How do you anneal your cases...?

[Stix]

How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated

Dunno mate...im not the expert...!!!
I have two hundred of 22-250 cases, and 100 204 cases all at 4x fired.
Some of the 22-250 cases are going through the split neck syndrome every time i fire them now so i think thats telling me something.
My thoughts are every 4 firings, but if i get/make a machine annealer, i can see me doing it every time i wet tumble...!!!

[Stix]

marksman pretty much nailed it for the budget approach and is correct in that brass doesn't need to be quenched in water. I invested in the Vertex Benchsource annealing machine, the one that looks like an old school record player. It'll hand anything from 17Hornet up to 50BMG with no further investment required unlike the AMP machine which costs almost double and needs case specific shell holders. I did notice they have updated the software where the machine can now self learn new cases, Aztec mode is what they are calling it. Depending on how much you have and how often you're thinking to anneal then possibly it's cheaper to outsource the job to some one local.

I also read your previous post (before i posted this thread) when you bought your machine Brett.

Im not trusting anyone with doing my annealing--plus the driving there & back & people letting you down thing--im just too old to be bothered with all that crap these days--thats why i joined on here mate...!!!
For example, I know a guy that has an AMP annealer only 15 mins from me & id happily offer him money/buy him a carton of beer to do do it/or let me do it (it doesnt take long at all really)...but he is also the bloke who finally got around to his promise to thread my case for the Hndy comparitor tool 9 months after id shot out the barrel on the said rifle...!!!
Good suggestion, but im sure you understand i feel im best to sort it myself.
(As soon as i get back to the farm or a range to form a few more cases i still intend to pm you for address to send cases to for threading--assuming the offer is still up..??.. ).

[Stix]

Stix,

I'm about to build my own blow-torch annealer; pretty sure I have assembled the gear I should need, and then some extra odds & ends to tweak the design.
It might be a month or so before I'm underway, but I should have an idea of what gear I've bought will work, and what is a waste of time.
The parts required have been a confusing mess to figure out, and it's been pretty frustrating at times.
[If you do go the path of making your own, let me know if you'd like a short length of nylon rod, to use for the drum that picks up a case from the hopper. I ended up buying a metre of heat-tolerant nylon rod 80mm diameter, and I'm pretty darn sure I wont ever use half of it. It's supposed to be tolerant of temps up to around 100 degrees.
See http://www.engineeringplasticsonline.co ... ory/30-rod for specs]

I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Rod.

YES, YES and YES Rod...!!!
That'd be great...(by the way i wasnt entirely joking...id almost be tempted to pay you to order the gear for me...!!..i really have no time or patience for ebay internet stuff.. )

Any lists, tips or bits id be happy to hear from you mate..!!! id also be happy to spot you some of your bits for being so kind as to save me that time...!

[Stix]

Never done it, still using cases that are around 30yrs old (222) the primer pockets seem to wear out (get loose) more than anything else I've noticed.

Only 30 years old eh...i need to anneal some original "Super" .222 Rimmed cases that are over a decade older than that mate...the old man gave them to me when i stole his rifle 10 pound...!!
The neck tension on them is all over the place & starting to split now so they need annealing...!!!

[Stix]

I use a turning method and a MAP gas torch the yellow one and then drop them into water. The turning method is much better than the standing them in water as it heats the case evenly. Yes cooling down can be done quickly or slowly apparently it doesn't matter with brass. I am having a play with a cheap ebay induction coil will see how that goes.

I'd appreciate if you shared your findings as they progress. I recently put an order down for my first centrefire and have been researching induction coils over the last few days. I saw some of the ebay coils and was thinking of combing with a power supply, pump, timer and solenoid based trap door. Once I've bought some reloading equipment of course.

Hey Sungazer...im sure there are lots of guys who'd be interested to see your outcome's...Hope you post them up here mate...

[Apollo]

marksman pretty much nailed it for the budget approach and is correct in that brass doesn't need to be quenched in water. I invested in the Vertex Benchsource annealing machine, the one that looks like an old school record player. It'll hand anything from 17Hornet up to 50BMG with no further investment required unlike the AMP machine which costs almost double and needs case specific shell holders. I did notice they have updated the software where the machine can now self learn new cases, Aztec mode is what they are calling it. Depending on how much you have and how often you're thinking to anneal then possibly it's cheaper to outsource the job to some one local.

Maybe that long term threat of a visit should happen....

You can check out the Aztec AMP sitting on the floor here.... BUT... 50 Cal is a different story at this stage. A Pilot if I don't have one is chicken feed for the cost of how QUICK n EASY an AMP can Anneal a case exactly every time.

I thought about a Gas Annealer for yonks, too much guess work and still too much risk to stuff cases easily.

How often to Anneal.... With an AMP, every Reload. It takes about 2 seconds to do each case.

Brett... I think you will be convinced when you see an AMP in operation.....

Opps... "Stix" is here so I had better keep quiet... His thoughts " Apollo has assumed the role of professor in chief assignment marker."

[Stix]

G'day Apollo...is that an all round invite or just for Brett...?
Maybe i should come for a visit with a boot load of brass... (& maybe a nice malt or 2 eh..!?!)

Yes the amp annealers are pretty schmick & very quick & easy to use...but i csn buy snother rifle & set of new brass for what it costs...!!!

[Apollo]

G'day Apollo...is that an all round invite or just for Brett...?
Maybe i should come for a visit with a boot load of brass... (& maybe a nice malt or 2 eh..!?!)

Yes the amp annealers are pretty schmick & very quick & easy to use...but i csn buy snother rifle & set of new brass for what it costs...!!!

The offer to Anneal Cases has been offered on a couple of Forums.... for FREE, but as long as I have the required Pilot. Pilots are only $27.50 from memory.

I am also quite happy to Anneal as many Cases as anyone likes if they want to post them to me and pay for return postage... perhaps the Pilot as above.

What is worth while...??? I don't know but it's no skin off my nose to Anneal a hundred or few cases. BUT.... you will sacrifice at least one case which will end up burnt to test the ideal Annealing Setting.

It's way better than playing with Gas and some temperature gunk and really a guess on temperature time in the flame.

Yep, expensive... Life is short and I'm having fun for the few months or so I have left.

[Stix]

Well if by pilots you are refering to shell holder i know you have whats needed for my cases..!!

I didn't think you would loose any cases from testing with that machine...
From memory the guy i know just measures the case thickness, & looks up a list on the net for that cartridge & brand of brass & programs in a number into the machine...
Then presto, a few minutes later there is 100 annealed cases cooling in a tray....!

[Oldbloke]

Yep, expensive... Life is short and I'm having fun for the few months or so I have left.

What the hell?

[Bills Shed]

I too am always looking for a better and faster way to do things in the reloading room....but that AMP job is way over the top for the average reloader. I am sure it works fine and results repeatable.
The small gas torch and a cordless drill works just fine and it too has excellent repeatable results. I spent maybe two hours in the shed and built a swing arm for the gas torch so that it could be swung away from the rotating case. It had welded in stops so the the heats comes back to the same spot every time. As stated earlier, you get into a process and timing is counted in your head. Once I have swung away the heat source I flick the case into a drum of water. Makes no difference to the anneal but it is easier to control the hot case from running around on the bench. The temp paint works but you find that after you paint ten or so and figure out the timing, you do not paint any more. The paint is more for checking that you are not over heating the rest of the case. The paint shows that It actually takes a lot of heat to get any sort of temp to the base of the case in the short time frame that the neck heats up. The mouth would be destroyed before the base heated up to a stage where it got soft. My hornet cases are so thin it takes less than three seconds. Darkened shed is the go to see the colour change. It has all be said before and it still works.
You can keep this as simple and cheap as you want and expensive as you want. Do not be scared to have a go. Once set up it takes about 5 seconds per case. My set up is not pretty but it does not need to be, it has to work.

Bill

[Stix]

Hey bill...any chance of posting pics of your annealing set-up...?
Im keen to see it...

[Bills Shed]

Swinging base

image.jpeg (1.64 MiB) Viewed 6607 times

Case in position

image.jpeg (1.33 MiB) Viewed 6607 times

As you can see it does not look pretty but it is as solid as. The trigger of the drill is just wired down so that it rotates approx 30 RPM or whatever you feel gets an even heat. The case holder is nothing more than a tec screw driver of the appropriate size. The drill is supported in its own cradle and so is steady and you do not touch the drill during the process once set up. Light the heating torch, put case onto spinning tech driver, swing heating torch into position, do your count, swing away heat and flick case into water.

Bill

[bigfellascott]

How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated

Dunno mate...im not the expert...!!!
I have two hundred of 22-250 cases, and 100 204 cases all at 4x fired.
Some of the 22-250 cases are going through the split neck syndrome every time i fire them now so i think thats telling me something.
My thoughts are every 4 firings, but if i get/make a machine annealer, i can see me doing it every time i wet tumble...!!!

Wow I've reloaded my 22.250 around double that and the same for the 204 and I reckon I've had only a couple of cases that have had split necks. the 204 is over max recommended loads and the 250 is only running around 3600fps if memory serves me correctly.

[bigrich]

How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated

Dunno mate...im not the expert...!!!
I have two hundred of 22-250 cases, and 100 204 cases all at 4x fired.
Some of the 22-250 cases are going through the split neck syndrome every time i fire them now so i think thats telling me something.
My thoughts are every 4 firings, but if i get/make a machine annealer, i can see me doing it every time i wet tumble...!!!

Wow I've reloaded my 22.250 around double that and the same for the 204 and I reckon I've had only a couple of cases that have had split necks. the 204 is over max recommended loads and the 250 is only running around 3600fps if memory serves me correctly.

thanks for the replies and info fellas. i think billshed battery drill set up is right up my alley as something i can fabricate myself. just out of curiosity billshed, is that a "k" hornet case in that hex head bit ?

[Stix]

Hey Bigrich...this is an annealing thread...no hornets to seen here mate..only good ideas, blue flames & glowing brass...

[bigrich]

you know you want one stix..........

[Bills Shed]

How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated

Dunno mate...im not the expert...!!!
I have two hundred of 22-250 cases, and 100 204 cases all at 4x fired.
Some of the 22-250 cases are going through the split neck syndrome every time i fire them now so i think thats telling me something.
My thoughts are every 4 firings, but if i get/make a machine annealer, i can see me doing it every time i wet tumble...!!!

Wow I've reloaded my 22.250 around double that and the same for the 204 and I reckon I've had only a couple of cases that have had split necks. the 204 is over max recommended loads and the 250 is only running around 3600fps if memory serves me correctly.

thanks for the replies and info fellas. i think billshed battery drill set up is right up my alley as something i can fabricate myself. just out of curiosity billshed, is that a "k" hornet case in that hex head bit ?

Yep KHornet, it has moved on since I took that pic but it was OK as a fun wildcat. Personally I do not think it was any better than a standard 22 hornet once you found a decent load. That brass was very thin and annealing for fire forming and just general crack prevention was a must. Winchester brass is just hard and a bit unforgiving. With good annealing I am now using some of that brass as a 17 hornet.

Bill

[bigrich]

thanks for the info bill, i am starting to reload on 6.5x55 se, but also own 22-250 and, 22 hornet. any other info on annealing with the hornet ? the brass is that thin you could do it with a cigarette lighter ?

[Stix]

How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated

Dunno mate...im not the expert...!!!
I have two hundred of 22-250 cases, and 100 204 cases all at 4x fired.
Some of the 22-250 cases are going through the split neck syndrome every time i fire them now so i think thats telling me something.
My thoughts are every 4 firings, but if i get/make a machine annealer, i can see me doing it every time i wet tumble...!!!

Wow I've reloaded my 22.250 around double that and the same for the 204 and I reckon I've had only a couple of cases that have had split necks. the 204 is over max recommended loads and the 250 is only running around 3600fps if memory serves me correctly.

Yes mate ive probably given the wrong impression...
I suspect the 22-250 cases im speaking of are either a dodgy batch or more to the point i got ripped a new one by the guy i bought them from, believing they were once fired. He did state they were, & that they were all FL sized, but his sizing is all over the place & many are tight to chamber & measure very long blown out shoulders which is clearly indicative of having not been sized, or not being sized properly...either way i was loosing 1-3 cases/50 with split necks every firing so id like to see if annealing them lowers the fatality rate.

The 204 cases i have are probably fine, but ive had a few unexplained & very abnormal big misses with it last time out, so id like to anneal the cases to make myself more sure its not bad neck tension..

I suspect the out of the ordinary misses to be the new & possibly dodgy batch of proj's im on...amongst 3 very out of the ordinary complete misses on foxes within 220 yds, one of them was a front on shot on a fox sitting at 200 yds into an approx 5mph wind from 1pm off the heavy bag over the bonnet-basically a given bang flop & an almost unmissable shot really-taking my time for the shot i had the cross hairs weighted to the right of centre of its chest & squeezed off what honestly was a nice shot...i can only describe the sound that followed as a combo of the sound effect used in war movies for a mortar travelling through the air combined with one of those whistling/screaming fire crackers...
My guess is the jacket had partially ripped off the bullet in the barrel--it really was an incredible & eery sound to hear at night by myself..that shot also completely missed the fox...
I need to put a few on paper to see how they print as i haven't done that with this batch, but id just like to anneal the cases anyway

[Bills Shed]

Yep bloody thin, I actually did try a cig lighter!....not quite. As to annealing the hornet, it is quick. Darkened room, keep an eye on the colour of the neck, the dullest of red is more than enough. Depending on how you set up your heat source, about three seconds would be about it so do not hang about. Bigger cases, longer time. You may lose a case or two in the set up but you learn real quick.

Bill

Annealed KHornet cases

image.jpeg (1.22 MiB) Viewed 6679 times

[bigrich]

thanks bill. might look into getting some sort of small hobby gas torch specially for the hornet .how often would you advise annealing standard hornet cases ? cheers mate

[bigrich]

geez stix , ya shootin' at poor foxes with a horizontal rifled mortar now ? no helpin' you mate , you'll be useing a flamethrower on wabbit warrens next ! if you throw ya cases in the hole first you can do your annealing at the same time !

[Bills Shed]

thanks bill. might look into getting some sort of small hobby gas torch specially for the hornet .how often would you advise annealing standard hornet cases ? cheers mate

That is a bit of, how long is a bit of string, but for a mild load and to be a bit preventative in regards to cracked necks, I anneal the hornet every three firings.

Bill

[bigrich]

i appreciate the info bill, as working all this out through my own experimentation would take up a bit of stuffing around on my part. have a beer for me bill . cheers

[Stix]

... ... how long is a bit of string.... ...

Bill

Just for interests sake, the answer i give straight back to anyone that asks me this question is..."equidistant from the centre"...you have to try it some time...the reaction is often priceless...!!

[bigrich]

them's big words for this time of night stix

[Stix]

geez stix , ya shootin' at poor foxes with a horizontal rifled mortar now ? no helpin' you mate , you'll be useing a flamethrower on wabbit warrens next ! if you throw ya cases in the hole first you can do your annealing at the same time !

Ya know rich, really...that is a silly thing to say...& i dont know if its funny because you're drinking, or if its funny cos im drinking..but for some reason it is funny

[bigrich]

geez stix , ya shootin' at poor foxes with a horizontal rifled mortar now ? no helpin' you mate , you'll be useing a flamethrower on wabbit warrens next ! if you throw ya cases in the hole first you can do your annealing at the same time !

Ya know rich, really...that is a silly thing to say...& i dont know if its funny because you're drinking, or if its funny cos im drinking..but for some reason it is funny

[Bills Shed]

Funny and maybe even logical but still with no answer. I just cut a piece of string and give it to them and say....that long!
Talk about getting off topic again
Bill