Electronic Scales

[sungazer]

Its not a one sided story either

The balance beam doesn’t lie, and like you say, there is a certain amount of uncertainty with anything electronic.

There are plenty of sources for error in the balance beam as well. it is a good exercise to have a look at your method either way and look for things that could contribute an error.Write them all down and give them a value. I can give a whole uncertainties course but that is what you really need to do if your really Anal. otherwise an extra digit if it is stable is the way to go.
The cheaper scales like the Gempro were getting complaints about them being to sensitive. Well what do you expect when your measuring one milligram. So the manufacturer put in an averaging routine that slow the reading down. However it reduces accuracy and sensitivity. I am not about to pay $2000 for a god set of lab grade scales so I will do with the Chinese knock offs. Problem is you can add one kernel and the dampening circuit averages it out it wont change the displayed value untill it has changed about 0.005 gm or 5 milligrams.

[juststarting]

Thanks Tom. Yes it was the Hornady one I had trouble with too.
I generally load about 100 at a time and I think the balance beam scale would do my head in.

You are 110% correct. Been there, done that, not going back. I have both and I went through a few models of both.

To put it really simple, (brand new, 2nd hand is of course cheaper, sometimes by a lot) expect to pay at least $150 for good solid balance scales. And yes, they are mind numbingly slow.

Expect to pay $270+ for good digital scales. And yes, they do drift, but you see that on the dial and can recalibrate in 5 seconds. In fact, it's suggested you calibrate every so often regardless. Also, you want mains powered scales, not battery powered. You can have both, but battery only will go to sleep when idle - very annoying.

All high-precision scales will have issues, digital and balance. Room temperature for example will be a factor for both, air circulation, bench level and how you zero (balance) them.

There are also amazingly good digital scales for under $50 (drug dealers can't be wrong, ay), however the base plate is a bit small for a powder cup and you will end up hacking one yourself. Wen I used them, I used a cut down baby formula scoop.

Basic question here, is not how much you load, but how much are you willing to pay, once you get that under control, you will know what to buy. As far as digital vs manual, digital scales these days are just as precise and a lot faster, it's a better option, just need to know the budget to make a decision.

[juststarting]

p.s.
People on the Facebook reloading group often sell their unneeded gear a lot cheaper.

[straightshooter]

sungazer
You have summed things up fairly neatly.
My son recently did some research work with low cost load cells and found that sub gram resolution needs to be extracted from the noise. For milligram resolution you are far deeper in the noise. This means that accuracy and repeatability are entirely dependant on the mechanical structure and the settling algorithm used. Good luck with cheap units.

Scooter
Beam balances can and do suffer from problems ranging from hysteresis and or friction in the bearings to true positioning of the scales and counter weights and even the effect of air movement. Again less so in high quality (read expensive) units but more likely to be experienced in cheap units.

[bigfellascott]

What about a harrals powder thrower.

[marksman]

What about a harrals powder thrower.

these do work very well, but so do some of the cheaper ones
especially with a good ohaus balance scale
fark the electronics, dont blow yer farken head off

[Bills Shed]

Overall you tend to get what you pay for and with the cheaper electronic scales I would recommend getting a unit that has 10 times the resolution that you actually want to measure to. ie one extra decimal point. If you do that you are pretty well covered.

I agree with this totally. I too have worked in the quality industry and have not seen to many beam balances and having the extra point of resolution is very telling. When you have a lab grade balance and can measure to .02 of a grain, it evens out many errors very quickly.
You do need to look after them though. If you can not wait the 30 min to let it warm up,(at least), do not have a stable temp and your area is subject to drafts, you are wasting your money, get a beam balance. My room is not temp controlled and in Winter the temp can fluctuate quite a bit so the electronic balance never gets turned off, in Summer there are no problems.

Bill

[tom604]

they don't use beam scales in the bullet factory, they probably did when they were building pyramids but times change and i would bet a dollar or two that you would not notice if your load was 47.30 or 47.35 a half grain of powder would be unnoticeable for 90 percent plus of shooters , it may help if you have ocd but by the time you fiddle around with a pair of tweesers to pick out that offending grain you may find that its taken you all night to load five or so bullets

[Stix]

... ... :it may help if you have ocd but by the time you fiddle around with a pair of tweesers to pick out that offending grain you may find that its taken you all night to load five or so bullets

Tweasers...?!!?!
Just touch your very clean finger on your forehead (or somewhere that gets a little of the oil from your skin) & carefully dip it in the powder dish to pick up 3 granules--wipe 2 of them off with your thumb...
One second is all it takes mate...!

Gees sorry about that, that was my ocd talking...!!

[in2anity]

I’m a recent gen-6 convert; without the little constrictor insert it often has a .1gr variance, seems to be worse with bulkier powders like TB. With the constrictor in you get better accuracy, but it slows you down a lot (which somewhat defeats the purpose of the thing). Honestly that’s quite acceptable for me as Im mainly shooting metallic silhouette (with a bit of hunting on the side); even with such a discrepancy, accuracy is still plenty good enough out of all my rifles.

Oh and BTW I forgot to mention moving from a beam to this has changed my life! Soo much faster now!

[juststarting]

wipe 2 of them off with your thumb...
One second is all it takes mate...!

Gees sorry about that, that was my ocd talking...!!

So I have that OCD when I am loading for some of my rifles, it's pretty fast using good digital scales.

Stix, I thought I was the only one! That's pretty much what I do. Tweezers, sheesh.

[sungazer]

i just use a flat blade screwdriver to separate a granule from the heard and push him out of the pan back into the trickler. I don't want my sweat and oil inside the next case.

[Stix]

Juststarting...
There is always someone else...feels good to have someone else to 'come out' with eh...

I have the Hornady electronic scales that arent much chop for accurate charges, not only drifting but they cant make up their mind when trickling--they can pause then suddenly jump 3/10ths from adding just one granule, add the drift to this & velocity is all over the place, so i still use a beam scale--a near new redding one.

Its relatively quick considering, except when i trickle too slow & three or four granules fall out instead of one...thats annoying & time consuming...!!!

I noticed how inaccurate the Hdy scales are when loading 204 with Trailboss last weekend...
Shooting groups over a chrono gave me ES of up to 250fps...
I need good electronic scales.

[tom604]

i just use a flat blade screwdriver to separate a granule from the heard and push him out of the pan back into the trickler. I don't want my sweat and oil inside the next case.

^^^^^^^^this man has ocd,,the rest are just pretenders^^^^^^


and yes the hornady scales are rubbish

[Oldbloke]

Redding beam balance and DIY trickler.
To remove a few grains a tiny scoop made from a 22lr case.

But just thinking maybe a damp cotton bud?

[Mitch]

Seriously even a harrells thrower will give 0.3gr difference depending on person using it etc.

If you have the load correctly tuned, then anywhere up to 0.5gr should make pretty well no difference

[Stix]

Seriously even a harrells thrower will give 0.3gr difference depending on person using it etc.

If you have the load correctly tuned, then anywhere up to 0.5gr should make pretty well no difference

Yea apparently...that theory has never worked for me though...

[sungazer]

Oldbloke whatever you do don't do that. Seriously the moisture you put on however many grains will cause humidity or dampness in the case and effect the combustion. I do know a guy or two who has reloaded their cases too soon after wet tumbling and had only about a third go off all over the shop as well. There was probably a lot more moisture in their cases but its no good. Keep to you original method. No water near the bench.

[Oldbloke]

Oldbloke whatever you do don't do that..

Obviously wet powder is an issue. But I was thinking a Damp bud

Is that enough to cause ignition failure if just a few grains are removed that way and they find their way into another case.?

The moisture would be spread over the other few hundred granuals.

[sungazer]

I know I am saying it without exceptions only because I don't know and I don't think could ever pass on that skill in a post. But I would assume the powder would absorb the moisture and you would continually wetting buds. Like wetting your fingers in a bank counting notes "A day dream or wish it were mine"
Although when having that odd case that spills its guts in your chamber i have found the carby cleaner leaves them very hard and easy to get out they stick together but retain there form. I haven't tried and water or oils on them to see if they get squishy.

[tom604]

Oldbloke whatever you do don't do that..

Obviously wet powder is an issue. But I was thinking a Damp bud

Is that enough to cause ignition failure if just a few grains are removed that way and they find their way into another case.?

The moisture would be spread over the other few hundred granuals.

not a problem if you dip them in petrol, i'm an ideas man

[Flyer]

I bought an RCBS Chargemaster Lite on special but kept my RCBS beam scale as a cross reference.

I'm OCD, so while the Chargemaster Lite is throwing the next charge, I check the previous one on the beam scale before I load (target loads, not hunting).

Once warmed up and calibrated, the Chargemaster Lite always throws within 0.1gr with only one over- or under-throw about every 20 loads. In fact, I loaded 50 rounds the other night and had just one underthrow and no overthrows. Most throws were within about 0.05gr according to my beam scale (half a white line).

For the money, I've been impressed with its performance. It's stock, too - no straws or other tricks - but maybe a little bit slower than a modified Chargemaster 1500 from what I've seen online. I gave my Uniflow to a friend.

[JimTom]

Nice one Flyer. sounds like a great bit of kit to have on the bench.

[Holstered]

I'm new to the reloading game (6mths). When looking for scales late last year I did a lot of research and discovered the GemPro250 or more so their 30yr warranty is what captured my attention.

I got mine from Melbourne based supplier at www.medshop.com.au (& no I'm not related to them ). Accuracy is to 0.01 grains and has served me well thus far for 9mm pistol reloading.

I run mine on mains power and turn it on for nearly 30mins before use to warm up the load cell and am mindful of air current near the unit..

I use a Dillon Square Deal B press and check my powder on the scales during the process and all good so far.