 mag will easily knock the rams over - they’re only at 200m. Even a 30-30 @ 1600fps knocks them over.

Cool, thanks for that, I shall set to practicing

[in2anity]

My 2c on the subject; the key is finding that accurate load with just enough power to consistently knock down the rams - recoil takes its toll after a match or two (and really effects your consistency) so if possible you wanna keep it to the minimum required.

[bladeracer]

My 2c on the subject; the key is finding that accurate load with just enough power to consistently knock down the rams - recoil takes its toll after a match or two (and really effects your consistency) so if possible you wanna keep it to the minimum required.

Yep, that's why I'd like to load to what I need to knock them over at 200m, without going much heavier than that.
The 240gn JHP at 1250fps is pretty comfortable to shoot for my damaged shoulder, but it's only making about 450ft/lb at 200m.

[in2anity]

My 2c on the subject; the key is finding that accurate load with just enough power to consistently knock down the rams - recoil takes its toll after a match or two (and really effects your consistency) so if possible you wanna keep it to the minimum required.

Yep, that's why I'd like to load to what I need to knock them over at 200m, without going much heavier than that.
The 240gn JHP at 1250fps is pretty comfortable to shoot for my damaged shoulder, but it's only making about 450ft/lb at 200m.

I reckon that'll come close - might ring a few, but if you hit em high I think it'll work. If it doesn't, you won't need much more oomph - FWIW I've extrapolated 500ft/lb at 200m (from the classic 17gn 2207 30/30 load). One way to find out

[Gamerancher]

Lucky they don't enforce plagiarism laws on this site ol' mate.

[in2anity]

Lucky they don't enforce plagiarism laws on this site ol' mate.

You weren’t around, so I figured I’d step up to the plate ol' mate, just trying to help

[bladeracer]

Yep, that's why I'd like to load to what I need to knock them over at 200m, without going much heavier than that. The 240gn JHP at 1250fps is pretty comfortable to shoot for my damaged shoulder, but it's only making about 450ft/lb at 200m.

I reckon that'll come close - might ring a few, but if you hit em high I think it'll work. If it doesn't, you won't need much more oomph - FWIW I've extrapolated 500ft/lb at 200m (from the classic 17gn 2207 30/30 load). One way to find out [/quote]

Thanks again
It may well be time to buy myself some more steel silhouettes.
I need to do some more work on the loads to improve accuracy I think.
I was thinking this comp would be irons only but it seems to allow scopes, is that correct?
I bought a peep sight for the Norinco .22 and am planning to find one for the Marlin as well, but I have it scoped currently for load development.

[in2anity]

Thanks again
It may well be time to buy myself some more steel silhouettes.
I need to do some more work on the loads to improve accuracy I think.
I was thinking this comp would be irons only but it seems to allow scopes, is that correct?
I bought a peep sight for the Norinco .22 and am planning to find one for the Marlin as well, but I have it scoped currently for load development.

I was referring to CLAS (cowboy lever action silhouette) in which case scopes are not permitted; you can use an open, receiver (peep) or tang rear and a post or bead front sight (i.e no front tunnels allowed). I presume that's the comp you want to participate in?

"Rifle Metallic Silhouette" aka "Centrefire Silhouette Rifle" or "Centrefire Hunting Rifle" more colloquially known just as "high power..." permits scopes; but that's normally shot with bolt guns (rams are at 500m) where accuracy becomes more important.

[bladeracer]

I was referring to CLAS (cowboy lever action silhouette) in which case scopes are not permitted; you can use a open, receiver (peep) or tang rear and a post or bead front sight (i.e no front tunnels allowed). I presume that's the comp you want to participate in?

High power rifle permits scopes; but that's normally shot with bolt guns (rams are at 500m) where accuracy becomes more important.

That must be what I saw that made me think no scopes, missed it went I went looking though.
I like irons so I'll put in plenty of practice.
Far too early to say if I can make the comp, but at least I know it's coming

[in2anity]

That must be what I saw that made me think no scopes, missed it went I went looking though.
I like irons so I'll put in plenty of practice.
Far too early to say if I can make the comp, but at least I know it's coming

You're brave going irons - i can't shoot for s**t with a slot, give me a peep any day!