reloading .223 1in8 twist

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by gilmc » 11 Oct 2017, 10:46 am

Hi all, I'm after some advice please. I have a Tikka T3 .223 with a 1 in 8 twist. I have been having issues with this rifle since new in regards to reloading. My previous rifles all had 1 in 12 twist and I reloaded with 50-55gn projectiles using either BM1 or 2206h and accuracy was never an issue. My Tikka however does not like any projectiles in the 50-55gn range (I've tried just about all of them) with grouping at 100m as bad as 6" so I went to the 60gn Vmax using 2206h (as suggested by the gun shop where I bought the rifle). This is a little better but the best grouping I can get is 2" at 100m. I'm now looking at heavier projectiles and this is where I'm in need of assistance. Having only ever loaded with with the lighter projectiles I'm not sure on case lengths etc. My current COL is 57.4mm, I tried looking online but all the information I can find relates to loads for rifles with a 1 in 12 twist. I would also like some info regarding powder, I currently use 2206h after getting advice from a local gun shop, when I questioned the burn rate and should I go for a slower burning powder with the heavier projectile the answer came back 'nah it'll be right' (I'm from Canberra so I have no confidence in the local gun shop).
Any advice will be greatly appreciated as I'm getting more and more frustrated and not enjoying my shooting at all at the moment.
User avatar
gilmc
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 18
Australian Capital Territory

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by Wm.Traynor » 11 Oct 2017, 1:51 pm

Your group sizes are disappointing as you say but is bedding involved? For instance, are the groups strung out vertically? I used 2206H in my 223 with 80 gn bullets without any trouble but it had a quicker twist. You could go to 70 gn at least. COL involves how well the ammo feeds from the mag as well as the overall length with the bullet seated against the rifling. When you get that last measurement subtract 0.030". Measure the internal length of the mag. If it is greater than the last COL then the ammo will fit. Try it out to see if they feed.
Vertical stringing can involve scope and mount screws, take-down bolts as well as bedding of action and barrel. The subject must be dealt with methodically and is time consuming. If you are really unlucky, the scope might have dead internal adjustments. We will help :thumbsup:
Wm.Traynor
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 921
Queensland

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by bladeracer » 11 Oct 2017, 2:23 pm

gilmc wrote:Hi all, I'm after some advice please. I have a Tikka T3 .223 with a 1 in 8 twist. I have been having issues with this rifle since new in regards to reloading. My previous rifles all had 1 in 12 twist and I reloaded with 50-55gn projectiles using either BM1 or 2206h and accuracy was never an issue. My Tikka however does not like any projectiles in the 50-55gn range (I've tried just about all of them) with grouping at 100m as bad as 6" so I went to the 60gn Vmax using 2206h (as suggested by the gun shop where I bought the rifle). This is a little better but the best grouping I can get is 2" at 100m. I'm now looking at heavier projectiles and this is where I'm in need of assistance. Having only ever loaded with with the lighter projectiles I'm not sure on case lengths etc. My current COL is 57.4mm, I tried looking online but all the information I can find relates to loads for rifles with a 1 in 12 twist. I would also like some info regarding powder, I currently use 2206h after getting advice from a local gun shop, when I questioned the burn rate and should I go for a slower burning powder with the heavier projectile the answer came back 'nah it'll be right' (I'm from Canberra so I have no confidence in the local gun shop).
Any advice will be greatly appreciated as I'm getting more and more frustrated and not enjoying my shooting at all at the moment.


Have you tried the 69-77gn bullets?
It might also work with a more heavily constructed 55-60gn bullet, the lightly-built VMax might not be hanging together due to the rotation.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
General
General
 
Posts: 5824
Victoria

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by juststarting » 11 Oct 2017, 2:24 pm

50gn bullet from 1:8 twist maybe a little lite. Maybe try some 69gn factory ammo, that works well in my browning (1:8, 223) and go up from there, 70, 77, 80.
---
https://reloadingstudio.com
User avatar
juststarting
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3225
Victoria

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Oct 2017, 9:41 pm

s**t I'm glad I bought a $530 Marlin.

Yep I agree, try heavier bullets.
Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: Better to load on the mild side. :o The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: "Often the written message doesn't convey all of the information"
User avatar
Oldbloke
General
General
 
Posts: 5547
Victoria

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by marksman » 12 Oct 2017, 7:27 am

if the rifle is under warranty send it back, the 8" twist should still shoot the lighter projectiles
do not modify the rifle in any way as you will bugger the warranty
and don't just keep trying everything on the shelf before you send it back
I think you will find it's not the ammo
User avatar
marksman
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2254
Victoria

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by BRNO_Bigot » 12 Oct 2017, 2:07 pm

Personally, I'd buy a few boxes of factory ammo of different weights and so on and give them each a go.

223 ammo is cheap enough and it'll stop the frustration building as your best efforts are laughed at by the rifle.

Personally, even though many people say 1:8 can't shoot light bullets accurately, I've never seen them falling apart like that - having the bullet overstabilised is not really a huge deal. I've fired .22 Hornet bullets in my 223 1:12 - where the hornet bullets are built to stabilise in a 1:16 barrel at lower velocity. I admit they were red-mist on ground squirrels in South Africa, so not recommended if you want to eat what you shoot.

If NONE of them give you any joy, maybe having the rifle looked at by a decent gunsmith will help - bedding, scope mounts, crown etc, etc ...
--
It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny
day that you realise how often they burst into flames.
User avatar
BRNO_Bigot
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 265
Australian Capital Territory

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by grandadbushy » 12 Oct 2017, 4:53 pm

First of all gilmc check if it is actually a 1-8 twist I had a 22-250 rebarrelled to 1-8 had all sorts of strife with it until somebody
on this forum suggested I do just that it turned out to be 1-12 if i'm not mistaken
grandadbushy
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1950
Queensland

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by Rikta » 12 Oct 2017, 5:45 pm

same as mine, im using 25gn 2206h and 55gn varmageddons getting abt 3250fps out of 24" barrel
Rem .270
Howa .223
Ruger 22lr
Lanber 12g
Rossi 410g
Rikta
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 191
Western Australia

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by Chronos » 12 Oct 2017, 6:05 pm

marksman wrote:if the rifle is under warranty send it back, the 8" twist should still shoot the lighter projectiles
do not modify the rifle in any way as you will bugger the warranty
and don't just keep trying everything on the shelf before you send it back
I think you will find it's not the ammo



If he's been shooting hand loads he's already blown his warranty.

I ran over 4000 rounds through my tikka 1:8" twist Varmint.

My go to load was 69gr Noslers over 23.2gr of BM2 for consistent .5 Moa groups with some around .3 Moa for 5 shots.

That's a target load and a little on the slow side but the rifle was stupid accurate and often hit a 1" spotter at 300m prone from a bipod, no rear bag.

I know you at want a hunting load so the Noslers may not suit but you should easily load it to sub Moa.

Chronos
.177 pellets through to .416 Ruger
User avatar
Chronos
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2288
New South Wales

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by Rikta » 12 Oct 2017, 6:13 pm

Chronos wrote:
marksman wrote:if the rifle is under warranty send it back, the 8" twist should still shoot the lighter projectiles
do not modify the rifle in any way as you will bugger the warranty
and don't just keep trying everything on the shelf before you send it back
I think you will find it's not the ammo



If he's been shooting hand loads he's already blown his warranty.

I ran over 4000 rounds through my tikka 1:8" twist Varmint.

My go to load was 69gr Noslers over 23.2gr of BM2 for consistent .5 Moa groups with some around .3 Moa for 5 shots.

That's a target load and a little on the slow side but the rifle was stupid accurate and often hit a 1" spotter at 300m prone from a bipod, no rear bag.

I know you at want a hunting load so the Noslers may not suit but you should easily load it to sub Moa.

Chronos


with the endless amounts of different factory ammo around how would they know if he has loaded his own or if it were factory?
Rem .270
Howa .223
Ruger 22lr
Lanber 12g
Rossi 410g
Rikta
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 191
Western Australia

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Oct 2017, 7:06 pm

"with the endless amounts of different factory ammo around how would they know if he has loaded his own or if it were factory?"

I've often wondered that. Unless you tellem they won't have a clue.
Hunt safe, look after the bush & plug more pests. :thumbsup: Better to load on the mild side. :o The greatest invention in the history of man is beer. :drinks: "Often the written message doesn't convey all of the information"
User avatar
Oldbloke
General
General
 
Posts: 5547
Victoria

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by gilmc » 13 Oct 2017, 7:01 am

Thanks everyone, in the middle of house painting hence the late reply (trust me I'd prefer to be at the range!). Now to answer some of the comments before the next coat. The rifle is 6 years old and has less than 500 rounds through it. I mainly hunt pigs, goats, foxes, roos (tagged of course) and long range bunnies but do very little range shooting. The type of projectiles I've tried so far with mixed results - Speer 55gn HPBT - Nosler 55gn ballistic tip - Hornady 55 & 60gn VMAX - Sierra 55gn SP, 60gn HP. Factory loads tested - Winchester 55gn SP (absolutely useless) - Sako 50&55gn gamehead (sprayed every where). Outback Ammo 69gn Matchking. The Outback Ammo has been the most successful for accuracy but at $35 a box from local store can be very expensive plus no good for hunting.
I thought the accuracy might have been me so got a friend to test it with same results. I did have success with Nolser ballistic tip 55gn using 24.5gn 2206h with .5moa at 100m but at 200m started to spray out to 4" random groups.
Wm.Traynor: magazine can only take rounds no more than 57.8. The scope is a Leupold VX1 and I've checked mounts seating etc. The property owner on my last shoot suggested trying another scope as he had issues with the Leupold. I'm going to put my old Tasco on and test that.
bladeracer: "Have you tried the 69-77gn bullets?" No, with these projectiles are they seated the same lenght as a 55gn projectile, this is were I'm getting confused about the overall case length for the larger projectiles, plus not sure if they fit in my magazines.
BRNO_Bigot: "If NONE of them give you any joy, maybe having the rifle looked at by a decent gunsmith will help - bedding, scope mounts, crown etc, etc ..." Problem in Canberra is finding a decent gunsmith, last one I went to ruined my previous .223.
Rikta: "My go to load was 69gr Noslers over 23.2gr of BM2 for consistent .5 Moa groups with some around .3 Moa for 5 shots. Do you seat these the same as a 55gn pill, what is the overall case lenght?
Thanks again all, I really appreciate the advice. Now back to the bloody painting! :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:
User avatar
gilmc
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 18
Australian Capital Territory

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by BRNO_Bigot » 13 Oct 2017, 9:09 am

Gunsmith - have you tried talking to Russ le Maitre?

I'm in Canberra myself, BTW.
--
It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny
day that you realise how often they burst into flames.
User avatar
BRNO_Bigot
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 265
Australian Capital Territory

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by gilmc » 13 Oct 2017, 9:23 am

BRNO_Bigot wrote:Gunsmith - have you tried talking to Russ le Maitre?

I'm in Canberra myself, BTW.


No didn't know about him. I will email him, thanks
User avatar
gilmc
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 18
Australian Capital Territory

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2017, 5:13 pm

gilmc wrote:bladeracer: "Have you tried the 69-77gn bullets?"

No, with these projectiles are they seated the same lenght as a 55gn projectile, this is were I'm getting confused about the overall case length for the larger projectiles, plus not sure if they fit in my magazines.[/quote]

No, ADI lists 2.26" for the 77gn which is inside your 57.8mm mag length.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
General
General
 
Posts: 5824
Victoria

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by Wm.Traynor » 13 Oct 2017, 7:04 pm

gilmc
It is about overall cartridge length; the loaded round from the base of the case to the bullet-tip. Measure the OCL with the bullet seated against the rifling. Shorten that length by 0.030" to give you some bullet jump to the lands and safe pressures for the starting loads. Try that length through the mag to see if it fits and try to chamber it.
Wm.Traynor
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 921
Queensland

Re: reloading .223 1in8 twist

Post by marksman » 13 Oct 2017, 7:11 pm

I have the impression that the rifle has never shot better than you have described, what I would be looking at is bedding, bolt lug contact, crown, trigger tuning
but if the barrel is a fowler and has been since you got it probably fire lapping, if this does not improve it replace the barrel
I have tweaked a couple of these and they do shoot very well before and after tweaking,
utube has a few vids on tweaking tikkas and how to get a longer OAL in your mag or you could try
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Blog/x_ ... 00064.html
User avatar
marksman
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2254
Victoria

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Reloading ammunition