Primers

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Primers

Post by Member-Deleted » 03 Feb 2018, 11:51 am

I have been looking at a few spots about primers and what keeps popping up is that different primers should be
used as required by the loading manual for that caliber and a given powder type
I'm getting good grouping at 100yds like most days .5 - .7 even down to .3 but at 400yds they tend to float about a bit
I've tried 200yds and its like the 400yds groups can be from 4'' to 6'' and fliers to 8''
the load I use requires Winchester mag primers according to the loading manual
I'm wondering if it is right what is being said about manual requirements of what primers with a given powder to caliber
I've tried at 2213sc, at 2217, at 2225, reloader 22 the best I've got yet is at 2217 @ 67gr , 162gr ELD-X
Primers rem 91/2 mag, cci 250 the best is cci 250 so far
then along came a bloke who said I could bring my groups in at 400yds if I use the primer required by the manual
I've put a lot over the chrony and got a difference of 80fps even in separate batches of powder - primer
Could anybody shine a light on this at all I know there are a lot of variables that could cause this but I've tried to eliminate them
and came to a dead end which brings me to the primer thing
any help would be greatly received

Cheers
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Re: Primers

Post by sungazer » 03 Feb 2018, 11:58 am

What Calibre are you loading?
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Re: Primers

Post by Member-Deleted » 03 Feb 2018, 12:04 pm

Sh@#t sorry mate its 7mm rem mag 26'' barrel
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Re: Primers

Post by sungazer » 03 Feb 2018, 12:33 pm

Different primers can vary the ignition rate. But I would be very surprised if it would have the effect of changing any grouping size in a non linear way. The 80fps ES is something I would be trying to reduce. But you will only see this on paper at longer distances in the vertical. You can see the effect if you plug your numbers in JBM and look at the drops at the given distance. Sorry not much help.
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Re: Primers

Post by Member-Deleted » 03 Feb 2018, 1:05 pm

Thanks Sungazer every little bit helps I have just this minute acquired some Winchester mag primers so will try them
today and see how I go
Thanks and cheers
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Re: Primers

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 1:19 pm

I don't have any experience with Magnum Cartridges and the required Primers but I wonder how the CCI BR2's would go. They are the Benchrest version of the CCI 200 and used in my Sako .243W they make a big difference in maintaining consistent tight groups when target shooting. Maybe worth a try if you can find some to test.

I don't think Reloading Manuals quote a certain primer because they have tested different one's. I think it's quoted because that's what they used when conducting their load testing with a number of powders, loads, bullets.
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Re: Primers

Post by sungazer » 03 Feb 2018, 2:50 pm

As above and they are not giving loads based on any accuracy just on pressure. The non magnum primers should work but the case is about 10 mm longer than a 308 case so the primer might not have enough umph. On the other hand it may lower ES, SD just as the small rifle primers can do in a 308 case. I did find that using the palma case with a 1.5 mm flash hole when I enlarged it to 1.6 mm I got 20fps more MV and a lower SD. The Large rifle primer flash hole are 1.8 mm from memory. Check they are all consistent it will effect ES.
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Re: Primers

Post by Member-Deleted » 03 Feb 2018, 4:22 pm

Thanks Apollo i'll try and chase some up BR2's worth a try
Yeah Sungazer I wasn't aware that that's how it was I thought that it was the best combination of powder and primer
they could find
Yes I will check the flash holes the brass is norma
I just got back a few moments ago from trying the Winchester and federal primers, so the Winchester were exactly the same as the
cci 250 in grouping .5'' - .7'' but a little hotter judging by the colour at the neck and the federal shot .75'' - 1'' not real good
I will try the ones with Winchester out to 200 and 400 yds tomorrow and see how they go and some BR2's if I can get some
Ya know a few weeks ago I thought I had a load .3'' - .5'' new barrel now after about 75-100 rounds it looks as though the barrel
has worn in and the load may need altering a little by the looks
Thanks everybody

cheers
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Re: Primers

Post by Apollo » 03 Feb 2018, 4:32 pm

Not a 308 Palma but with a 6.5x47L those I have heard of that touched the flash hole lost accuracy. I just check every new case to make sure there is nothing in the flash hole, never found anything so far in a Lapua Case. I do batch cases by weight and shoot them in increasing order of weight.

My thinking on the primers was that the Benchrest type are of a higher consistent standard and the results could also be a bit tighter because of that.

As I said, no idea. Never shot a Magnum Bolt Face anything.
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Re: Primers

Post by brett1868 » 03 Feb 2018, 5:13 pm

You can also try Federal GM215M with is their large rifle magnum match primer. I use these in the 338Lap & 375Cheytac and they seem to be the most consistent so far.
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Re: Primers

Post by marksman » 03 Feb 2018, 8:18 pm

brett1868 wrote:You can also try Federal GM215M with is their large rifle magnum match primer. I use these in the 338Lap & 375Cheytac and they seem to be the most consistent so far.


these are the mag primers I use and they are very good IMO :thumbsup:
IMO I don't think the primer will be the magic trick though to get better es but I could be wrong, nothing reloading is written in stone :unknown:
good luck with it grandadbushy :thumbsup:
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Re: Primers

Post by Member-Deleted » 03 Feb 2018, 9:47 pm

Yeah checked all flash holes all look ok
I tried Fed GM215 M PRIMERS with same load and they opened to 1'' but mind you it was with 1 minimum load
will do more testing with them
I'm starting to think you might be right marksman every thing I've tried shoots easy good enough for hunting maybe
i'm trying to push the cart too hard and should stick with the .5'' after all its not a 22-250 but i'd still like to solve the 200 - 400yrd
thing
Also I just stripped the barrel and chamber away from the stock and found a rub mark in the stock under the barrel about 8''
in front of the chamber this would have been done when the gun was damaged in transit it was supposed to have been fixed
the fore end was bent up 5mm or more it would have had to have bent the inner aluminium frame I presume they flipped the
stock over and pressed it back into place creating this bulge enough to put pressure on the barrel so i'm thinking this could have
been the problem at distance
I'll file it down and see what happens tomorrow
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Re: Primers

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Feb 2018, 8:06 pm

G'day all i'd like to thank you all for all the good advice with the primer problem awhile back I actually tinkered with
almost all of it, did cost a little bit but its piece of mind for me :thumbsup:
I ended up going back to the cci 250 mag primer as it was the most consistent , then started playing with bullet
seating moving it closer to the lands I ended up just touching the lands and this pic shows what I ended up with
at 100yds :D
I also filed off the place where the stock was touching the barrel before testing but it still took awhile to end up with
what I got
The orange is the one I started with and the green is where I finished up
cheers
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Re: Primers

Post by sungazer » 14 Feb 2018, 8:25 pm

That looks pretty good. Its nice to have the confidence that you gun shoots where you want it to. Then you just need to get to know the gun a bit more at distances learning the drops by heart. Thats the next level of confidence that you can take out when hunting. I nearly always have a little drop sheet in my pocket just to check.
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Re: Primers

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Feb 2018, 8:45 pm

Yeah sungazer that sounds like a good idea the drop chart I've got it in a book but it would be too big to take bush
I might do a pocket size one like you said and laminate it to save it from sweat and rain
I'll be trying a bit of distance tomorrow we'll see how it goes
I know my 22-250 like a third arm probably shoot the eye out of a needle ''LOL'' and i'm used to 303's 30-30's 243 but
when you go to long distance and heavy calibers and reloading them there is so much involved and to learn
I think it has been said on this forum before that when it comes to rifles and reloading you'll always be learning
But GEEZ I'm 63 and I've gotta start all over again with the 7mm mag '' LOL ''

Cheers mate
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