How do you anneal your cases...?

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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 18 Sep 2018, 9:03 pm

So you reckon both the lee neck die and FLS die is screwed in too much and over time causing the case to bulge...hmm I'll look into it
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by marksman » 19 Sep 2018, 9:48 am

it could be but you can confirm whether or not by measuring before and after, it has to be a fired in your chamber case to find out
just having a 5 thou increase in diameter from saami spec would not make the case harder to chamber
here is a saami spec diagram to show what the measurements should be (roughly) depends on the reamer used
Image
the bulging happens from one time sizing, it doesn't happen over time because your case forms to the chamber each firing
so you have a fresh start every time you shoot the case but it may take 5 shots from neck sizing to get your cases to perfectly form to your chamber
if your die is screwed down to much it can crush below the neck so you get a bulge or mushrooming effect
that's what you should be checking for and the answer is don't screw the die down so far, if this is the problem
I hope you are understanding what I am talking about and in regard of the die it doesn't matter who makes it this can happen with any brand
let me know if the cases are bulged? :drinks:
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 19 Sep 2018, 6:16 pm

Thanks mate. I'll loosen the die
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by PoorShot300 » 29 Nov 2018, 6:57 am

It's been a while Ziad, what's been your experience? Did backing the die off work? Did you get that flame issue sorted? You were going to change the tip?

I am just getting into reloading so have read the whole thread,...how about an update please?
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Stix » 13 May 2019, 9:05 pm

Ok...i finally sent my faulty gas torch back & swapped it for a torch thst can take a fine point flame tip.

So i want to try anneal some Rem 22-250 cases & see if that cures the random stiff seating & flyers ...

So whats the consensus on annesling dirty brass...?
Can i anneal this stuff without sending it through the wet tumbler first...?
Or do i have to knock out the primers & tumble it to clean carbon off inside of necks before the flame...?
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by marksman » 13 May 2019, 10:26 pm

size,clean and fully prep the brass first because you do not want to collapse necks or cause inconsistency Stix
that's how I do it and remember where to watch for the colour change :drinks:
if you want some old brass to play with first pm me and I'll send you a bag :thumbsup:

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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Stix » 13 May 2019, 10:36 pm

So can you nexk size after marksman...?

I just figure if the brass is hard & i size them before annealing, they will spring back after sizing so will require sizing again after annealing...?

Am i making sense...? :unknown:

Thanks for the offer of brass--ill check what ive got & get back to you.
The offer is appreciated... :drinks:
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by marksman » 14 May 2019, 8:05 am

you can neck size after but I dont like to
I anneal after prep, clean the neck up a bit inside as I dont like the dry scratchy seating then load
I have had necks collapse when sizing after annealing but have found they are ok and dont collapse after the first firing :drinks:
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by SCJ429 » 14 May 2019, 8:30 am

Good question about depriming and cleaning your cases. I have always thought that they should be but cannot think how it would negatively effect the process if you didn't.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Stix » 14 May 2019, 8:42 am

Ok cheers...
Decisions decisions...
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Oldbloke » 14 May 2019, 1:11 pm

I do the same as marksman but hold it with a piece of wooden dowel with a hole drilled in the end. Same result.

However that one in the image above looks way too hot. Neck & shoulder only needs to change to a dark blue colour. I do it in semi darkness, any glow and its out of the flame ASAP. Usually a count to 5 is enough.

No need to quench, just drop on the bench its brass not carbon steel.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Apollo » 14 May 2019, 2:05 pm

marksman wrote:I have had necks collapse when sizing after annealing but have found they are ok and dont collapse after the first firing.


By looking at your photo I'd say that case is well over annealed and in my view explains the collapsed case neck result. Now, I have never annealed cases using a blow torch of any description. In the past I used to get them done by someone using a Bench-Source twin head machine and I never saw a case that had annealing marks any further down the case body than just under the shoulder. Just like brand new Lapua Cases with their annealing marks.

Then I purchased an AMP Induction Annealer, had quite a few cases tested by AMP using their Vickers Hardness tester to establish a correct annealing setting and since then the Analise Function of the AMP to provide a correct setting. With the many hundreds of cases that I have annealed many don't even show a heat mark anywhere or any further than just past the case shoulder. Of the ones that showed no annealing mark some were then sent to be tested and showed the annealing was correct, just no noticeable heat mark.

AMP have some views on annealing before or after case sizing and their points are valid as far as changing the case neck hardness but left open to what the user feels is the best method. Same as some comments on tumbling cases with steel pins as to how that method changes case neck hardness.

I don't know, so I'm open to comment but in my view the flame from a gas torch should be aimed at the neck probably just forward of the neck shoulder junction being that you are only trying to anneal the neck not any part of the cartridge case or shoulder as such.

It's an interesting topic and I'm not going to say what to do or not to do for anyone that wants to have a go at annealing cartridge cases by any method.
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by marksman » 14 May 2019, 4:17 pm

these cases are being formed from one cal without a shoulder to another with and as the photo was taken the case was removed
you do not see the red glow, only in the photo :thumbsup: the case is held for 3-4 seconds under the flame, they have 10 thou neck wall
the result is zero lost out of 300 cases and the projectile seats perfectly, very very accurate forming loads out to 250yds :drinks:
I get 20 or more reloads from each case before a few get loose primer pockets, a tight custom chamber as well :drinks:

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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Apollo » 14 May 2019, 4:23 pm

Okay... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That explains a bit more than the initial story intimates.. Sounds like you are enjoying it all.. :drinks:
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Re: How do you anneal your cases...?

Post by Oldbloke » 14 May 2019, 6:17 pm

"I don't know, so I'm open to comment but in my view the flame from a gas torch should be aimed at the neck probably just forward of the neck shoulder junction being that you are only trying to anneal the neck not any part of the cartridge case or shoulder as such."

I tried that and the necks were inclined to get cherry red. Aiming at the shoulder seemed a better option. I suspect the reason aiming at the shoulder worked better is simply that because the neck has little metal and heats pretty quickly. The rest of the case acts as a heat sink.

Edit; remember you only need to anneal the neck and shoulder.
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