Powder thrower accuracy

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Roo farmer » 09 Feb 2018, 7:38 pm

What is a realistic expectation of accuracy from a powder thrower, when using ADI AR2208 and AR2206H?

I have an old Lyman 55 that has dispensed many tens of thousands of powder charges. It is accurate to about 0.2 or 0.3 of a grain. This is adequate, however I have always thought it should be better.

I have a new Lyman 55 that I am unable to trust, as it is only accurate to within 3 or 4 grains. Throwing light charges into the scale pan and trickling up to weight gets old very fast. I only bought it to save all the fooling around changing charge rate for different cartridges. Yes I am using the knocker.

Although the original Lyman was okay, I wasn't all that happy with how much you have to force the handle to chop the powder granules that jam the mechanism.

So I bought a Hornady Lock N Load. Mainly because it was on special for $109, and I thought something different would be worth a try. It has a different type of metering chamber which doesn't jam as much, but its accuracy is worse than the old original Lyman. It throws charges with a range of up to 0.6 of a grain variation.

Charges are 25.4 grains of AR2206H, and 36.0 grains of AR2208. These are for hunting and I will not trickle every single charge and tip it down a funnel.

So what accuracy can I expect?

Any better brands or models?

Is the only solution to change to a different type of powder?
Roo farmer
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
South Australia

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Stix » 09 Feb 2018, 8:55 pm

I really cant be of help roo farmer, but i feel your pain.
I too have the Hornady thrower, and it is a bit ordinary--on average mine is .3 out, but it can be up to .6 like yours.

All i do is trickle up--im pretty fast at it now.

Ive found BM2 to be more accurate through the thrower...but it seems thats a powder thing as a few others at the range have said the same using different throwers.

Sorry i cant be of more help--but ill be watching to see what people say...!
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Gamerancher » 10 Feb 2018, 8:12 am

Stick powders have always been troublesome in powder throwers, it's just the nature of the beast. You can either put up with the variances or trickle up every charge.
Q. Does the variance really effect the overall accuracy of the load for the purpose you use it for?
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Wm.Traynor » 10 Feb 2018, 10:06 am

FWIW, the Omega 2-Speed Powder Trickler appealed to me.
https://dandtproductsllc.com
YMMV :)
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by anthillinside » 10 Feb 2018, 10:27 am

Hi Roo Farmer,
I think you're probably doing pretty well at +- 0.3gr
I use a couple of Lee (not) Perfect Powder Measures for single stage. and I have a Dillon progressive.
The Dillon you have to take it as it comes but there are a few tricks , I get +- 0.4gr
With the Lee I can get +-0.1gr if I try hard
This "might" help a "little" , get anal and become a robot.
Consistancy is the trick.
Keep the hopper between 50 -75% full, strangely enough it tends to throw heavier as it emptys ?!
I have a ltttle ritual;
Pick up case, weigh it (I've got a digital scale with a single button Zero)
Case under thrower,
Throw the lever with a little force, down to the stop, ... tap,tap with a finger on the side of the drum.
Throw the lever with a little force, back up, . tap,tap with a finger on the side of the drum.
Weight the case, in speck case to loading block, out of speck ... rinse and repeat.
It's quicker to dump the load and re charge the case than trying to add/remove 0.2 gr
You quickly get into a rythm.
Prime x 100
Powder x 100
Seat x 100
Crimp x 100
It gets tedious so I rarely do more than 100 at a time, sometimes only 50
If I have a lot to do or feel lazy (which is pretty often) I'll use the Dillon.
I've done a little load development on +-0.1 increments but didn't see any real difference over 3gr on a 41-43gr 308 load of 2206H
One of my "Things to do" is spend some time behind the Crony with a heap of differnt loads.

Reloading like shooting, go as far as you want, you only have to make yourself happy.
:drinks:
There's always room for at least one more gun in my safe.
There's always room for one more safe in my house.
User avatar
anthillinside
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 375
Victoria

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Gamerancher » 10 Feb 2018, 10:41 am

Always leave your thrower in the "down" or empty position. Leaving it up where it fills will lead to greater variances. Bumping the bench or thrower will cause settling of the charge leading to variations. As stated above, consistency, rhythm is key to accurate throwing of charges. Some throwers also tend to become inaccurate once the hopper falls below a certain level, I've used expensive "benchrest" quality throwers that weren't worth sh!t once the hopper fell below about the 30% of full level. I get better consistency out of a cheap ar$e Lee.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by sungazer » 10 Feb 2018, 11:29 am

Any idea why leaving it up causes variances. I think I leave mine up but haven't noticed any degradation. I was loading with 8208 the other day, that really gave me some great results out of the thrower. I guess it should have been expected as it was designed for that.
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Gamerancher » 10 Feb 2018, 12:30 pm

I have found , as I said above, that leaving it in the "fill" position can lead to variances due to inadvertently bumping the bench or thrower which tends to settle the powder.
This can lead to a change in charge weight. I find that a good consistent up-fill-down-charge works best for me, whether I'm loading 3.5 grains of pistol powder or 105 grains of blackpowder. As with all things, your results may vary.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by bladeracer » 10 Feb 2018, 2:06 pm

anthillinside wrote:This "might" help a "little" , get anal and become a robot.
Consistancy is the trick.
Keep the hopper between 50 -75% full,


This works for me with the Lee thrower.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by bladeracer » 10 Feb 2018, 2:09 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:FWIW, the Omega 2-Speed Powder Trickler appealed to me.
https://dandtproductsllc.com
YMMV :)


https://dandyproductsllc.com/
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by anthillinside » 10 Feb 2018, 2:25 pm

"Settling the powder" thats what my "Tap Tap" on the drum is for.
When I started I was using a balance scale and was weighing every throw, I found I was frequently topping up charges, rarely where they over.
The way you do it is the best way for you to do it as long as it's giving you the results you want.
If not try something else.
I'll try anything 5 times!
There's always room for at least one more gun in my safe.
There's always room for one more safe in my house.
User avatar
anthillinside
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 375
Victoria

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by marksman » 10 Feb 2018, 3:27 pm

I use the tap tap method as well with a very old lee thrower then trickle if needed
the finer powders do work better
if I were to buy another it would be a lee, quick enough for me :drinks:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Roo farmer » 10 Feb 2018, 3:38 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Always leave your thrower in the "down" or empty position. Leaving it up where it fills will lead to greater variances. Bumping the bench or thrower will cause settling of the charge leading to variations. As stated above, consistency, rhythm is key to accurate throwing of charges. Some throwers also tend to become inaccurate once the hopper falls below a certain level, I've used expensive "benchrest" quality throwers that weren't worth sh!t once the hopper fell below about the 30% of full level. I get better consistency out of a cheap ar$e Lee.


That's how I operate the Lyman. The Hornady however, has the handle in the down position when the chamber is in the fill position. It dispenses when you lift the handle up. You can't leave it in the empty position with the handle up because the weight of the handle will fall back down.
Roo farmer
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
South Australia

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Roo farmer » 10 Feb 2018, 3:48 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Stick powders have always been troublesome in powder throwers, it's just the nature of the beast. You can either put up with the variances or trickle up every charge.
Q. Does the variance really effect the overall accuracy of the load for the purpose you use it for?


The old Lyman, no doesn't affect it enough to really matter.

The new Lyman, which is only good to within several whole grains, I consider to be actually dangerous.

The Hornady, well I am only at the testing stage and was surprised how bad it was and so haven't seated any projectiles, and began this discussion instead. If my aim is for 25.4 grains and I unknowingly loaded one at 0.6 heavier than it should be, then I am closer to maximum loads than I would like, regardless of accuracy.

Seems kind of pointless to do hand weighed trials at 0.2 grain intervals to decide on the best group, when the powder thrower accuracy varies so much.
Roo farmer
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
South Australia

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by Roo farmer » 10 Feb 2018, 4:00 pm

Another difference, is that the distance from the metering chamber to the outlet on the Lyman is about twice as long as on the Hornady, resulting in powder thrown from the Lyman settling in the case much better. The Hornady thrown charges would actually end up as compressed.
Roo farmer
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
South Australia

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by deanp100 » 10 Feb 2018, 4:45 pm

I use Lyman 55's as well and I reckon I probably get .1-.2 out of them. I think they are great. A variation of 3-4 grains is disastrous . There must be something missing or amiss inside surely.
deanp100
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 425
Queensland

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by sungazer » 10 Feb 2018, 5:14 pm

:lol: I thought you meant when the day was done and leaving the powder thrower in a position for a week or two may have an effect. got it quite the wrong way around. :D
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by marksman » 10 Feb 2018, 6:32 pm

IMHO when throwing small amounts like you are even a .2 gr difference can throw your shot out, depends on what you expect I suppose
it is important to me to get it right and I have tried a harrels comp thrower that was out by up to .2 gr until I did the tap tap and kept the hopper over half full
gamerachers advise is pretty spot on regarding consistency and rhythm :thumbsup:

by the way I really like your username, but I have met a few farmers who call themselves roofarmers :clap: :lol: :lol:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by JimTom » 11 Feb 2018, 6:40 am

I have an old Redding powder thrower which generally throws around .2gn of what I am looking for. I set it to throw just under what I am looking for and then use a trickler to get it spot on. Well as close as practical anyway.
I know it’s a long slow painful process but once I’ve trickled the powder in I then remove the pan, and reweigh to get it as accurate as possible.
When loading a few hundered it is like extracting teeth though, and I wished I had taken people’s advice from a previous thread and purchased a Lyman 6 or similar.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by sungazer » 11 Feb 2018, 8:16 am

Mate dont worry it not really about the quality of the thrower. The problem is that they all use (other than a few Hybrids) a volume metric method. This is where the problem lies not with the thrower. The amount of powder is always going to be a little bit different depending on the way it falls. Thats why the smaller granular powders were made to get a better measure. I think they may suffer the problem of becoming to compacted if stored for any length of time standing up or down and constant transport in the same position.
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Powder thrower accuracy

Post by straightshooter » 12 Feb 2018, 7:45 am

Agonising over powder thrower precision is mostly a waste of time, particularly if all your shooting is at short to medium ranges.
The effect of slight variations in powder weight is generally overwhelmed by other variations in your loaded rounds. (You would need at least some appreciation of statistical analysis to grasp the significance of why so.)
Nonetheless if you want to minimize the effect of powder thrower variation at minimum cost try this simple method, you will however need digital scales with a tare function.
First decide what level of weight consistency is acceptable, let's say for example target weight plus/minus 0.1 grains.
1. Place your primed empty case on the scale and press zero.
2. Drop your powder into the case.
3. Place the charged case back on the scale and check the weight.
4. If the indicated charge weight is in the acceptable range then load the projectile.
5. If the indicated charge weight is outside the acceptable range then empty the powder into the hopper and go back to step 2.
This method is very straightforward and quick and automatically compensates for drift in the scale electronics and allows you to make slight tweaks in the volume setting of your thrower as the level of powder in the hopper changes.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales


Back to top
 
Return to Reloading ammunition