How do you anneal your cases...?

[bigrich]

thanks for the info bill, i am starting to reload on 6.5x55 se, but also own 22-250 and, 22 hornet. any other info on annealing with the hornet ? the brass is that thin you could do it with a cigarette lighter ?

[Stix]

How often should you aneal your case necks anyway? Is this a caliber specific thing ? Just starting to get into reloading so any advice would be appreciated

Dunno mate...im not the expert...!!!
I have two hundred of 22-250 cases, and 100 204 cases all at 4x fired.
Some of the 22-250 cases are going through the split neck syndrome every time i fire them now so i think thats telling me something.
My thoughts are every 4 firings, but if i get/make a machine annealer, i can see me doing it every time i wet tumble...!!!

Wow I've reloaded my 22.250 around double that and the same for the 204 and I reckon I've had only a couple of cases that have had split necks. the 204 is over max recommended loads and the 250 is only running around 3600fps if memory serves me correctly.

Yes mate ive probably given the wrong impression...
I suspect the 22-250 cases im speaking of are either a dodgy batch or more to the point i got ripped a new one by the guy i bought them from, believing they were once fired. He did state they were, & that they were all FL sized, but his sizing is all over the place & many are tight to chamber & measure very long blown out shoulders which is clearly indicative of having not been sized, or not being sized properly...either way i was loosing 1-3 cases/50 with split necks every firing so id like to see if annealing them lowers the fatality rate.

The 204 cases i have are probably fine, but ive had a few unexplained & very abnormal big misses with it last time out, so id like to anneal the cases to make myself more sure its not bad neck tension..

I suspect the out of the ordinary misses to be the new & possibly dodgy batch of proj's im on...amongst 3 very out of the ordinary complete misses on foxes within 220 yds, one of them was a front on shot on a fox sitting at 200 yds into an approx 5mph wind from 1pm off the heavy bag over the bonnet-basically a given bang flop & an almost unmissable shot really-taking my time for the shot i had the cross hairs weighted to the right of centre of its chest & squeezed off what honestly was a nice shot...i can only describe the sound that followed as a combo of the sound effect used in war movies for a mortar travelling through the air combined with one of those whistling/screaming fire crackers...
My guess is the jacket had partially ripped off the bullet in the barrel--it really was an incredible & eery sound to hear at night by myself..that shot also completely missed the fox...
I need to put a few on paper to see how they print as i haven't done that with this batch, but id just like to anneal the cases anyway

[Bills Shed]

Yep bloody thin, I actually did try a cig lighter!....not quite. As to annealing the hornet, it is quick. Darkened room, keep an eye on the colour of the neck, the dullest of red is more than enough. Depending on how you set up your heat source, about three seconds would be about it so do not hang about. Bigger cases, longer time. You may lose a case or two in the set up but you learn real quick.

Bill

Annealed KHornet cases

image.jpeg (1.22 MiB) Viewed 6685 times

[bigrich]

thanks bill. might look into getting some sort of small hobby gas torch specially for the hornet .how often would you advise annealing standard hornet cases ? cheers mate

[bigrich]

geez stix , ya shootin' at poor foxes with a horizontal rifled mortar now ? no helpin' you mate , you'll be useing a flamethrower on wabbit warrens next ! if you throw ya cases in the hole first you can do your annealing at the same time !

[Bills Shed]

thanks bill. might look into getting some sort of small hobby gas torch specially for the hornet .how often would you advise annealing standard hornet cases ? cheers mate

That is a bit of, how long is a bit of string, but for a mild load and to be a bit preventative in regards to cracked necks, I anneal the hornet every three firings.

Bill

[bigrich]

i appreciate the info bill, as working all this out through my own experimentation would take up a bit of stuffing around on my part. have a beer for me bill . cheers

[Stix]

... ... how long is a bit of string.... ...

Bill

Just for interests sake, the answer i give straight back to anyone that asks me this question is..."equidistant from the centre"...you have to try it some time...the reaction is often priceless...!!

[bigrich]

them's big words for this time of night stix

[Stix]

geez stix , ya shootin' at poor foxes with a horizontal rifled mortar now ? no helpin' you mate , you'll be useing a flamethrower on wabbit warrens next ! if you throw ya cases in the hole first you can do your annealing at the same time !

Ya know rich, really...that is a silly thing to say...& i dont know if its funny because you're drinking, or if its funny cos im drinking..but for some reason it is funny

[bigrich]

geez stix , ya shootin' at poor foxes with a horizontal rifled mortar now ? no helpin' you mate , you'll be useing a flamethrower on wabbit warrens next ! if you throw ya cases in the hole first you can do your annealing at the same time !

Ya know rich, really...that is a silly thing to say...& i dont know if its funny because you're drinking, or if its funny cos im drinking..but for some reason it is funny

[Bills Shed]

Funny and maybe even logical but still with no answer. I just cut a piece of string and give it to them and say....that long!
Talk about getting off topic again
Bill

[Apollo]

Well if by pilots you are refering to shell holder i know you have whats needed for my cases..!!

I didn't think you would loose any cases from testing with that machine...
From memory the guy i know just measures the case thickness, & looks up a list on the net for that cartridge & brand of brass & programs in a number into the machine...
Then presto, a few minutes later there is 100 annealed cases cooling in a tray....!

The AMP Pilot is the bit that screws into the top of the AMP Annealer. The Shell Holder that is the same as used in a Reloading Press but in it's own Grip Holder so you can insert and remove a case to anneal it.

The AMP in Analise Mode to get the correct setting for annealing will test one case to virtual destruction, melting point. It's useless afterwards as it's been very over heated.

Measuring case thickness, neck thickness is just a guess as even from the same manufacturer the composition of the brass varies from batch to batch so does the required annealing setting. A starting point only but much better if one case is tested from a whole batch the same.

Another point is that some cases when annealed correctly will NOT show any annealing marks. It all depends on the state of the outside surface of the brass case. Some polished cases will not show anything, where as some tarnished cases will show a very drastic looking annealing mark.

As mentioned, the AMP is not cheap by any means. It is probably intended for precision/competition shooters that want to have the same neck tension for every round, every time and hence another over the top method gone to produce the best most repeatable results possible.

Since I have all the gear, I treat my hunting/varminting/target rounds all the same even down to weight sorting everything and weighing powder loads down to one granule of powder. It really does pay off with consistent accuracy and one shot kills. Keeps me away from that silly TV at night and end up with something very useful for me.

I do not have a #07 Pilot required for a 22-250 but I do have a #19 for the 204 Ruger as I do have that calibre being a Sako 85 that shoots 1/4 MOA or better using Nosler Custom Competition Cases.

[sungazer]

I really really wish I had an AMP I would do my brass every time I shoot the 308 competitively and am doing pretty well but I know if I had a better neck tension then my SD would come down and help just that little bit at the longs. If you need someone to leave it to in your will, I will put it to good use. In fact I would probably put it at the clubhouse so everyone could do their brass each week.

[bigrich]

wow apollo, just looked it up. that AMP machine is a great bit of gear. more than i can afford however. i reckon SG you might be onto something involving clubs but. if a club pooled resources and bought one for it's members to use.... maybe SSAA could send me one for x-mas ?

[pomemax]

Have a look at this he has a a video of how it is set up and works . for under 300 $ I think they would be USA $
http://www.annealeez.com/

[bigrich]

looks like a "out of the box thinking" approach pomemax . different syle with the horizontal rollers, but it automatically "ejects" the treated case. wonder if some enterprising aussie could start making them ?

[pomemax]

looks like a "out of the box thinking" approach pomemax . different syle with the horizontal rollers, but it automatically "ejects" the treated case. wonder if some enterprising aussie could start making them ?

why would you he ships to here

[Apollo]

Look up "Skip Annealer" he is a nice bloke... Moved from WA to Mexico (Victoria)...

[bigrich]

looks like a "out of the box thinking" approach pomemax . different syle with the horizontal rollers, but it automatically "ejects" the treated case. wonder if some enterprising aussie could start making them ?

why would you he ships to here

yeh i guess if he ships to here, depends on the cost too but. i just think it would be nice to buy and support local product.

[pomemax]

Look up "Skip Annealer" he is a nice bloke... Moved from WA to Mexico (Victoria)...

skipps Black bettly aint seen that in a few years

[nightforcenxs]

just bought the AMP machine today and must say it was alot of money but damn its worth it super easy to use will share some updates how it helps with groups and brass life

[Stix]

Stix,

I'm about to build my own blow-torch annealer; pretty sure I have assembled the gear I should need, and then some extra odds & ends to tweak the design.
It might be a month or so before I'm underway, but I should have an idea of what gear I've bought will work, and what is a waste of time.
The parts required have been a confusing mess to figure out, and it's been pretty frustrating at times.
[If you do go the path of making your own, let me know if you'd like a short length of nylon rod, to use for the drum that picks up a case from the hopper. I ended up buying a metre of heat-tolerant nylon rod 80mm diameter, and I'm pretty darn sure I wont ever use half of it. It's supposed to be tolerant of temps up to around 100 degrees.
See http://www.engineeringplasticsonline.co ... ory/30-rod for specs]

I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Rod.

Hey Rod, how'd you go with this...?

[Stix]

So...im using a yellow trade flame blow torch to try this annealing caper...& im having trouble seeing any colour changes in the brass as its heating...this is due to the flame really.

Ive tried in dim light , no light or normally lit room...no luck seeing any colour changes in the brass itself.

Is there any way of telling by the flame itself...?

Any tips would be great.
Cheers

[No1_49er]

Any tips. Yes, lots.
Start by reading the Ken Light article that has been posted (link) in this thread. You might come to the realisation that colour change is not what it's cracked up to be. What you really need is the appropriate Templaq temperature indicator, which the article alludes to.
Then, you might be in the park when it comes to making a start.
If you can't be bothered with any of that, buy an AMP.

[Gaznazdiak]

So...im using a yellow trade flame blow torch to try this annealing caper...& im having trouble seeing any colour changes in the brass as its heating...this is due to the flame really.

Ive tried in dim light , no light or normally lit room...no luck seeing any colour changes in the brass itself.

Is there any way of telling by the flame itself...?

Any tips would be great.
Cheers

G'day Stix,
I tried this guy's method, seems to have done the trick.
I just use one of the blue Skinny gas torches from Bunnings.

https://youtu.be/6TuAzQ0208g

[Stix]

So guys...is it the general consensus to use the 700 degree temp indicator...? (not 650 or 750...?)

Also, has any used the crayons/tempil stick...?, and if so is there an advantage to the paint at all...?
(i imagine putting the paint on the inside of the neck may give a better indication the the entire section of brass is at temp rather than just the surface...?)

Also Sungazer, can i ask what sort of results you got with your induction coil you were experimenting with that you mentioned...?

[marksman]

So...im using a yellow trade flame blow torch to try this annealing caper...& im having trouble seeing any colour changes in the brass as its heating...this is due to the flame really.

Ive tried in dim light , no light or normally lit room...no luck seeing any colour changes in the brass itself.

Is there any way of telling by the flame itself...?

Any tips would be great.
Cheers

Stix I use the blue torch, its not as hot as the yellow, but you should be able to use any heat source its just the mucking about to get it right
I find that I can see way better when its night under fluro lighting with a white background
but usually I just do it when I have to regardless of the time of day, its not rocket science, do it for a while and you will become comfortable doing it
if you are not sure of the colour change as you are doing it do a count and look off the flame if you don't have the blue tinge do some more
I use a cordless drill on low speed with a socket to put the case in
get the rhythm happening and get a count of how long to have the neck under the flame
some drop there cases in water after, I don't as I believe quenching is for hardening not annealing
you can really make this job as basic or as difficult as you want to
just practice with some old brass that you don't care if you ruin it
understand as well that when you anneal you dry out the inside of the neck changing the way the bullet grips
I polish the inside of my case necks but others lube the neck before seating the bullet, some don't worry at all
up to you mate
understand I mainly anneal to fireform wild cat cases, in one of Brian Litz's books, in a section under neck tension he did some testing where he annealed one set of brass every time, one set every fifth reloading time and one set never, if I remember correctly he did not find any measurable difference in accuracy, he was not testing the brass for longevity
like Daddybang say's "everyone make a curry different"

[sungazer]

Stix I found the Templix crayons to be next to useless. At least the way i was using them. for a start they are not like a crayon in fact they dont really draw on brass at all they have a crumbly texture so if you are turning the brass like you should it falls off. I have been using the yellow bottles slightly hotter than the blue and even trying 700 and 750 it turned black under the flame very quickly. I the 223 cases go very quickly and even on a 308 case I just let it turn pink to just orange at the most.
Havent pursued the induction for a while spent money and time on other projects.

[bigfellascott]

Never done it, still using cases that are around 30yrs old (222) the primer pockets seem to wear out (get loose) more than anything else I've noticed.

Only 30 years old eh...i need to anneal some original "Super" .222 Rimmed cases that are over a decade older than that mate...the old man gave them to me when i stole his rifle 10 pound...!!
The neck tension on them is all over the place & starting to split now so they need annealing...!!!

I think I have 10 boxes of them brand new sitting in my ammo cabinet. Might get around to useing them one day maybe?

I don't bench rest shoot so dropping em all in one hole group isn't that important to me, so long as it snots whatever I'm shooting in the field first shot is good enough for me.