Heavy 45/70 Loads

[juststarting]

Nothing wrong with singles. My single 12g seems to point OK.

Ya old prick.

[juststarting]

in2anity, yeah I don't mind buying more powder... Will check 2207. I use 2205 and 2208 mostly. So something new would be good. I'll check out 2206H as well, could use that in my 223 too. Back to the drawing board.

[Oldbloke]

Nothing wrong with singles. My single 12g seems to point OK.

Ya old prick.

Be polite, you forgot bald and fat.

[bigpete]

OK my load I came up with is a cbe 570gn gas check over 40gn ar2206h for 1470fps and around 27k psi. Standard disclaimer applies. Doesn't kick that bad

[in2anity]

in2anity, yeah I don't mind buying more powder... Will check 2207. I use 2205 and 2208 mostly. So something new would be good. I'll check out 2206H as well, could use that in my 223 too. Back to the drawing board.

I wish they did trial packs of powder - it’s annoying you gotta fork out for the 500g bottle just to effectively test its potential.

[juststarting]

Yep. That would be nice, but I think there's plenty of data online to make an informed decision.

I have a party pack worth of 2208. That's my go to powder for everything. Soon, a small sample bottle of black powder too

I use 2205 to load 44 (rifle). So if I can somehow combine that into a party pack of 4.5kg worth of goodness, to shoot 45-70, 44 and 12ga slugs , that would be awesome. Bentaz suggested Trailboss, which I am yet to research. It does look promising.

2206H seems good for small zippy centre fire like 223, 222, etc.

2207 and others I need to do a bit more reading on.

[juststarting]

Alright, so I did some searching and maybe others will find this useful. I ended up on http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?18340-Load-data-for-Lee-45-70-molds&p=205314&viewfull=1#post205314

Shot data 45-70 Gov. 500gr cast bullet and my mapping to ADI equivalents:

H4895---48 to 52 gr's.
H4198---39 to 41 gr's.
IMR 4895--47 to 50 gr's.
IMR 3031---44 to 48 gr's.
RX-7---35 to 38 gr's.

H4895---48 to 52 gr's. ---> AR2206H
H4198---39 to 41 gr's. ---> AR2207
IMR 4895--47 to 50 gr's.---> AR2207
IMR 3031---44 to 48 gr's.---> Bench Mark 2
RX-7---35 to 38 gr's.---> unknown

So it seems like AR2207 is the way to go.

Now, I wonder if I can replace AR2205 for 44 Mag in rifle, for AR2207. On ADI burn rate chart, they are next to each other, so I wonder if anyone uses 2207 to charge 44 REM MAG? It's be great if I could use it for 44 and 45-70.

Still need to read about a couple of others, but I have a starting point.
Edit:
Trailboss looks very promising too and seems like it needs a lot less, by weight. So cheap, cheap.

[Gamerancher]

20gr of 2205 used to work real well behind my 375gr cast bullets in .45-70 Marlin CB. Mild and accurate.

7gr of Trailboss in the .44rem mag and 16gr in the .45-70

[juststarting]

Trailboss seems to be a good powder for older crap I have too, like Steyr 8x56R, seems like it would produce a load that would be gentle on the gun.

[bigpete]

You want plinking loads get some trailboss. One tub will last you ages. I've even used it to load 12g full brass round ball loads

[sungazer]

IMR 4895 and H4895 are both the same AR2206H

[in2anity]

IMR 4895 and H4895 are both the same AR2206H

You sure about that...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... 95.212021/

The fact is we only get 2206H here so in reality we simplify and just group them together

[Oldbloke]

These are the equivelents
.

Hodgdon-Powder-and-ADI-The-Australian-Connection-10-ADI.jpg (174.35 KiB) Viewed 8250 times

[sungazer]

According to the ADI website the fact that they have the same part numbers would also make sense.

ScreenHunter_001.jpg

[juststarting]

Oi, mofos, go create a powder equivalents thread and have it out there. Don't hijack this one

[Oldbloke]

Oi, mofos, go create a powder equivalents thread and have it out there. Don't hijack this one

Your right, just couldn't help myself.

[juststarting]

Went with Trail Boss. Any links to load data tables would be appreciated.

N.B.
I thought it'd be a good compromise. Since I load for 44, 45-70 and an old plinker of 308, this should cover all of them. Aaaaand maybe, just maybe, send slugs with it too, but I don't know, will need to come back to shotgun later.

[juststarting]

20gr of 2205 used to work real well behind my 375gr cast bullets in .45-70 Marlin CB. Mild and accurate.

7gr of Trailboss in the .44rem mag and 16gr in the .45-70

[Gamerancher]

Just don't compress it. You might have to check seating depth of those 500gr bullets.

[Supaduke]

As mentioned, the only rule with Trailboss is don't compress it.

Measure your seating depth , mark that on your case.

Fill case to that mark.

Weigh that powder

There is your max load.

[juststarting]

No compression. Understood.

I was going to measure by weight and go from there. Interesting that it's volumetric.

I'll make up some dummy rounds and play with seating...

[juststarting]

Oh my, what am I getting my self into...


(308 case as reference)

In case there are zombie dinasaurs hiding behind a wall across the street lol.

Now to work out Trail Boss load for this bundle of goodness...

Few lessons came from this.

- this is a lot of lead. A lot.
- pouring this much lead heats up the mold too fast, so casting is slow.
- I suspect I may have a bit of zinc in there, will check hardness in couple of hours. Should be fine.
- I think I may have outgrown the furnace - bottom pour is the way to go and will need to upgrade.

[bigpete]

So are you shooting it out of a lever action or a single shot ? I seem to remember it was a single shot ? If so,you can seat the bullets out a bit further to squeeze in some extra powder

[bigpete]

Screenshot_2017-12-27-21-55-55.png (508.76 KiB) Viewed 7869 times

[juststarting]

bigpete, single shot break action. H&R handy rifle.

Thanks for the data. Appreciated. Will start building test loads.

[juststarting]

Getting about 13.4 BHN. Guessing it may (or may not) harden a little more over a week. Acceptable hardness.

[Oldbloke]

Getting about 13.4 BHN. Guessing it may (or may not) harden a little more over a week. Acceptable hardness.

Got my doubts the hardness will change with time.

[juststarting]

Yes, me too, OB. I've actually did a bit of backyard experiment with this. Made a few bullets using lead and WW. And measured them daily for few days. No change.

I actually have it somewhere, will post at some stage.

Either way, 13.something is acceptable, I am going to throw a lot of it... Just not very fast LOL

[Tank]

OK my load I came up with is a cbe 570gn gas check over 40gn ar2206h for 1470fps and around 27k psi. Standard disclaimer applies. Doesn't kick that bad

I know this goes some way back Pete....but would like to know how you got on with you 570gr load here. No probs with stabilisation? Did it group ok? Did you slay a buff with it?
Cheers,
Tank.

[bigpete]

OK my load I came up with is a cbe 570gn gas check over 40gn ar2206h for 1470fps and around 27k psi. Standard disclaimer applies. Doesn't kick that bad

I know this goes some way back Pete....but would like to know how you got on with you 570gr load here. No probs with stabilisation? Did it group ok? Did you slay a buff with it?
Cheers,
Tank.

It didn't stabilize well. Gave up on it. The buffalo hunts fell through thanks to useless mates who couldn't organise a f*** in a brothel