2206H in M96!

[andym79]

Hi guys,

I have had limited success using 2205 and 2207 in my Swedish Mauser, shooting 140 grain cast projectiles. I prefer to fill up as much of a case as i can (mainly to avoid a double charge). I am looking for a reduced load that will fill enough of the case to make a double charge almost impossible, i.e. comes up to the top or overflows!

My reloading manual doesn't list it for 140 grain cast but, it is listed for a 140 grain jacketed projectile and Hodgdon write this

H4895 is AR2206H made by ADI, I have confirmed this with ADI.

"H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer
to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on the website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown."

As the maximum load listed for H4895 (AR2206H) is 36 grains; 60% is 22 grains, to avoid the possibility of a double charge 24 grains.

What do you guys think?

Is anyone using a load like that?

Thanks

[Weepy]

Out of curiosity, why did you start with 2205 and 2207 when ADI don't provide load data for this? Where did you get your data from?

We're talking about 6.5 x 55mm Swedish Mauser, right?

If case density is such a concern, why not try 2209 or something with higher case density to start with? Seems like you started on the worst end of the powder range for density with the super fine grain powders like 2205.

Starting powder charge for 2209 for 140gr pills is 36gr and your case will be much fuller.

[Norton]

If case density is such a concern, why not try 2209 or something with higher case density to start with? Seems like you started on the worst end of the powder range for density with the super fine grain powders like 2205.

My thoughts on 2206H as well.

IMO, just switch to a powder with a higher bulk density like 2209 or 2213SC and save yourself the headache.

Data is readily available for either powder.

Are you just starting with 2206H because you already have it, or... what?

[Monty]

Even go a step further and try AR2217.

46.5gr starting load and your cases will be near over flowing. No chance of a double charge.

[andym79]

I have used Trail Boss for this cartridge (I only got around 3 MOA at 100 yards) and others with more success.

I should have outlined at the beginning, I am looking to shoot this Swedish Mauser accurately out to 300 yards and I want to do it with cast (economics)!

I tried Ar2205 and 2207 because they are recommended in the Lyman reloading manual for 140 grain cast projectiles!
The requirements:

1) Accurate (3 MOA) out to 300 yards.

2) Almost impossible to double charge so 23 grains or more!

3) Preferably minimal leading of the bore.

4) Preferably without fillers, gas check separation has got me paranoid enough already!

Below is a 10 shot group, I shot this morning; disregard the 2 40 cal holes.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.p ... 1387862483

This is what I getting out of the M96 at around 1900 fps, 140 grain, gas checked, number 2 alloy, using AR2207, OAL 3.025" without a filler! Looking at those ten shots,this load won't get me out to 200 accurately and I trying for 300.

I have put around 300 shots down the barrel using various loads of Trail boss, AR2205 and AR2207. I have also tried different OALs and mild through to hard crimps. That's why I asked about H4895, generally from my experience more of a slower powder yields better results out a 300! I guess the 6.5X55 is a hard cartridge to load for cast. The 303 or 30-06 probably would have been a better choice.

Any help appreciated.

[Triang]

G'day Andy,

Just to check a few things off the list...

When you say you've tried 2205 and 2207, did you do a spread of loads from starting to max in 0.5gr intervals to narrow down the right load? What does "various loads" mean exactly?

I think you might be getting ahead of yourself experimenting with OAL and crimping before you've got the right charge worked out, that's just adding more variables to the mix.

For the reasons of case density and your own comments of slower burning powder being better, I'd still try 2209, 2213SC or 2217.

Maybe try 2209 first in fact? Truck loads of people using it with success in a range of calibres.

[Monty]

I tried Ar2205 and 2207 because they are recommended in the Lyman reloading manual for 140 grain cast projectiles!

I wouldn't get caught up on those just because they're mention in the Lyman manual. As I'm sure you've read elsewhere, what works for one rifle means nothing for another.

In terms of process I'd suggest the following... You may have already done a bit of this so far, but here it goes. Take it from wherever is appropriate.

This is for 1 bullet type only.

1) Start with a suitable powder.

2) Work up .5gr loads from min to max; e.g. if the data is 45gr - 47gr do loads 45.0, 45.5, 46.0, 46.5, 47.0

3) Just use max coal to start for all loads.

4) If none of the loads are promising, move onto a new power.

5) If a load is promising, say 46gr for example, repeat testing with loads of 45.8, 45.9, 46, 46.1 and 46.2 grains to fine tune the load.

6) Which ever is best keep it. If this is accurate enough, process over.


If you have to use these 140gr projectiles, repeat the above with different powders until you find the best one.

If you're open to trying different bullets, do the same above with 1 type of powder and the different bullets.

You may find the specific bullet you're using is part of the problem, and a different bullet could immediately perform better.


Hope that helps.

Happy to discuss further if needed too.

[andym79]

Hi guys, first happy new year.

I went to the range Monday; usually when refining loads, I like to shoot ten shot groups. On this occasion, I was going back to the drawing board. I loaded up 60 rounds (5 rounds of each load) using three different powders; the loads were designed to provide rounds with velocity running from 1400-1600 fps.

Well needless to say after the first two loads, I was thinking here we go again, I just love shooting my shotgun!

Then, and I swear I had tried this load before (only 18 months previously, and without a firm crimp) I got a five shot group that looked like it came out of a rifle.



I was for the first time smiling whilst using this rifle, though I don't want to count my chickens, this load will be getting trialed again soon with 10 rounds!

Another 15 rounds and three loads past, and again we where enjoying the choke-less shotgun experience! Then as before came another group which looked promising, using a different powder from the first.



The M96 produces more variation from a 1 grain difference in load than any other cartridge I have loaded for!

The sweet spot for velocity seemed to be around 1500 fps. Though I wish I could measure pressure or extrapolate it, as I suspect it has as much to do with grouping. There does not seem to be much data in reloading manuals for pressure in the 6.5x55 cartridge!

I will try and take it out again on Sunday and shoot ten shot groups of those two loads and loads within .2 grains either side of either.

G'day Andy,

Just to check a few things off the list...

When you say you've tried 2205 and 2207, did you do a spread of loads from starting to max in 0.5gr intervals to narrow down the right load? What does "various loads" mean exactly?

I think you might be getting ahead of yourself experimenting with OAL and crimping before you've got the right charge worked out, that's just adding more variables to the mix.

For the reasons of case density and your own comments of slower burning powder being better, I'd still try 2209, 2213SC or 2217.

Maybe try 2209 first in fact? Truck loads of people using it with success in a range of calibres.

Those are all very good powders for jacketed projectiles! In cast however they would need to be reduced, and as they are slow powders would need fillers to ensure their position next to the primer, with this I would be walking a fine line 20 grains of a slow powder is not a recommended load for a 6.5x55. With the 1:7.8 twist if I push the cast over 1800 fps we get close to an RPM threshold (at 1800 they are doing 166,000 rpm) and could come apart. Even hard lead has nothing on copper in this respect! Ideally they shouldn't exceed 1600 fps, ideal RPM for cast would be closer to 100,000 rpm; but with 1400-1800 fps, easy to achieve with a slow twist!

When I first got this rifle I was kind of aware of this, but then I got stuck in the 'velocity trap', if in ain't accurate push in harder. Till someone pointed out for an M96 you will have to push it slower!

[andym79]

Well once I got chance, it stopped being 40-45C and the biblical rain fall had ceased here in SA, and the Lever fever didn't have me in its grasp (I find it hard to want to shoot bolts when I have such beautiful levers that beg to be shot); I finally after weeks of threatening to, took the Mauser out again and shot 2 10 shoot groups at 100 yards. The load was AR2207 15 grains and 16 grains, the 15 grain load was the winner by around 1/2"!

I was happy with the load for 100 yard shooting (2 1/2" 10 shot group), it certainly would be in the kill zone for medium sized game!



I still don't think this load is 3 MOA compatible at 300 yards! But next time I go to the range with the M96 I am going to take it out to 200 and see what I get!

[Triang]

The M96 produces more variation from a 1 grain difference in load than any other cartridge I have loaded for!

A bit of a surprise I think when you see how much difference a little powder makes, even a difference of a lot less than a full grain.

When I started reloading for my .308 I was working through different loads of AR2208 and Hornady pills, and in a half grain step up it went from an inch group up to 3 inches.

Worked my way up the loads and near the top again had the same, from load to the next .5 increment of powder it went from the 3 inches back down to an inch again.

Not something a new shooter/reloader really appreciates until they find it themselves I don't think.

In my experience anyway.