How do you anneal your cases...?

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How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Stix » 02 May 2018, 12:18 am

The volume of cases i need to anneal is mounting & i need to do something about it.

Curious to know how you anneal your cases...?

I see a gazzillion vids of diy case annealers on yhoo chooob...
Has anyone built their own case annealer & got any advice, plans, tips etc...particularly anything related to saving time is a plus for me--especially time navigating ebay buying electronic chinese bits...!
Cheers
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by YoungBuck » 02 May 2018, 4:24 am

+1 to this. My number of multiple fired cases is growing and I'm also interested to hear how others do this on the cheap.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by bigfellascott » 02 May 2018, 5:36 am

Never done it, still using cases that are around 30yrs old (222) the primer pockets seem to wear out (get loose) more than anything else I've noticed.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Gwion » 02 May 2018, 5:37 am

Have a look here:
enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8494
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by nightforcenxs » 02 May 2018, 8:21 am

im saving my pennies for one of them AMP annealing made perfect machines i tryed the blow torch and failed each time
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by marksman » 02 May 2018, 9:00 am

I use a plumbers gas torch, the blue bottle one
I have in the past used a small paint brush handle in the primer pocket to hold the case
but for quite a while I have used a socket on a cordless drill to hold the case as the drill slowly turns the case
the flame is held on the shoulder/neck region, only wanting to heat up the top of the shoulder and neck
IMO you are better to anneal at night as the light is better for seeing change in colour, especially with a white background
first you see the case dry out, then a gold colour followed by a blue tinge before the case goes a red glow, I like to stop at the blue tinge
then I drop the case on my clean wooden bench to cool,
once you have done a couple you will have figured out how many seconds to turn them in the flame
you get a sort of rhythm going and do your count in your head, its not really difficult, I have shown my method to a few people who use it

some people have told me about dropping your case into water or standing it up in water so you dont heat up the case head
I believe that this does sound like good advise but is a Myth IMO and is not necessary
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Stix » 02 May 2018, 10:36 am

Gwion wrote:Have a look here:
enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8494


Thanks Gwion...!
I did actually look at that before i posted...
Admittedly i only had a quick look at the plans & material list, call me lazy, but i got the impression it would take me 100 times longer to interpret them & navigate ebay to order the bits than actually build it.

Building it shouldnt be an issue, but honestly, im just not built for navigating that ebay internet stuff--id be better off paying someone to order the gear for me...cos id be there for days & then end up with a few of the wrong bits from china & broken computer...!
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by bigrich » 02 May 2018, 11:48 am

How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Rod_outbak » 02 May 2018, 12:13 pm

Stix,

I'm about to build my own blow-torch annealer; pretty sure I have assembled the gear I should need, and then some extra odds & ends to tweak the design.
It might be a month or so before I'm underway, but I should have an idea of what gear I've bought will work, and what is a waste of time.
The parts required have been a confusing mess to figure out, and it's been pretty frustrating at times.
[If you do go the path of making your own, let me know if you'd like a short length of nylon rod, to use for the drum that picks up a case from the hopper. I ended up buying a metre of heat-tolerant nylon rod 80mm diameter, and I'm pretty darn sure I wont ever use half of it. It's supposed to be tolerant of temps up to around 100 degrees.
See http://www.engineeringplasticsonline.co ... ory/30-rod for specs]

I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Rod.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by brett1868 » 02 May 2018, 1:47 pm

marksman pretty much nailed it for the budget approach and is correct in that brass doesn't need to be quenched in water. I invested in the Vertex Benchsource annealing machine, the one that looks like an old school record player. It'll hand anything from 17Hornet up to 50BMG with no further investment required unlike the AMP machine which costs almost double and needs case specific shell holders. I did notice they have updated the software where the machine can now self learn new cases, Aztec mode is what they are calling it. Depending on how much you have and how often you're thinking to anneal then possibly it's cheaper to outsource the job to some one local.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by sungazer » 02 May 2018, 3:03 pm

I use a turning method and a MAP gas torch the yellow one and then drop them into water. The turning method is much better than the standing them in water as it heats the case evenly. Yes cooling down can be done quickly or slowly apparently it doesn't matter with brass. I am having a play with a cheap ebay induction coil will see how that goes.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by bigrich » 02 May 2018, 3:45 pm

bigrich wrote:How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated


any opinions on this ? after every 4-5 reloads is what i've read :unknown:
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by bigrich » 02 May 2018, 4:33 pm

brett1868 wrote:marksman pretty much nailed it for the budget approach and is correct in that brass doesn't need to be quenched in water. I invested in the Vertex Benchsource annealing machine, the one that looks like an old school record player. It'll hand anything from 17Hornet up to 50BMG with no further investment required unlike the AMP machine which costs almost double and needs case specific shell holders. I did notice they have updated the software where the machine can now self learn new cases, Aztec mode is what they are calling it. Depending on how much you have and how often you're thinking to anneal then possibly it's cheaper to outsource the job to some one local.


i looked this up brett1868, flash bit of gear. out of my price range but.think i'll try the plumbers torch as suggested by another poster :thumbsup:
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by sungazer » 02 May 2018, 5:10 pm

Just dont think more is better. i have this tendency and really have to keep it in mind. You just want to get the brass turning to a pink colour that is plenty hot enough. I have ordered a couple of the Tempilstiks from amazon in different temps so I can relate the colour to the temp more accurately.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P1 ... UTF8&psc=1
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Rod_outbak » 02 May 2018, 5:27 pm

Bigrich,

A mate of mine uses a Giraurd annealer, but he does a lot of reloading.

He says to get a bottle each of the 700F and the 450F Tempilaq:
https://www.australiantacticalprecision ... -annealing

He tells me that when figuring out annealing times, the 700F Tempilaq gives you the temp you need the neck to reach, wheras you paint some of the 450F stuff on the body; just below the shoulder.
Ideal annealing will have the neck reach the correct temp, wheras the body shouldnt get hot enough to change.

Not 100% I have that exactly right, but my mate was saying I'll need something like this to get my timing and temps right; especially with a blow-torch.

Cheers,

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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by sungazer » 02 May 2018, 5:48 pm

There is a good article on 6mmbr http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html however they dont really give the nitty gritty correct temp for torches or induction if you are only going to heat for a few seconds.

"The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft."
Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:

So they really avoid the critical temp for a few seconds as 662 for 15 min yet 950-200=750 and its ruined so you are left to make your own conclusions

Found this down the bottom which may help
With this setup, the neck will actually reach a temperature between 750 and 800 degrees. Remember, it's the combination of time AND temperature that does the job. We have raised the temperature sufficiently to be able to anneal the case necks in 6 to 8 seconds
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by YoungSC » 02 May 2018, 8:19 pm

sungazer wrote:I use a turning method and a MAP gas torch the yellow one and then drop them into water. The turning method is much better than the standing them in water as it heats the case evenly. Yes cooling down can be done quickly or slowly apparently it doesn't matter with brass. I am having a play with a cheap ebay induction coil will see how that goes.


I'd appreciate if you shared your findings as they progress. I recently put an order down for my first centrefire and have been researching induction coils over the last few days. I saw some of the ebay coils and was thinking of combing with a power supply, pump, timer and solenoid based trap door. Once I've bought some reloading equipment of course.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Stix » 02 May 2018, 8:20 pm

marksman wrote:I use a plumbers gas torch, the blue bottle one
I have in the past used a small paint brush handle in the primer pocket to hold the case
but for quite a while I have used a socket on a cordless drill to hold the case as the drill slowly turns the case
the flame is held on the shoulder/neck region, only wanting to heat up the top of the shoulder and neck
IMO you are better to anneal at night as the light is better for seeing change in colour, especially with a white background
first you see the case dry out, then a gold colour followed by a blue tinge before the case goes a red glow, I like to stop at the blue tinge
then I drop the case on my clean wooden bench to cool,
once you have done a couple you will have figured out how many seconds to turn them in the flame
you get a sort of rhythm going and do your count in your head, its not really difficult, I have shown my method to a few people who use it

some people have told me about dropping your case into water or standing it up in water so you dont heat up the case head
I believe that this does sound like good advise but is a Myth IMO and is not necessary


...i was going to go down that path (same as you), then i saw these machines on the chooob after seeing Gwions post in the thread a year or so back--& i really like the idea of the time being spot on for every case--especially if it can be made for cheap...!!! Ill probably still buy the torch, but im really liking the machine thing, but thought id ask the people... :D
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