Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by colinbentley » 13 Mar 2017, 1:32 pm

I am currently using Wipeout and Bore Tech Eliminator. Any other members using these products and what are your opinions. ?
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Wm.Traynor » 13 Mar 2017, 7:28 pm

Did not know you could get Wipeout in Oz. It is supposed to be the beez neez 8-) What ever solvent you use, a bronze brush will help get the carbon out from the leade but use an abrasive after 200 rounds. I use BTE but it won't shift carbon without a bronze brush.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Mar 2017, 8:02 pm

Yeah I use both products - they seem to work fine.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by colinbentley » 13 Mar 2017, 9:00 pm

Wm Traynor. No you can't get Wipeout in Oz. I buy it through Amazon. You have to shop around a bit as many companies won't ship it. Even BTE is a little hard to come by. Same story but Qstore in Queensland will ship it.
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Scope magnification

Post by colinbentley » 13 Mar 2017, 9:18 pm

I am using two rifles for bench shooting. A 222 Remington and a 243 Winchester. I am shooting MOA at 100 metres but beyond that I am hopeless. Both scopes are 3-9 x40 and at 200 metres I barely make it onto paper. What strength scope would be recommended for 2 or 300 metres.and should In be looking at 50 mil.?
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Mar 2017, 10:20 pm

colinbentley wrote:Wm Traynor. No you can't get Wipeout in Oz. I buy it through Amazon. You have to shop around a bit as many companies won't ship it. Even BTE is a little hard to come by. Same story but Qstore in Queensland will ship it.


You can buy wipe out patch out in Oz, I bought a couple of bottles but can't remember who off now :shock: Honestly I think most of them work good enough for the average shooter so don't be concerned if you can't get the latest and greatest, just use what you have. :thumbsup:
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Re: Scope magnification

Post by bladeracer » 13 Mar 2017, 10:28 pm

colinbentley wrote:I am using two rifles for bench shooting. A 222 Remington and a 243 Winchester. I am shooting MOA at 100 metres but beyond that I am hopeless. Both scopes are 3-9 x40 and at 200 metres I barely make it onto paper. What strength scope would be recommended for 2 or 300 metres.and should In be looking at 50 mil.?



Seems weird that range would make that much difference in your accuracy.
Are you adjusting parallax and focus?
Do you have a good solid consistent cheek weld?
Actual scope magnification shouldn't be that big a deal, even iron sights usually work okay out to 300m.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by colinbentley » 13 Mar 2017, 11:24 pm

bladeracer. All I know is that at 200 meters the target is not large enough for me to be accurate.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by duncan61 » 13 Mar 2017, 11:47 pm

3-9x40 should be good out to 500m or more even .243 will shoot that far all day long.222 wont make it
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by bladeracer » 13 Mar 2017, 11:52 pm

colinbentley wrote:bladeracer. All I know is that at 200 meters the target is not large enough for me to be accurate.



If you use a larger target can you get smaller groups?
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Gwion » 14 Mar 2017, 12:07 am

Colin. Sounds like your technique needs some work and maybe a visit to the optometrist. 3-9x40 will easily be good enough for 300yd. You will need to figure out your elevation and also wind will play more of a role the further you push out the range; especially on a 22cal with light bullets.
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Re: Scope magnification

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 12:32 am

colinbentley wrote:I am using two rifles for bench shooting. A 222 Remington and a 243 Winchester. I am shooting MOA at 100 metres but beyond that I am hopeless. Both scopes are 3-9 x40 and at 200 metres I barely make it onto paper. What strength scope would be recommended for 2 or 300 metres.and should In be looking at 50 mil.?


First up on the barrel cleaning products.

I have up until recently (medical reasons) shot Benchrest Fly Shooting at National Competitions. 500m and 300m plus 200yds Rimfire. I use nothing but Bore Tech Eliminator to clean the bore at the end of a days competition, Moly coated bullets but did start with plain naked bullets which showed a very minor drop in accuracy at the very end of the day but still good enough to result in a 4th place from 30 odd other shooters. I have never had a carbon problem which is confirmed by regular checks with a Bore Scope. I do not use Bronze Brushes at all ever...!! I do run my first patch to soak the bore as soon as possible after my last shot for the day whilst the barrel is still rather warm and that may soak for hours or even overnight before a few more patches and that is all it needs. These are Stainless Steel Barrels, Chrome Moly I do not use for any form of target shooting, they aren't as accurate and much harder to clean.

A couple of friends use the same proceedure. Good enough for a couple of 1st Place results at 500m and kept them in the top few shooters for most events.

I gave up using Sweets, Hoppes, ProShot etc many years ago as did also the use of Bronze Brushes. It's nice having a Gunsmith friend who can check barrels regularly.

I use "Ballistol" which is just an oil, very much like WD40 to wipe the Carbon Trace off Case Necks and about mid shoot, lunch break if there is one I put some Ballistol on a Chamber Brush to soak the Neck Area of the chamber then dry patch it out. Never seen any carbon in the chamber neck or lead section of a bore.

Second....

Amoungst all this I shoot 300m Factory Class with a Sako 85 and Tikka T3 both .243W using Berger 90gr BT Moly Coated Bullets. Good enough for 1st place.from a couple of dozen shooters. BTW about 42.5gr AR2209 jammed 0.010" into the lands. Both SS Barrels, one fluted. The accuracy at 100m is about 1/2 MOA or better otherwise it's not worth competing. Factory Class has a Scope power limit of 25X and that is good enough. One rifle has a 8.5-25x50mm Leupold and the other a 10-60x52mm March which is wound back and set at 25X power. Of course it's much better using higher powers when conditions allow but not allowed in the competition shoots, just practise and load testing.

Calibres used I remember others using are .223R, 22-250, .308W, 7mmR Mag, 6mmPPC but I'm sorry no .222R in the comp. The heavier bullets have the edge if there is any type of breeze during the whole day. Including warmer target usually about 50 rounds down range per day.

The fun with this "Fly" shooting is the yellow target card and red Fly that will test your ability to see when Mirage happens.

Hope it helps, good shooting....it's fun competing against mates.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 12:35 am

duncan61 wrote:3-9x40 should be good out to 500m or more even .243 will shoot that far all day long.222 wont make it


The .222R held the long distance, 1,000 Yard records for many years. Yes, of course speciality built fast twist, heavy bullet weight custom target rifles.

BTW... I wouldn't us a 3-9x40 Scope for any further than 100m and only Hunting/Varminting. Just not good enough for Target use. It's pretty hard to focus a tiny 2mm dot at 100m in the centre of a low power scope.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by duncan61 » 14 Mar 2017, 1:35 am

benchrest was shot at 100-200 yards in varmint class.I would love to see a .222 go 1000 yards but the holdover would be about 50 yards.At 500 yards the drop is between 50-70 inches depending on the load.velocity is down to around 1000 fps and 200 ft/lb of energy.The case wont hold enough powder to do it and the max bullet weight doesnt help
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 2:03 am

I will have to see if I can find the records for Canberra back 50 odd years ago, perhaps a lot further back prior to .223R taking over. It may be way further back than that even.

I'm not thinking short range benchrest where 6mmPPC has the market for group and 30BR for score these days. That's SSAA Benchrest.

My memories are from a departed friend that shot both .308W and .222R NRA Ranges. And yes, these days I believe it's .308W and .223R used. Of course not a normal barrel twist and not a light weight bullet, nor do I know what powder was used...etc
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Post by bladeracer » 14 Mar 2017, 2:05 am

duncan61 wrote:benchrest was shot at 100-200 yards in varmint class.I would love to see a .222 go 1000 yards but the holdover would be about 50 yards.At 500 yards the drop is between 50-70 inches depending on the load.velocity is down to around 1000 fps and 200 ft/lb of energy.The case wont hold enough powder to do it and the max bullet weight doesnt help



I think a tight-twist .222 could do 1000yds okay, .223 does it pretty easily in F-Class.
But a .222 with a 12-14" twist is going to struggle.
Energy doesn't matter at in shooting paper.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by bladeracer » 14 Mar 2017, 2:10 am

Apollo wrote:I will have to see if I can find the records for Canberra back 50 odd years ago, perhaps a lot further back prior to .223R taking over. It may be way further back than that even.

I'm not thinking short range benchrest where 6mmPPC has the market for group and 30BR for score these days. That's SSAA Benchrest.

My memories are from a departed friend that shot both .308W and .222R NRA Ranges. And yes, these days I believe it's .308W and .223R used. Of course not a normal barrel twist and not a light weight bullet, nor do I know what powder was used...etc



When you refer to ".222R" do you mean .222 Rimmed?
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 2:15 am

.222Remington, I believe the Head Stamp just says 222R.

And yes, it would have to be something like a 1:8 twist target barrel. Wish I could ask my old mate but he passed away some years ago.

Sorry, I don't own one.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 2:23 am

Bit off topic isn't it sorry.....

But how much drop does a Standard Velocity .22LR Rimfire have at 200 Yards.... ??

Starts off at about 1,000 fps but good enough to hit 5mm targets at 200 yards. Yes, yards because that's the range specification distance. Fun in the wind/mirage.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by bladeracer » 14 Mar 2017, 2:24 am

Apollo wrote:.222Remington, I believe the Head Stamp just says 222R.



My brass says "222 Rem".
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 2:30 am

bladeracer wrote:
Apollo wrote:.222Remington, I believe the Head Stamp just says 222R.



My brass says "222 Rem".


Sorry, my mistake. I did say I don't have a .222 but it's a neat calibre and very accurate. Especially with the old ADI AR2206... no longer available. ;)
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by bladeracer » 14 Mar 2017, 2:44 am

Apollo wrote:Bit off topic isn't it sorry.....

But how much drop does a Standard Velocity .22LR Rimfire have at 200 Yards.... ??

Starts off at about 1,000 fps but good enough to hit 5mm targets at 200 yards. Yes, yards because that's the range specification distance. Fun in the wind/mirage.



I'm zeroed at 100m with 1085 Eley Edge and drop at 200m is around 1250mm. At 50m it's about 115mm high.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Gwion » 14 Mar 2017, 7:19 am

Apollo wrote:
duncan61 wrote:BTW... I wouldn't us a 3-9x40 Scope for any further than 100m and only Hunting/Varminting. Just not good enough for Target use. It's pretty hard to focus a tiny 2mm dot at 100m in the centre of a low power scope.


I wouldn't choose a 3-9 for target either but if it's all you have to start with it can still get you in the bull at 300yd. It certainly is not the reason he can't get on target at 200.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by colinbentley » 14 Mar 2017, 1:06 pm

Thanks for all the well intentioned advice. But no one really answered my question. What power scope would you recommend for benchrest accuracy at 2 and 300 meters. Please don't tell me you can shoot MOA at that distance. You are obviously better than me. What power scope would assist these weary old eyes to achieve much better results at these distances.And I must ad I don't want to spend 2 thousand dollars on new scopes.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by bladeracer » 14 Mar 2017, 1:18 pm

colinbentley wrote:Thanks for all the well intentioned advice. But no one really answered my question. What power scope would you recommend for benchrest accuracy at 2 and 300 meters. Please don't tell me you can shoot MOA at that distance. You are obviously better than me. What power scope would assist these weary old eyes to achieve much better results at these distances.And I must ad I don't want to spend 2 thousand dollars on new scopes.



I think it was answered in as much as nobody can see why you shouldn't be able to shoot just fine with your current magnification. Has anybody else tried shooting your rifle at 200m to see if it's a problem with the scope or a problem with your eyes? Have you tried shooting 200m with any other rifles?
Can you clearly see the target you are aiming at?
It's not a first focal plane scope is it?
I could loan you one of my 4.5-18x40's but I'm two hours out of Melbourne.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 1:30 pm

I would suggest something variable up to 25x at least, reasonable quality like a Leupold, Bushnell etc but in 2nd Focal Plane.

For Reticle you can have something simple like just a Crosshair, Crosshair with a dot in the centre or even the likes of what Leupold call Varmint Hunters which has hold over markings. Some have windage and elevation markings which help when it's windy to allow hold off to compensate rather than fiddle with the actual scope settings. With these also you can set a zero distance and if you want to say go from 200m to 300m without re-adjusting the scope you use a suitable hold over marking.

A lot also depends on the actual type of target you are shooting at. A huge Black Centre like in F-Class is much different to a tiny centre dot or circle common for benchrest.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by colinbentley » 14 Mar 2017, 1:43 pm

I think in part it may be the scope (and my inexperience ) The crosshairs are thicker than I would like, even at 100 metres. Maybe later in the year I should invest in a couple of new scopes. Next time I'm at the range if I can find n experienced shooter I'll see if he can do any better. With my range though in Mildura when I go mid week I usually have the range all to myself. Bit different to my days at Little River when I knew absolutely nothing. Head space......never heard of it. Now I know a little bit so less likely to do myself an injury. But shooting is a strange sport, ask a question and get 10 different answers.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Gwion » 14 Mar 2017, 2:49 pm

Definitely want as fine a reticle as you can focus onto your target. As for magnification, there are two schools of thought:
1/ get as high a mag as you can afford
2/ anything over about 18x shows up the slightest movement, breath or heart beat, making it very distracting.

The scope I bought is max 17x and I find it more than adequate at 600yd. You just need to balance what works for you. If you can keep a very still behind the rifle (always the goal) then higher mag makes it easier a
To "aim small, miss small".

It's really a question that can't be definitively answered by anyone else to suit you.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Apollo » 14 Mar 2017, 3:54 pm

When I first started my own training for competition target shooting some years ago I was using a March 8-80x56mm Scope for 500 metres. Not only the getting used to the very small exit pupil size but I encountered the problems with breathing and more so heart beat pulse.

A very, very experienced international shooter gave me a few hints. Relax..!!! Don't strangle your rifle and again relax your grip. That solved everything once I got used to the new ideas.

The very high magnification shows up a lot of errors in shooting style that would have never come to light with a low power scope. The errors would have still been there and also hence the innacuracy result on a target. It's second nature now to have a light grip, no cheek weld, keep the butt end just above shoulder height, no applied pressure into the shoulder and all this results into the rifle returning back to battery on the rests and a perfect view of the results without even thinking about any of it. Plus sitting upright with a straight back and the correct height stool to use.

I have a number of scopes, very expensive. Powers of up to 80x, 60x 50x etc even for use at precision short range 100 & 200 Yard competition.

Even if one can't afford an expensive high power scope I believe it would be a huge learning curve to borrow the use of one and learn to fix errors in your shooting style that then come to light. It's got to help every aspect of one's own shooting skills even if it's only knocking a bunny in the head at 50 metres.

I have a typical training rifle I offer to others when the situation presents itself and it's not that expensive to do. It's one of my long range outfits but switch the barrel to a very accurate calibre... 30BR and away they go. 30BR is a "Shoot for Score" calibre out to say 300 metres but typically 100 & 200. Nobody yet in any reports I have read anywhere in the world has anyone worn out a 30BR chambered barrel so that part doesn't worry me.
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Re: Reloading barrel cleaning products.

Post by Gamerancher » 14 Mar 2017, 5:03 pm

Can't hit what you can't see. 3 -9 x 40 as a target scope? :lol: You aren't going to be putting down much of a group @ 300m when your cross-hair is covering about 3 inches or more of the target. As for 500m, I just hope your target is big enough to hang out the sides of those cross-hairs. ;)
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