Heavy 45/70 Loads

[bigpete]

Just saying

[Gamerancher]

Just glad it 'aint me hangin' on to it.

[bigpete]

[1886]

Just glad it 'aint me hangin' on to it.

Me to I assume you are of heavy build

I'm very slight build and shot 40grns of 2207 with a 300grn in my 1886 Browning and even that rattled my teeth

[Tripod]

I have a Marlin in 50 Alaskan that I run 50gr of 2207 and 500gr projectiles for a plinking load, It makes my 45-70 seem quite pleasant to shoot by comparison.

[bigpete]

Shot a couple of 405s at around 1800 today was quite nice really

[bigpete]

FB_IMG_1501071132281.jpg (41.9 KiB) Viewed 7088 times

Finally loading my 570gn pills

[straightshooter]

I have read most of the posts on this thread and some of the posts could be worrying if not ultimately dangerous.
Marlin used to proof test their lever action centerfire rifles with a 150% of normal load.
Marlins in 45/70 were proof tested at 40000 cup so that implies a maximum working pressure of 28000 cup.
Marlins in 444 were proof tested at 64000 cup so that implies a maximum working pressure of 40000 cup.
The two lever actions are essentially the same so a simple (or simply ignorant) person is likely to deduce that it thus may be acceptable to run a 45/70 at 40000 cup pressures. Danger Will Robinson.
So what is the difference?
The 444 Marlin is a shooting system and has a very strong case which was designed to overcome some of the limitations of a traditional US style lever action.
The 45/70 case is considerably weaker. Why? Well case manufacturers only have to meet SAAMI or CIP standards so why put in more brass than is necessary to meet that standard.
So when your 45/70 eventually blows up due to repeated 'proof' loads who do you blame?
Not the manufacturers, they know what they are doing.
All that's left is some nameless forum poster or yourself.

[Oldbloke]

IMHO, Always smart to stay within the makers recommendations. After all there is a small bomb beside your face. And when we are talking about centrefires, 100fps isn't going to be noticed by the average fox, pig or goat.

Also what many do not realise is that as you approach the max, a small increase in powder can cause a huge increase in pressure.

[bigpete]

Chill the hell out guys. The load produces 21500psi. Zero sign of pressure at all. My max load worked out granted breaks the 40k limit which is why I'm not even going close to that.

[bigpete]

s**t if 28k is the limit on the 1895 action,then you wouldn't want to load over the starting loads in the ADI manual specifically for Marlin actions !

[straightshooter]

s**t if 28k is the limit on the 1895 action,then you wouldn't want to load over the starting loads in the ADI manual specifically for Marlin actions !

Please be aware that cup and psi are different ways of estimating chamber pressure and are not interchangeable. There isn't even a uniform correlation of the two measurement methods across various cartridges.
It's simple misunderstandings like that, that can lead to real issues.

[juststarting]

Hi folks, though I use the same thread... I'm going to start loading for my 45-70. Mainly for gongs and plinking not sommuch for hunting. I'll be using 500gr cast projectiles, no gas checks.

What would be the recommendation for powder to use? I don't have a chronograph, but I am keen to know about upper velocity limit I could develop to, while avoiding leading.

Edit:
Basically I want to make it into as much hand cannon as it could be, without leading.

Thanks

[in2anity]

What would be the recommendation for powder to use?

Did you cast em yourself? Any idea of how hard they actually are?

[juststarting]

I will be DYI - yes.

Hardness, probably around 15-17 (wheel weights galore)

[Oldbloke]

JS, have you had a look on the cast bullets forum?

[Gamerancher]

If you are just loading for basically "sh!ts and giggles", why 500gr bullets?
Remind us again what rifle this is for?
A "mild" plinking load can be had with 370 gr cast bullets with 16gr of Trailboss behind. Accurate enough to take out 200m rams for all the blokes I shoot with.
Once you get above the 400 odd grain bullets in .45 they start getting a bit long to cycle through lever guns unless you seat them deep which then takes up a whole bunch of powder space.

[in2anity]

You got any 2207?

[juststarting]

JS, have you had a look on the cast bullets forum?

Nah, just thought I'd ask here for now. More than enough knowledge here.

[juststarting]

You got any 2207?

I don't have 2207.

[juststarting]

If you are just loading for basically "sh!ts and giggles", why 500gr bullets?
Remind us again what rifle this is for?
A "mild" plinking load can be had with 370 gr cast bullets with 16gr of Trailboss behind. Accurate enough to take out 200m rams for all the blokes I shoot with.
Once you get above the 400 odd grain bullets in .45 they start getting a bit long to cycle through lever guns unless you seat them deep which then takes up a whole bunch of powder space.

Why 500 - because the bullet shape looked cool and pointy and I like it. That's pretty much it. No other reason.

What rifle - single shot brake open New England Handy Rifle.

Purpose - correct, for s**ts and giggles.

[Gamerancher]

No worries. I assume your speaking about the Lee 500gr mold?
With the Handy rifle you'll have no trouble with the longer bullet.
Look at trying to get around 1200f/s, heavy .45 cal cast bullets can be very accurate at that velocity and good to 1000 yards if you've got the sights for it.

[juststarting]

Gamerancher, yep, that's the mold. Powder suggestions?

[Gamerancher]

Yeah,....Nah. Talking single shots here.
You are right about a Sh!t load of lead. The pot goes down quick when casting 500gr+ per bullet.
I use blackpowder exclusively in my rifles. I'll have to go back into the paperwork to find my loads for that new-fangled smokeless stuff.

[in2anity]

Have you checked out the single action data on the ADI website?

[juststarting]

Have you checked out the single action data on the ADI website?

I haven't checked anything out anywhere. I just asked for powder recommendations in this thread. Lol. The end.

[Oldbloke]

That's a very nice little 45-70 you have there. And at the right price.

[juststarting]

OB, definitely. And just perfect for my use case. Single shots have a certain charm about them. Though, I am tempted to take it deer hunting... I recon I'd do well.

[in2anity]

Have you checked out the single action data on the ADI website?

I haven't checked anything out anywhere. I just asked for powder recommendations in this thread. Lol. The end.

Have a look there - there’s definitely some trends, lots of 2206H, 2207, 2208 and benchmark 2 loads. FWIW (considering you don’t have any 2207) I’ve had acceptable results with 2206H under hard cast 30/30 pills.

[Oldbloke]

Nothing wrong with singles. My single 12g seems to point OK.