Heavy 45/70 Loads

[juststarting]

Hi folks, though I use the same thread... I'm going to start loading for my 45-70. Mainly for gongs and plinking not sommuch for hunting. I'll be using 500gr cast projectiles, no gas checks.

What would be the recommendation for powder to use? I don't have a chronograph, but I am keen to know about upper velocity limit I could develop to, while avoiding leading.

Edit:
Basically I want to make it into as much hand cannon as it could be, without leading.

Thanks

[in2anity]

What would be the recommendation for powder to use?

Did you cast em yourself? Any idea of how hard they actually are?

[juststarting]

I will be DYI - yes.

Hardness, probably around 15-17 (wheel weights galore)

[Oldbloke]

JS, have you had a look on the cast bullets forum?

[Gamerancher]

If you are just loading for basically "sh!ts and giggles", why 500gr bullets?
Remind us again what rifle this is for?
A "mild" plinking load can be had with 370 gr cast bullets with 16gr of Trailboss behind. Accurate enough to take out 200m rams for all the blokes I shoot with.
Once you get above the 400 odd grain bullets in .45 they start getting a bit long to cycle through lever guns unless you seat them deep which then takes up a whole bunch of powder space.

[in2anity]

You got any 2207?

[juststarting]

JS, have you had a look on the cast bullets forum?

Nah, just thought I'd ask here for now. More than enough knowledge here.

[juststarting]

You got any 2207?

I don't have 2207.

[juststarting]

If you are just loading for basically "sh!ts and giggles", why 500gr bullets?
Remind us again what rifle this is for?
A "mild" plinking load can be had with 370 gr cast bullets with 16gr of Trailboss behind. Accurate enough to take out 200m rams for all the blokes I shoot with.
Once you get above the 400 odd grain bullets in .45 they start getting a bit long to cycle through lever guns unless you seat them deep which then takes up a whole bunch of powder space.

Why 500 - because the bullet shape looked cool and pointy and I like it. That's pretty much it. No other reason.

What rifle - single shot brake open New England Handy Rifle.

Purpose - correct, for s**ts and giggles.

[Gamerancher]

No worries. I assume your speaking about the Lee 500gr mold?
With the Handy rifle you'll have no trouble with the longer bullet.
Look at trying to get around 1200f/s, heavy .45 cal cast bullets can be very accurate at that velocity and good to 1000 yards if you've got the sights for it.

[juststarting]

Gamerancher, yep, that's the mold. Powder suggestions?

[Gamerancher]

Yeah,....Nah. Talking single shots here.
You are right about a Sh!t load of lead. The pot goes down quick when casting 500gr+ per bullet.
I use blackpowder exclusively in my rifles. I'll have to go back into the paperwork to find my loads for that new-fangled smokeless stuff.

[in2anity]

Have you checked out the single action data on the ADI website?

[juststarting]

Have you checked out the single action data on the ADI website?

I haven't checked anything out anywhere. I just asked for powder recommendations in this thread. Lol. The end.

[Oldbloke]

That's a very nice little 45-70 you have there. And at the right price.

[juststarting]

OB, definitely. And just perfect for my use case. Single shots have a certain charm about them. Though, I am tempted to take it deer hunting... I recon I'd do well.

[in2anity]

Have you checked out the single action data on the ADI website?

I haven't checked anything out anywhere. I just asked for powder recommendations in this thread. Lol. The end.

Have a look there - there’s definitely some trends, lots of 2206H, 2207, 2208 and benchmark 2 loads. FWIW (considering you don’t have any 2207) I’ve had acceptable results with 2206H under hard cast 30/30 pills.

[Oldbloke]

Nothing wrong with singles. My single 12g seems to point OK.

[juststarting]

Nothing wrong with singles. My single 12g seems to point OK.

Ya old prick.

[juststarting]

in2anity, yeah I don't mind buying more powder... Will check 2207. I use 2205 and 2208 mostly. So something new would be good. I'll check out 2206H as well, could use that in my 223 too. Back to the drawing board.

[Oldbloke]

Nothing wrong with singles. My single 12g seems to point OK.

Ya old prick.

Be polite, you forgot bald and fat.

[bigpete]

OK my load I came up with is a cbe 570gn gas check over 40gn ar2206h for 1470fps and around 27k psi. Standard disclaimer applies. Doesn't kick that bad

[in2anity]

in2anity, yeah I don't mind buying more powder... Will check 2207. I use 2205 and 2208 mostly. So something new would be good. I'll check out 2206H as well, could use that in my 223 too. Back to the drawing board.

I wish they did trial packs of powder - it’s annoying you gotta fork out for the 500g bottle just to effectively test its potential.

[juststarting]

Yep. That would be nice, but I think there's plenty of data online to make an informed decision.

I have a party pack worth of 2208. That's my go to powder for everything. Soon, a small sample bottle of black powder too

I use 2205 to load 44 (rifle). So if I can somehow combine that into a party pack of 4.5kg worth of goodness, to shoot 45-70, 44 and 12ga slugs , that would be awesome. Bentaz suggested Trailboss, which I am yet to research. It does look promising.

2206H seems good for small zippy centre fire like 223, 222, etc.

2207 and others I need to do a bit more reading on.

[juststarting]

Alright, so I did some searching and maybe others will find this useful. I ended up on http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?18340-Load-data-for-Lee-45-70-molds&p=205314&viewfull=1#post205314

Shot data 45-70 Gov. 500gr cast bullet and my mapping to ADI equivalents:

H4895---48 to 52 gr's.
H4198---39 to 41 gr's.
IMR 4895--47 to 50 gr's.
IMR 3031---44 to 48 gr's.
RX-7---35 to 38 gr's.

H4895---48 to 52 gr's. ---> AR2206H
H4198---39 to 41 gr's. ---> AR2207
IMR 4895--47 to 50 gr's.---> AR2207
IMR 3031---44 to 48 gr's.---> Bench Mark 2
RX-7---35 to 38 gr's.---> unknown

So it seems like AR2207 is the way to go.

Now, I wonder if I can replace AR2205 for 44 Mag in rifle, for AR2207. On ADI burn rate chart, they are next to each other, so I wonder if anyone uses 2207 to charge 44 REM MAG? It's be great if I could use it for 44 and 45-70.

Still need to read about a couple of others, but I have a starting point.
Edit:
Trailboss looks very promising too and seems like it needs a lot less, by weight. So cheap, cheap.

[Gamerancher]

20gr of 2205 used to work real well behind my 375gr cast bullets in .45-70 Marlin CB. Mild and accurate.

7gr of Trailboss in the .44rem mag and 16gr in the .45-70

[juststarting]

Trailboss seems to be a good powder for older crap I have too, like Steyr 8x56R, seems like it would produce a load that would be gentle on the gun.

[bigpete]

You want plinking loads get some trailboss. One tub will last you ages. I've even used it to load 12g full brass round ball loads

[sungazer]

IMR 4895 and H4895 are both the same AR2206H

[in2anity]

IMR 4895 and H4895 are both the same AR2206H

You sure about that...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... 95.212021/

The fact is we only get 2206H here so in reality we simplify and just group them together