Heavy 45/70 Loads

[in2anity]

I wouldn't be recommending a 1895 CB in .45-70 for 3 P shooting.

i mean it'll probably never happen; i guess it'd have to fall under a fun MRCA match... but why do you think it'd be a bad idea?

[Gamerancher]

This is the 3 P shooting I'm talking about.

3 p shooting.jpg (49.28 KiB) Viewed 7042 times

This is the type of rifle used.

3 p rifle.jpg (34.38 KiB) Viewed 7042 times

Now do you see why I don't think a Marlin Cowboy in .45-70 would be suitable.

[in2anity]

This is the 3 P shooting I'm talking about..

Oh right - I see the disconnect, I see your point, I think I'm using incorrect terminology (again! ) but this is the kind of 3 position (military) style I was referring to (and occasionally participate in):

Methuen sitting_BA7D3160-44D0-11E3-A7A7005056A302E6.jpg (78.53 KiB) Viewed 7040 times

But like I said it's obviously no milsurp rifle, so it'd have to be used in a "fun" match, or your score wouldn't be considered. I think the 1895CB could work quite well for this application (so long as you had those sling studs! which I think I'd bubba on somehow)

[bigpete]

I'm still chasing useful info in regards to this

[Gamerancher]

If I have been reading right, you are after a load using 2208 powder behind your 405gr cast bullets for hunting large beasts?
My suggestion would be to start at 45gr and work up to 50gr max. You will not have much success trying to drive that bullet much faster than about 1700f/s.
A leaded barrel and gas-cut bullets with a loss of accuracy will be the result of going much faster.

[bigpete]

No I'm looking for a load for 570gn projectiles

[Gamerancher]

Okay, my bad. What do they look like, round nose, flat point ? Do you have some pics or dimensions? Your C.O.L is going to determine seating depth , hence, powder room in the case. More info required.

[bigpete]

Its the 570gn flat point gas check from CBE

[Tripod]

.454 Casull ?
A brother and a good friend both have low mileage late production Marlins bought cheap after previous [ambitious] owners became shy of them.

I think you will find they are Rossi's as Marlin haven't made any in 454, If they had I would own one.

[Gamerancher]

Okay, you'll need to get them out at around 12-1300 f/s. That will be duplicating the "buffalo" loads that were used on the American Bison herds.
Folks are still using that loading today on modern Bison hunts.
Heart-lung shots with full penetration are ideal. Of coarse spine and brain shots work also.
That is a rather heavy bullet in your Marlin, usually 405gr due to C.O.L restrictions.
Perhaps start at 35gr of the 2208 that you want to use and work up. Don't be fooled by the large case capacity, it was designed for black-powder not smokeless.
You have to keep the pressure down to a maximum of 28000 CUP in the Marlin. High pressure smokeless loadings for this case are only for the Ruger #1 and #3.

[Tripod]

Okay, .
You have to keep the pressure down to a maximum of 28000 CUP in the Marlin. High pressure smokeless loadings for this case are only for the Ruger #1 and #3.

bulls**t, Marlin are good for 40,000 CUP Trapdoors are only loaded up to 28,000 CUP.

[bigpete]

Okay, .
You have to keep the pressure down to a maximum of 28000 CUP in the Marlin. High pressure smokeless loadings for this case are only for the Ruger #1 and #3.

bulls**t, Marlin are good for 40,000 CUP Trapdoors are only loaded up to 28,000 CUP.

Yeah all the reloading data I've looked at says the Marlin's are good up to 40k.
I did find some data for a 550gn projectile and AR 2206H ,and some for the 570gn CBE using 2219. I've got 2206H,reloader 7, and W748 in stock along with 2208. So if anyone knows a load using one of them ......?

[Supaduke]

I have a Henry 45/70 and have been curious about some big thumper bullets myself. Mainly for s**ts and giggles. I found this reference on the marlin owners forum.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70 ... 354?page=1

"(Forum quote),
I agree with Ridgerunner, something slower like H322 (it is ADI 2219) is more suitable.
I have tried 40grs of AR2219 with 550gr Craters and it seems to be the sweet spot. BUT start at about 36-37grs and then work up and watch for pressure signs. It's ok in my gun but you have to be careful.
I have also tried CBE (Cast Bullet Engineering) 570gr a friend cast (very hard) and I like it with about 38grs AR2219 but again start lower and work up. I really like the heavy weights but remember they are very punishing on both ends. I am bit of a weaky so I use a Past magnum plus recoil shield. I have back problems and no it's not from shooting rediculously heavy loads.
Hope this helps but please show responsibility when going higher in the loads." (End quote)

These guys seem knowledgeable, but of course take this info with cautious mind. Hope it helps.

[Supaduke]

Also from the little bit of research I have done, not a real lot of data out there. A lot of what I did find , mention difficulties with OAL to cycle properly. Other issues are having to seat bullets past the crimp groove (I can't spell canulure). The bullets use seems more common in rugers, sharps etc and .458wm's.

I'd be very interested to see what you end up with and it's practicality.

[bigpete]

That's the thread I got my info off of

[Gamerancher]

Tripod, don't know where you are getting your info but I'll stand by the figures I gave. ( My source is Mike Venturino. )
Trapdoors are recommended to be loaded to a max of 18000 ( CUP or PSI, the .45-70 is one of a few cases where the two units match up ).
Winchester 1886 ( one of the strongest lever actions ) and Marlins - 28000
Ruger #1 & #3 and Siamese Mausers - 40000

The Marlin chambered for a smaller round, (such as .30-30) will have more steel encasing the chamber and therefore stronger and able to withstand higher pressure.
I thought we were talking .45-70 here. By all means, if you want to load the bejesus out of it, go right ahead.
By the way, yes , I have owned and shot a Marlin 1895CB in .45-70 just like the one bigpete has just bought.

[Supaduke]

ADI lists max pressure for 45/70 lever guns at 40,000cup

Trapdoors at 28,000 cup
Ruger no 1/3 50,000 cup

[Tripod]

Tripod, don't know where you are getting your info but I'll stand by the figures I gave. ( My source is Mike Venturino. )
Trapdoors are recommended to be loaded to a max of 18000 ( CUP or PSI, the .45-70 is one of a few cases where the two units match up ).
Winchester 1886 ( one of the strongest lever actions ) and Marlins - 28000
Ruger #1 & #3 and Siamese Mausers - 40000

The Marlin chambered for a smaller round, (such as .30-30) will have more steel encasing the chamber and therefore stronger and able to withstand higher pressure.
I thought we were talking .45-70 here. By all means, if you want to load the bejesus out of it, go right ahead.
By the way, yes , I have owned and shot a Marlin 1895CB in .45-70 just like the one bigpete has just bought.

I use published load data and load for a large number of Marlin lever actions a lot of which are wildcats which is why I make sure of my information before I use it.

[bigpete]

ADI lists max pressure for 45/70 lever guns at 40,000cup

Trapdoors at 28,000 cup
Ruger no 1/3 50,000 cup

Exactly what I'm reading too

[bigpete]

IMG_20170618_140659.jpg (499.24 KiB) Viewed 7161 times

So here's the 570gn,405gn, and a 225gn 44 mag lined up

[bigpete]

So from the only info I can find I can extrapolate some data. The load I've found is for a 550gn project using 47gn of 2206H. That's a maximum. I can extrapolate that down to 45gn of 2206H for a 570gn projectile,then take 10% off for a starting load. So how does 41gn of 2205H under the 570gn sound to the brains trust ?

[bigpete]

Hmmm I've worked out another load using info out of the ADI manual,starting load of 35gn of 2208. I think that sounds better

[Gamerancher]

Pretty sure that's what I said, "Perhaps start at 35gr of the 2208 that you want to use and work up.", before all the "how dare you" sh*t about how much pressure a Marlin can take. Just sayin'.

[bigpete]

Manuals still say 40000 cup for the Marlin action though. Not 28000. It was hard to tell with the 3 pages of other drivel

[bigpete]

Just saying

[Gamerancher]

Just glad it 'aint me hangin' on to it.

[bigpete]

[1886]

Just glad it 'aint me hangin' on to it.

Me to I assume you are of heavy build

I'm very slight build and shot 40grns of 2207 with a 300grn in my 1886 Browning and even that rattled my teeth

[Tripod]

I have a Marlin in 50 Alaskan that I run 50gr of 2207 and 500gr projectiles for a plinking load, It makes my 45-70 seem quite pleasant to shoot by comparison.

[bigpete]

Shot a couple of 405s at around 1800 today was quite nice really