Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

[juststarting]

Hi All

I am about to start loading for my 44... I am having trouble finding minimum charge data.

I am using:
+ Cast 240gr SWC (http://leeprecision.com/6-cavity-c429-240-swc.html)
+ Winchester Large Pistol Primers
+ ADI AR2205

I've looked at the ADI reference, it has the projectile (240 gr cast SWC), but not the powder I want. Next one up the list is 240 gr NOS JHP - 22gr of AR2205. Nick Harvey's manual just has it by weight, 240 gr = 24.5 gr of AR2205(2.5 grains is a bit of difference). I also find that Harvey seems to have hotter minimum loads in general.

Anyway, can someone point me in the right direction with the starting load for 240 gr cast SWC using AR2205.


Thanks

[duncan61]

The data is in the pistol section for 2205 and a lead semi wadcutter 23-25 grains

[nightforcenxs]

i only use 210gr projectiles at the moment and i load them to 26gr of ar2205 and im not getting massive pressure but a friend has 240gr hornady xtp and runs 24gr of ar2205 and gets signs of pressure on the primer but lowest it says is 19gr of ar2205 with a 240gr speer soft point but i dont see why 19gr wont be fine to start on

[brett1868]

I've got a few 44Mag loads I use for 240Gr XTP's, Desert Eagle 44, Revolver 44 & Lever 44 with the hottest being the DE44 as it's gas operated and braked so needs the added grunt to cycle reliably + it's just wrong to shoot anything less macho then max load from a DE

COAL for all as per Hornady Manual 1.600"
DE44 @ 24gr AR2205 / CCI350
629 Revolver @ 22.3 AR2205 / CCI350
Lever @ 10gr AP70 / CCI350 - Useless in the DE as it leaves way too much unburnt powder behind but the longer barrel / burn time of the lever appears to suit it better.

But like any advice on working up a load, start at the min and work up but you already know that. Velocity at a guess should be around the 1400fps range in a rifle (1251fps outta the DE) so you're probably not needing to gas check. Try the 22.3grs of AR2205 as they seem to work quite well in my Marlin 44 Lever. Also being lead there's not the same pressure as a jacketed bullet so you can probably go hotter then what I use on the XTP's.
What's the intended purpose of the round?

[straightshooter]

I have never used 2205 but I have used IMR4227, which is an equivalent powder, and Hercules 2400 in the past in both Marlin and Winchester rifles.
When loaded down both powders were very dirty and left a noticeable amount of unburnt kernels of powder in the barrel.
When loaded to full recommended pistol loadings both would tend to jar the bolt slightly open on my Marlin. As a consequence I would say use caution if using pistol data because the pressure data will have been obtained out of a vented barrel to simulate the cylinder gap on a pistol.
I currently use very old and now no longer made AP90 with lead projectiles.
I would suggest that you will be far better off using a faster powder such as AP100 with lead projectiles even though I have never tried it myself.
I would equally suggest that you ignore many of the notions surrounding accuracy loading larger centerfires with jacketed bullets, when loading cast bullets you are in a different world.

[Gamerancher]

I seem to recall saying this already but,
For a light load with the bullet you have I would start with 19gr of 2205. I and many others I shoot lever guns with have used this load. I have found it to be accurate in my 24" 12 groove barreled Winchester 94. It is low recoiling and pleasant to shoot. A mate shoots 24.5gr 2205 in his Marlin and spends a fair bit of time each match re-tightening the screws.
2205 is notorious for leaving un-burnt powder in the barrel and on the bench in front of the muzzle. It gets better if you crimp but it is just the nature of the beast.
Another thing to watch out for when loading for lever guns is C.O.L. If your round is too long , it won't load out of the magazine.

[juststarting]

The data is in the pistol section for 2205 and a lead semi wadcutter 23-25 grains

Looking at it now, not seeing it. Using ADI 6th ed.

[juststarting]

Thanks, Brett

But like any advice on working up a load

Hence looking for some sort of printed reference with that,

What's the intended purpose of the round?

Just shooting s**t, you know... Nothing specific.

[juststarting]

Thanks, Gamerancher.

I seem to recall saying this already

correct, but I was pretty rough with the details last time, was just thinking about it.

[juststarting]

Alright, seems like there's a pattern developing.

Starting load at 19 and work up to 22.3, see how we go.

Thanks all.

[juststarting]

The data is in the pistol section for 2205 and a lead semi wadcutter 23-25 grains

Apologies, you were talking about the website, not their book. My bad. Thanks.

[duncan61]

I have tha ADI load data one click away.I have used someone elses .357 lever rifle.The .44 must have a bit more grunt.

[juststarting]

I have tha ADI load data one click away.I have used someone elses .357 lever rifle.The .44 must have a bit more grunt.

It does make a bigger boom, but I have shot 357 lever action and I must say I loved it. Maybe it may need to get added to my list for the future

[juststarting]

Alrighty, so I've loaded 40 rounds, 10 x 20gr, 21, 22, 23. Starting at Gamerancher's suggestion, well a little over... And up to (just under) Brett's recommendation. I prefer to keep it lite, but also within peep sight elevation range, so we'll see.

Question:

I've noticed that 20 - 23 grains is a pretty tight fit with 240 gr cast SWC. Since I am not used to it, I try to stay away from compressed loads, not always, but overall, I'd like to ask if this is expected?

I didn't hear the expected 'crunch' that you do with 2208, I guess the granules are a lot smaller, but it did feel compressed a little bit. Normal/expected?

[Gamerancher]

2205 works best with 100% load density, slight compression is okay, use a light crimp.

[juststarting]

Thanks, Gamerancher. Feel a lot easier about it now. Did use slight crimp too. Now on to testing

[juststarting]

Alright, so I am still here, after test firing my cast 44MAG... LOOOOVE IT! Thank you all, Noisy, Gamerancher and Brett, all advice helped. I think this is a start of a new addiction.

Shot at 50m with reasonably large aperture peep sight. Shot: 20, 21, 22 and 23 grains. Not too bad. Gamerancher, I really liked the 20 grain charge. Very mild and heaps of fun.



Shooting low. Could have been tighter, but I wasn't to concerned with taking my time, instead just put them on paper and see what happens.

Gamerancher, I think my next test loads will definitely include 19 grains.

Also, I didn't really notice rise in point of impact between 19 - 23 grains. I am thinking about earlier comments, that some powder doesn't burn up, could this be the case? I tend to blame myself usually for weird shooting, but this was too consistent to be me. So I am thinking, would it make sense to try a different powder for this rounds? Suggestions?

Overall, I think I am going to load a bunch of 19 grain loads and just use that for some plinking fun.

[juststarting]

p.s. I know shooting low is all relative. I am sighted in for 44MAG PPU ammo. I am using that as a baseline.

[Supaduke]

Looks like the trigger actuator could be the issue

[juststarting]

Looks like the trigger actuator could be the issue

Oh, definetly not discounting that.

[Gamerancher]

You said that you had put a peep sight on, what sight is it? You might need a lower front sight to get up on target. I had a Marlin Cowboy that I had to get a lower front sight for to get out to our 200m ram targets.

[petemacsydney]

hey mate
where did you end up with your .44 lever load recipe's?
just starting to think about it myself.
not sure if i want to shell out for the dies now or just go factory for a while, but interested to know how your load work up went?
is it for a .44 1894 marlin?
cheers
p

Hi All

I am about to start loading for my 44... I am having trouble finding minimum charge data.

I am using:
+ Cast 240gr SWC (http://leeprecision.com/6-cavity-c429-240-swc.html)
+ Winchester Large Pistol Primers
+ ADI AR2205

I've looked at the ADI reference, it has the projectile (240 gr cast SWC), but not the powder I want. Next one up the list is 240 gr NOS JHP - 22gr of AR2205. Nick Harvey's manual just has it by weight, 240 gr = 24.5 gr of AR2205(2.5 grains is a bit of difference). I also find that Harvey seems to have hotter minimum loads in general.

Anyway, can someone point me in the right direction with the starting load for 240 gr cast SWC using AR2205.


Thanks

[juststarting]

Correct, for Marlin.

This is my fun gun, noty killin' gun, so it's plinkers only. I went with what gamerancher suggested, 19-20gr of AR2205.

I use Lee 0.429 240gr mold and then run the bullets through the resizing die.

Took a bit of time getting used to wider aperture sight (Skinner, medium aperture), but that's about it. Shoots fine.

I also loaded Hornady XT... something projectiles, because I had a box of those. I don't remember the exact load I used in that, need to look it up, but I did load it on the hotter side. Also shot fine.

Factory ammo is fine, I guess, for hunting. I have few boxes of PPU. For plinking it has a lot more recoil than it needs to have. It doesn't kick, but it rattles your teeth with full power loada, when your cheek is on the butt. With handloads, it's just loads of fun watching things evaporate on impact and very mild recoil.

[bladeracer]

hey mate
where did you end up with your .44 lever load recipe's?
just starting to think about it myself.
not sure if i want to shell out for the dies now or just go factory for a while, but interested to know how your load work up went?
is it for a .44 1894 marlin?
cheers
p

Mine is a Dec '14 dated 1894, with Micro-Groove rifling.
Still haven't got it shooting lead with any success.
But I got 700 jacketed bullets last week to give me something to feed it while I'm sorting the lead.
Lead seems to plow straight through the rifling to group around 18" at 50m. The 250gn bullet on 7.5gn of Trailboss or 9gn of AP70N they run _roughly_ around 1100fps.
Powdercoating made no real difference, neither did gas checks.
I've got some I hope to test today using three parts Bronzewing 7-1/2 shot to one part 60/40 solder - should be around 15.5BHN. Bronzewing advised me their shot is about 3.5% antimony. These dropped much bigger from the .429" 250gn mould at .4335" so I've just tumble lubed them, not checked or sized. They're also 10% lighter at 225gn. The solder drives the cost up significantly though which somewhat defeats the purpose of running lead through it.

I also tried the 265gn FTX on 9gn of AP70N, I didn't get any chrono readings but they grouped much better, around 3" at 50m, but they were still pushing the previous leading out of the barrel so I would expect that to tighten up. Was not at all impressed with the bullet though after it passed through several layers of rubber with no expansion, so they might need to be pushed pretty hard.

[juststarting]

Speaking off, yes, using melted wheel weights with hardness around 15 or just over. Pan lube and gas checked. Though latest batch, I stopped gas checking, because I don't think it's moving fast enough to care.

[bladeracer]

Speaking off, yes, using melted wheel weights with hardness around 15 or just over. Greece lube and gas checked. Though latest batch, I stopped gas checking, because I don't think it's moving fast enough to care.

Cool, but you're sizing them to .429"?
I'm not pushing these hard enough to need checks either, I was just hoping to reduce leading from the bullets skipping over the rifling

[Tripod]

Speaking off, yes, using melted wheel weights with hardness around 15 or just over. Greece lube and gas checked. Though latest batch, I stopped gas checking, because I don't think it's moving fast enough to care.

Cool, but you're sizing them to .429"?
I'm not pushing these hard enough to need checks either, I was just hoping to reduce leading from the bullets skipping over the rifling

Have you slugged the bore on your rifle? You absolutely have to have the sizes right when using cast projectiles.

[petemacsydney]

wow bladeracer, 18" @ 50M !!.
mines new and has the 20” barrel with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves). not sure of the difference tbh.
she seems to scrape a hell of a lot of copper off though!
here's the results after 50 rounds... not sure if this is normal copper build up or not as only just got my bore scope.
(american eagle factory 240gr

b3.jpg (216.77 KiB) Viewed 7744 times

b2.jpg (212.51 KiB) Viewed 7744 times

b1.jpg (251.86 KiB) Viewed 7744 times

.

[juststarting]

Cool, but you're sizing them to .429"?

I am, yes.

[Gamerancher]

Fella's , I don't own a Marlin apart from my 39a, but my brother in law is a Marlin "nut" and I'm pretty sure he found slower loads to be better in his micro-groove barrels with cast bullets. Also .001 - .002" over bore diameter is what he has found to work best. A load of 7g of Trailboss works well in my Win '94, alternatively, 6.5 gr of AS-30. Both loads use 240gr cast bullets.