Help: loading 44MAG for lever action

[bladeracer]

Here's a link to the rule book. You'll find scale templates for the targets at the end.
https://ssaa.org.au/assets/disciplines/ ... e-book.pdf

Thanks Gamerancher
Any comment on the required energy to knock over the steels at these ranges?
Or do you know of a forum that might be able to give me some guidance on that?
Basically, is the .44 Magnum a handicap, should I grab a .45-70?

[in2anity]

Here's a link to the rule book. You'll find scale templates for the targets at the end.
https://ssaa.org.au/assets/disciplines/ ... e-book.pdf

Thanks Gamerancher
Any comment on the required energy to knock over the steels at these ranges?
Or do you know of a forum that might be able to give me some guidance on that?
Basically, is the .44 Magnum a handicap, should I grab a .45-70?

Blade for CLAS the 44 mag will easily knock the rams over - they’re only at 200m. Even a 30-30 @ 1600fps knocks them over.

[bladeracer]

Blade for CLAS the 44 mag will easily knock the rams over - they’re only at 200m. Even a 30-30 @ 1600fps knocks them over.

Cool, thanks for that, I shall set to practicing

[in2anity]

My 2c on the subject; the key is finding that accurate load with just enough power to consistently knock down the rams - recoil takes its toll after a match or two (and really effects your consistency) so if possible you wanna keep it to the minimum required.

[bladeracer]

My 2c on the subject; the key is finding that accurate load with just enough power to consistently knock down the rams - recoil takes its toll after a match or two (and really effects your consistency) so if possible you wanna keep it to the minimum required.

Yep, that's why I'd like to load to what I need to knock them over at 200m, without going much heavier than that.
The 240gn JHP at 1250fps is pretty comfortable to shoot for my damaged shoulder, but it's only making about 450ft/lb at 200m.

[in2anity]

My 2c on the subject; the key is finding that accurate load with just enough power to consistently knock down the rams - recoil takes its toll after a match or two (and really effects your consistency) so if possible you wanna keep it to the minimum required.

Yep, that's why I'd like to load to what I need to knock them over at 200m, without going much heavier than that.
The 240gn JHP at 1250fps is pretty comfortable to shoot for my damaged shoulder, but it's only making about 450ft/lb at 200m.

I reckon that'll come close - might ring a few, but if you hit em high I think it'll work. If it doesn't, you won't need much more oomph - FWIW I've extrapolated 500ft/lb at 200m (from the classic 17gn 2207 30/30 load). One way to find out

[Gamerancher]

Lucky they don't enforce plagiarism laws on this site ol' mate.

[in2anity]

Lucky they don't enforce plagiarism laws on this site ol' mate.

You weren’t around, so I figured I’d step up to the plate ol' mate, just trying to help

[bladeracer]

Yep, that's why I'd like to load to what I need to knock them over at 200m, without going much heavier than that. The 240gn JHP at 1250fps is pretty comfortable to shoot for my damaged shoulder, but it's only making about 450ft/lb at 200m.

I reckon that'll come close - might ring a few, but if you hit em high I think it'll work. If it doesn't, you won't need much more oomph - FWIW I've extrapolated 500ft/lb at 200m (from the classic 17gn 2207 30/30 load). One way to find out [/quote]

Thanks again
It may well be time to buy myself some more steel silhouettes.
I need to do some more work on the loads to improve accuracy I think.
I was thinking this comp would be irons only but it seems to allow scopes, is that correct?
I bought a peep sight for the Norinco .22 and am planning to find one for the Marlin as well, but I have it scoped currently for load development.

[in2anity]

Thanks again
It may well be time to buy myself some more steel silhouettes.
I need to do some more work on the loads to improve accuracy I think.
I was thinking this comp would be irons only but it seems to allow scopes, is that correct?
I bought a peep sight for the Norinco .22 and am planning to find one for the Marlin as well, but I have it scoped currently for load development.

I was referring to CLAS (cowboy lever action silhouette) in which case scopes are not permitted; you can use an open, receiver (peep) or tang rear and a post or bead front sight (i.e no front tunnels allowed). I presume that's the comp you want to participate in?

"Rifle Metallic Silhouette" aka "Centrefire Silhouette Rifle" or "Centrefire Hunting Rifle" more colloquially known just as "high power..." permits scopes; but that's normally shot with bolt guns (rams are at 500m) where accuracy becomes more important.

[bladeracer]

I was referring to CLAS (cowboy lever action silhouette) in which case scopes are not permitted; you can use a open, receiver (peep) or tang rear and a post or bead front sight (i.e no front tunnels allowed). I presume that's the comp you want to participate in?

High power rifle permits scopes; but that's normally shot with bolt guns (rams are at 500m) where accuracy becomes more important.

That must be what I saw that made me think no scopes, missed it went I went looking though.
I like irons so I'll put in plenty of practice.
Far too early to say if I can make the comp, but at least I know it's coming

[in2anity]

That must be what I saw that made me think no scopes, missed it went I went looking though.
I like irons so I'll put in plenty of practice.
Far too early to say if I can make the comp, but at least I know it's coming

You're brave going irons - i can't shoot for s**t with a slot, give me a peep any day!

[bladeracer]

You're brave going irons - i can't shoot for s**t with dovetails, give me a peep any day!

Peeps are also iron sights
I struggle with irons these days as well, except at close ranges.
I didn't like the buckhorn thingie initially, but as long as I concentrate on the sight picture it is surprisingly accurate.
I picked up a Williams receiver peep sight that fits the standard dovetail on the JW21. I expect I'll need to modify the front sight to suit it but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. I haven't decided whether to get a pic rail peep sight for the Marlin or go with a Marlin-specific unit that replaces the rail. When I finish developing some loads and remove the scope then I'll decide on that.

[in2anity]

You're brave going irons - i can't shoot for s**t with dovetails, give me a peep any day!

Peeps are also iron sights
I struggle with irons these days as well, except at close ranges.
I didn't like the buckhorn thingie initially, but as long as I concentrate on the sight picture it is surprisingly accurate.
I picked up a Williams receiver peep sight that fits the standard dovetail on the JW21. I expect I'll need to modify the front sight to suit it but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. I haven't decided whether to get a pic rail peep sight for the Marlin or go with a Marlin-specific unit that replaces the rail. When I finish developing some loads and remove the scope then I'll decide on that.

I have the Williams FP-336 on my Marlin with a 0.05" aperture + the "long elevation screw" + "target knob" + elevation "locking knob" which gets me well past 200m mark on the mild 17gr load.

336W_sights.jpg (699.86 KiB) Viewed 6628 times

I'd order the FP-336-TK though in retrospect - it has all of those bits already (besides the aperture).

[bladeracer]

I have the Williams FP-336 on my Marlin with a 0.05" aperture + the "long elevation screw" + "target knob" + elevation "locking knob" which gets me well past 200m mark on the mild 17gr load.

336W_sights.jpg

I'd order the FP-336-TK though in retrospect - it has all of those bits already (besides the aperture).

I did look at those but I don't like having all those knobs sticking out to get caught on things.
Do you know if it can be swapped in and out without losing zero?

[in2anity]

I have the Williams FP-336 on my Marlin with a 0.05" aperture + the "long elevation screw" + "target knob" + elevation "locking knob" which gets me well past 200m mark on the mild 17gr load.

336W_sights.jpg

I'd order the FP-336-TK though in retrospect - it has all of those bits already (besides the aperture).

I did look at those but I don't like having all those knobs sticking out to get caught on things.
Do you know if it can be swapped in and out without losing zero?

Sorry never really payed too much attention tbh - just presumed the rezero was necessary. BTW you don't really need the locking knob on the side - you actually have ample. time to make scope adjustments during a comp because you can do it at the end of each second bank - and then you have another 15 secs to "ready", so using a little flat-head screwdriver would be fine.

[bladeracer]

Do you know if it can be swapped in and out without losing zero?

Sorry never really payed too much attention tbh - just presumed the rezero was necessary.

No worries
For $120 it might be worth having a play with even if I don't leave it on the rifle permanently.
I assume it works with the standard front sight okay?

[in2anity]

Do you know if it can be swapped in and out without losing zero?

Sorry never really payed too much attention tbh - just presumed the rezero was necessary.

No worries
For $120 it might be worth having a play with even if I don't leave it on the rifle permanently.
I assume it works with the standard front sight okay?

Yeah it does, but I have a lyman front sight with interchangable inserts - the blade is a little finer than the factory version. I swap in the tunnel for 3-p. But yeah there are plenty that just keep the original front sight for MS.

[in2anity]

Didnt the rules say something about no front tunnel sights though. The rules are pretty hard to read with the four different disciplens all in together. It would be easier if they had complete different sections even if they had to repeat rules that were the same.

Thanks again
It may well be time to buy myself some more steel silhouettes.
I need to do some more work on the loads to improve accuracy I think.
I was thinking this comp would be irons only but it seems to allow scopes, is that correct?
I bought a peep sight for the Norinco .22 and am planning to find one for the Marlin as well, but I have it scoped currently for load development.

I was referring to CLAS (cowboy lever action silhouette) in which case scopes are not permitted; you can use an open, receiver (peep) or tang rear and a post or bead front sight (i.e no front tunnels allowed). I presume that's the comp you want to participate in?

"Rifle Metallic Silhouette" aka "Centrefire Silhouette Rifle" or "Centrefire Hunting Rifle" more colloquially known just as "high power..." permits scopes; but that's normally shot with bolt guns (rams are at 500m) where accuracy becomes more important.

[bladeracer]

Didnt the rules say something about no front tunnel sights though. The rules are pretty hard to read with the four different disciplens all in together. It would be easier if they had complete different sections even if they had to repeat rules that were the same.

Yep, it's not the easiest tome to wade through

Is it possible to enter several disciplines on the same day?
Like I could do the lever action CLAS and maybe another class with the .303?

[in2anity]

Is it possible to enter several disciplines on the same day?
Like I could do the lever action CLAS and maybe another class with the .303?

Absolutely - so long as your rifle complies with the rulebook. And this is especially where recoil takes its toll - if you participate in 2,3 even 4 matches in a day, you get pretty tired, and the heavier the recoil, the faster you fatigue. This is why people are increasingly choosing 7mm-08 and 6.5 creedmore over 308 (for high power).

In regard to your 303 (which i presume is service) - there's not really a category for service rifles; it'd have to fall under high power I guess. And unless you have it scoped (and is exceptionally accurate), you'd be putting yourself at somewhat of a disadvantage I feel.

Blade have you ever tried "Combined Services" comp?

[bladeracer]

Is it possible to enter several disciplines on the same day?
Like I could do the lever action CLAS and maybe another class with the .303?

Absolutely - so long as your rifle complies with the rulebook. And this is especially where recoil takes its toll - if you participate in 2,3 even 4 matches in a day, you get pretty tired, and the heavier the recoil, the faster you fatigue. This is why people are increasingly choosing 7mm-08 and 6.5 creedmore over 308 (for high power).

In regard to your 303 (which i presume is service) - there's not really a category for service rifles; it'd have to fall under high power I guess. And unless you have it scoped (and is exceptionally accurate), you'd be putting yourself at somewhat of a disadvantage I feel.

Blade have you ever tried "Combined Services" comp?

I could bring the 7mm-08 (I guess the MDT chassis is okay?), I just thought one of the milsurps might be more fun is all
Other than IPSC I've never done any competition shooting, except as a kid I was on the small-bore team with ARMY cadets, and air rifles with PCYC before that.
I don't know of anywhere within a couple hours other than F-Class at Rosedale and a pistol club in Traralgon that does "rapid fire" type shooting. There is a shotgun club nearby (Flynn Creek I think?) apparently that does Field Comp but I haven't caught up with them yet. My shoulder really isn't up to 12-gauge yet.

[groundhog]

Bladeracer, there is Service rifle Silhouette, it is outlined in the rule book and is shot with service rifles in exactly the same way as the Centerfire rifle match. I think the national record sits at about 19 for this because as you can imagine shooting this with open sights is interesting to say the least. This match has been dropped from the national rotation meaning that it will no longer have a national title but it is still shot in Queensland and from memory I think that they are also now allowing the use of after market sights - Parker Hales and such. If you are interested let me know and I will put you in contact with some people.

As for the MDT chassis it should be OK however the upper weight limit for "Heavy Gun" is 4.6kg which isn't massively heavy so it may not pass scrutineering.

[groundhog]

Sorry Bladeracer I just saw that you are in Vic. Little River range has silhouette competitions and is currently gearing up to host the CLAS nationals in May. If you are interested in more info the offer of putting you in touch with the right person still stands.

[in2anity]

Huh did not know about service rifle silhouette groundhog! Jeepers I take they're at high power distances, wow would that be tough with irons.

[groundhog]

Yeah! Single figure scores even zeros are not uncommon in service rifle, it got dropped in favour of the far more enjoyable Black powder match - still with open sights but shot prone from cross sticks.

[in2anity]

Yeah! Single figure scores even zeros are not uncommon in service rifle, it got dropped in favour of the far more enjoyable Black powder match - still with open sights but shot prone from cross sticks.

Explains why I've never seen a service match

[groundhog]

Fair enough, Where do you shoot?

[in2anity]

Fair enough, Where do you shoot?

Mainly Silverdale (NSW) rimfire silhouette, but I've also been to Bowral (+backyard practice at a mates farm); I'm aiming to do a lot more centerfire in the future as I have developed rifles/loads for high power hunting and CLAS now. How about yourself?

[Gamerancher]

The service rifle was dropped at Nationals because more of us wanted to shoot our BPCR's than service. When you've got nearly $4000 invested in a rifle, you want to shoot it more than a crappy old $400 SMLE. ( That'll get some angry comments )
We were all keen to shoot service while it was shot "as well as" BPCR, but they started shooting it "instead of" and that was
why it was dropped. There was simply more interest in the BPCR.
The rules dictate service rifles are to be shot "as issued", so no changing of sights is permitted. If some clubs are allowing that, it would be at a club level only.

We are now way, way off topic.

Back to the original thread, there are a few blokes/blokettes that shoot the .44mag for both pistol caliber and rifle. They usually load up fairly hot loads to get the 200m rams. 240 grainers with 23.5 grains of 2205 tends to knock 'em over.
The pistol caliber targets are 1/2 size and 1/2 distance, reduced loads, i.e. something like 7gr of trailboss or 6.5gr of AS-30 are more than adequate.