Reload speed variations.

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Reload speed variations.

Post by on_one_wheel » 02 Apr 2017, 9:51 pm

I've just used my chronograph for the first time and I'm wondering what would be considered good when it comes to speed variations.

Here's my results for the .223
ADI brass, ADI Powder Hornady V Max 55g
This brass has fired it's 3rd shot for this test. It has not been sorted for case volume or weight.
Each powder charge has been weighed out on beam scales.
Assembled with a blody hammer and a lee loader !
3128
3133
3145
3113
3154
3168
3134
3144
That's a 55 fps variation.
I recon sorting my brass into weight or volume will make a big difference for the .223

.243 RESULTS
Winchester brass, ADI powder, Sierra 100g
This brass has fired it's 7th shot for this test.
It HAS been sorted into batches of brass weight.
Trimmed for length and annealed.
Each powder charge has been weighed out on beam scales.
Assembled with a hammer and a lee loader !
2642
2647
2631
2634
That's 16 fps variation. ..I probably should have shot a few more for a broader sample group for the .243 but at least I now know my speed.
I should be able to preserve the barrel somewhat with that low speed.

I'm actually reasonably happy with the results considering all factors and I'm expecting better results with the .223 once my brass is batched.

The .243 is being used to 500 meters and the .223 is being used out to 350 meters thus far.

According to my ballistics calculator, at 350 meters a 55 fps variation will give me a 1" difference in drop for the .223
And the .243 with only 16 fps variation the difference between fastest and slowest will be 1.2" @ 500 m

That's probably better than I can shoot in the field :thumbsup:

As a side note before using the chronograph I estimated the speeds based on poi over different distances.
My guesstimations were,
2380 fps for the .243 (340 ish out, but I really hadn't put much effort into working it out)

3150 fps for the .223 ( almost spot on as I'd spent a bit of time plugging the numbers into this one)

How cool are chronographs! 8-)
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 02 Apr 2017, 10:03 pm

I think with the equipment that you are using the results are great. However I believe that if you were using a press be it a lee or like wise you could get the standard deviation down. in regards to weighing cases you will find that they will have a little to minimal weight between cases however it will help. What load are you currently using for the 223?
Sako Varmint 243,Marlin 917, Lithgow La101 .22 , 1917 BSA 303 (ted), Finnish Vkt 1944 M39,T3X Super Varmint 223, Marlin 1895 SBL 45-70 Howa 1500 308, BSA CF2 222, 1911 9mm, Adler 12G, Sako 7mm rem Mag,Ruger m77 mk1 22-250AI, Rem 700 17 Rem, BSA No 5 303
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by on_one_wheel » 02 Apr 2017, 10:20 pm

AZZA'S HJ47 wrote:I think with the equipment that you are using the results are great. However I believe that if you were using a press be it a lee or like wise you could get the standard deviation down. in regards to weighing cases you will find that they will have a little to minimal weight between cases however it will help. What load are you currently using for the 223?



25.5g of 2208

If I buy a press and dies I won't be able to hold a straight face when I say "I reload to save money"
Perhaps when I retire and decide to head to a gun range I'll go to town on it all. :thumbsup:

Are you thinking neck tension consistency?
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 02 Apr 2017, 11:02 pm

The main issue that i see with the lee loaded setup there is no feel one advantage of the bench mounted press if somethin isnt right you will generally pick up on it before its a finished round. I use the lee breach lock aniversary press Doesn't cost a arm and a leg and its a geat consistent way to reload. You will never look back. And besides by the time you have reloaded a 1000 rounds its more than paid for its self.
Sako Varmint 243,Marlin 917, Lithgow La101 .22 , 1917 BSA 303 (ted), Finnish Vkt 1944 M39,T3X Super Varmint 223, Marlin 1895 SBL 45-70 Howa 1500 308, BSA CF2 222, 1911 9mm, Adler 12G, Sako 7mm rem Mag,Ruger m77 mk1 22-250AI, Rem 700 17 Rem, BSA No 5 303
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by pomemax » 03 Apr 2017, 1:01 am

AR2208 .224" 2.200" 25.5 3,174 fps 41,300 CUP 27.5C 3,384 fps 49,700 CUP
taken from Adi web site for a 223 your speed its almost spot on
AR2208 .243" 2.650" 31.0 2,674 fps 42,700 CUP 33.7 2,838 fps 50,400 CUP
yep on the slow end so as you planned
According to my ballistics calculator, at 350 meters a 55 fps variation will give me a 1" difference in drop for the .223
And the .243 with only 16 fps variation the difference between fastest and slowest will be 1.2" @ 500 m
How was it on paper did you record similar just because the calculator says what was the gun saying no 2 are the same now you have a start for you ammo do a ladder test and see what the firearm likes.
As AZZA'S HJ47 says get yourself a press for consistency it will help at the moment you must be reloading very small volume my next batch of 223 alone is 16 kg of empty's could never do with out a press
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Apr 2017, 6:54 am

Sometimes we are penny wise pound foolish.
What do you spend on your sport overall? Fuel, equipment, rifles, components, now a chronic, will $250 on a loader send you broke.

I took a stingy attitude toward deer hunting for a long time but no result. Then realised $120 (2 trips of fuel) for a book was sfa compared to fuel, camping gear, rifle etc. Got the book shot my first sambar next year.

If you're into target, get a decent reloader. I have a good set up and hardly fire a shot, I just hunt. It was worth every cent. And I'm as tight as a fishes arse.

I don't have one but the Lee kits look great value.
If you already have scales and trimmer and other bits mayby just by the press?
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by Wm.Traynor » 03 Apr 2017, 10:07 am

FWIW, look into a Lee collet die for the necks. IMO, it is a time saving way to get around the neck tension problem. Always assuming there is one :)
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by on_one_wheel » 03 Apr 2017, 10:18 am

pomemax wrote: How was it on paper did you record similar just because the calculator says what was the gun saying no 2 are the same now you have a start for you ammo do a ladder test and see what the firearm likes.

Yep, all the load testing has been done on both rifles to a point where I'm happy with the grouping.
There might be more precision to be had as I've only tested in .5 grain increments and haven't played with seating depth other than setting my projectiles .25 mm off the lands.
The .223 shoots .5" groups @ 100m and the .243 is even beter
2017-04-03 09.30.06.jpg
Old .243 target shot prior to me sorting the brass in weight batches.
2017-04-03 09.30.06.jpg (299.26 KiB) Viewed 2180 times


The calculated variations seem to be what I'm seeing in the field. It's just nice to confirm that what I'm seeing is not human error.
I very rarely shoot paper but my shots with the .223 have been landing in kangaroos earholes just nicely.
I had a practice day with the .243 at 500 m not long back shooting at clays and found that my biggest variation was the wind with one in 3 shots smacking the clays and the others landing just left or right of the clays.
Not bad for a inconsistent 10 / 15 kph wind.
Last edited by on_one_wheel on 03 Apr 2017, 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reload speed variations.

Post by Gwion » 03 Apr 2017, 10:20 am

AS above, your results aren't bad considering your reloading method. I personally think you are push shyte uphill to improve much on these figures without improving your processes. Neck tension will be playing a small part and sorting cases by weight will help too but you will find these factors are fractional behind seating depth and picking the right powder and charge range. Look for a range in powder weight that gives fairly stable velocities and accuracy over around a grain of difference in charge weight and then work on finding the best charge weight in that range for accuracy. This usually occurs in the lower charge weight range (for me, anyway). I have found BM8208 to be the most stable and consistent powder for 223rem from the 3 i have tried.

Seating depth being both correct and consistent will make a HUGE difference.
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