Powder weight

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: Powder weight

Post by Gwion » 07 Apr 2017, 3:29 pm

What you are referring to is the accuracy node. This is a balance of harmonics and consistent velocity. There is no way a load that does not have consistent velocity will provide a good water line elevation out @500yd and further.

You are looking for the area where charge weight has little effect on velocity while providing consistent harmonics.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/1 ... r-testing/

ladder-test-velocity-results-for-coated-223-berger-77gr-otm-tactical-varget-h48951.jpg
ladder-test-velocity-results-for-coated-223-berger-77gr-otm-tactical-varget-h48951.jpg (139.51 KiB) Viewed 5150 times
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Re: Powder weight

Post by colinbentley » 07 Apr 2017, 3:35 pm

God, you've lost me. Silly old bugger that I am thought it was just a case of put a bullet in the gun and squeeze the trigger. Taken me 12 years to understand headspace !Now you've totally confused me.
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Re: Powder weight

Post by Gwion » 07 Apr 2017, 3:41 pm

colinbentley wrote:God, you've lost me. Silly old bugger that I am thought it was just a case of put a bullet in the gun and squeeze the trigger. Taken me 12 years to understand headspace !Now you've totally confused me.


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Re: Powder weight

Post by bladeracer » 07 Apr 2017, 3:49 pm

Gwion wrote:What you are referring to is the accuracy node. This is a balance of harmonics and consistent velocity. There is no way a load that does not have consistent velocity will provide a good water line elevation out @500yd and further.

You are looking for the area where charge weight has little effect on velocity while providing consistent harmonics.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/1 ... r-testing/

ladder-test-velocity-results-for-coated-223-berger-77gr-otm-tactical-varget-h48951.jpg



I agree, but I wasn't aware we were discussing 500yd+ accuracy :-)
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Re: Powder weight

Post by Gwion » 07 Apr 2017, 3:56 pm

We were just discussing the myth that a load can shoot better at distance than at 100yds... Never going to happen in any real and verifiable sense. A load that is shooting 1moa with both vertical and horizontal dispersion at 100yd is not going to shoot 1/2 moa at 200yd, 300 or even 500yds. :drinks: :drinks: :drinks: must be beer o'clock, i think.
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Re: Powder weight

Post by bigfellascott » 07 Apr 2017, 4:05 pm

Gwion wrote:The problem with saying 'watch for pressure signs' is that not everyone knows what to look for and as such could be skating on thin ice, slowly damaging their firearm or risking catastrophic failure. Accurate loads can be found I. The low-mid powder range with attention to details.


They shouldn't be reloading if they don't know the basics hey. :thumbsup: Any half decent reloading manual will show you what to look for in regards to pressure signs and how to reload safely, if they haven't got one of those I guess they will get what they get in the way of results good or bad. :unknown:

And the other thing you will notice about different reloading manuals and information re loads and max/min is they all vary with the same powder so best thing one can do is reload with a view to keeping an eye out for diff pressure signs that will be the best indicator if one is getting into dangerous territory for their particular firearm or not.
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Re: Powder weight

Post by Gwion » 07 Apr 2017, 4:18 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Gwion wrote:The problem with saying 'watch for pressure signs' is that not everyone knows what to look for and as such could be skating on thin ice, slowly damaging their firearm or risking catastrophic failure. Accurate loads can be found I. The low-mid powder range with attention to details.


They shouldn't be reloading if they don't know the basics hey. :thumbsup: Any half decent reloading manual will show you what to look for in regards to pressure signs and how to reload safely, if they haven't got one of those I guess they will get what they get in the way of results good or bad. :unknown:

And the other thing you will notice about different reloading manuals and information re loads and max/min is they all vary with the same powder so best thing one can do is reload with a view to keeping an eye out for diff pressure signs that will be the best indicator if one is getting into dangerous territory for their particular firearm or not.


Yeah. Only thing with just reading a manual is that they are not all written in a way that makes sense to everyone. I had to read 3 and spend a good 6 months rehashing and pushing up the top end of powder loads before i started getting an idea exactly what pressure signs were. I'd like to see a manual with a full chapter devoted to pressure and detailed pictorials of what these different "signs" look like. I tried to start a thread on it to get some more experienced examples with pics and what not but it kind'a fell on its head.

A classic example is that most manuals refer to flattened or cratered primers but a lot of people claim that cratered primers are not a good indication. It's pretty obvious when your primer is well flattened, though. Just wonder how many people jump into reloading and never even look at the cases but just the groups!??!
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Re: Powder weight

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Apr 2017, 4:20 pm

This looks like a good site about pressure signs.

http://www.massreloading.com/reading_pr ... signs.html

I got an idea. I'm shooting all my groups at 300 meters then swap the target for the 100 mtr targets. I'll win a few comps that way fro sure. :thumbsup: :crazy:
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Re: Powder weight

Post by Gwion » 07 Apr 2017, 4:29 pm

Great link, OB! Thanks :thumbsup:
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Re: Powder weight

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Apr 2017, 4:47 pm

FIGJAM! 8-)
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Re: Powder weight

Post by colinbentley » 07 Apr 2017, 6:07 pm

My ex wife was right when she said I needed to put it in deeper !!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Powder weight

Post by bigfellascott » 07 Apr 2017, 7:36 pm

Gwion wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Gwion wrote:The problem with saying 'watch for pressure signs' is that not everyone knows what to look for and as such could be skating on thin ice, slowly damaging their firearm or risking catastrophic failure. Accurate loads can be found I. The low-mid powder range with attention to details.


They shouldn't be reloading if they don't know the basics hey. :thumbsup: Any half decent reloading manual will show you what to look for in regards to pressure signs and how to reload safely, if they haven't got one of those I guess they will get what they get in the way of results good or bad. :unknown:

And the other thing you will notice about different reloading manuals and information re loads and max/min is they all vary with the same powder so best thing one can do is reload with a view to keeping an eye out for diff pressure signs that will be the best indicator if one is getting into dangerous territory for their particular firearm or not.


Yeah. Only thing with just reading a manual is that they are not all written in a way that makes sense to everyone. I had to read 3 and spend a good 6 months rehashing and pushing up the top end of powder loads before i started getting an idea exactly what pressure signs were. I'd like to see a manual with a full chapter devoted to pressure and detailed pictorials of what these different "signs" look like. I tried to start a thread on it to get some more experienced examples with pics and what not but it kind'a fell on its head.

A classic example is that most manuals refer to flattened or cratered primers but a lot of people claim that cratered primers are not a good indication. It's pretty obvious when your primer is well flattened, though. Just wonder how many people jump into reloading and never even look at the cases but just the groups!??!


Yeah she's a learning curb alright but with todays internet access it's a darn sight easier than when I started (I used Nick Harveys reloading Manual) and read it as best I could and just got going and soon worked out what was what but can't say I really ever read much about pressure signs (I figured if I stayed within the min/max I would be fine and I was and later on I pushed the boundaries to see what was what and it was fine for the most part (had the odd primer pierced which was interesting) but that was more to do with having the projectiles jammed in the lands more than the powder charge which was well within limits from memory (only 1 or 2 pierced out of the couple of hundred I reloaded but those particular ones were hard to close the bolt on from memory (20-30yrs ago so hard to recall exactly what was what) but pretty sure it was as I said from memory.

I still use the flattened primers as a guide or sticky bolt lift and cratering to some degree (the 204 has a habit of piecing primers if you don't use a harder offering - Rem 7.5 are harder than the CCI offerings so I use those and haven't had any issues so far with the load being over about a grain or so and have run it hotter but found the groups were better with what I run now). :drinks:
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Re: Powder weight

Post by bigfellascott » 07 Apr 2017, 7:40 pm

Col you should be fine reloading up around the upper limits mate, the other thing to try is adjusting the seating depth of the projectile out slightly and see how that goes (read up about seating depths and the effects it can have on accuracy and pressure etc.
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