SCJ429 wrote:Reloading is a must be rare or wildcat cases, owners of a 378, 416 or 460 Weatherby Magnum are faced with paying over $300 for a box of loaded ammo if they can find it. At $16 every time you pull the trigger you can bring that down to around $3 not counting the (expensive ) brass.
SCJ429 wrote:Reloading is a must be rare or wildcat cases, owners of a 378, 416 or 460 Weatherby Magnum are faced with paying over $300 for a box of loaded ammo if they can find it. At $16 every time you pull the trigger you can bring that down to around $3 not counting the (expensive ) brass.
bladeracer wrote:Unless you are shooting professionally, why would you put a price on your time?
Do you charge yourself by the hour to go and kick a ball in the park, or spend a few hours on a beach?
If you are shooting for pleasure, the shooting _is_ the value. Reloading your own ammo just adds to the time you spend shooting.
If you've ever built your own engine you would know the pleasure that comes every time you fire it up, even years later, I find reloading to give that same sort of pleasure. Being a part of the machine rather than simply an end user.
Gwion wrote:It's not a hobby for me... I would rather watch grass grow or blow dry paint... but it does give me good ammo and save me at least %50 on ammo costs. Finding a reliable supply of good ammo locally is tedious and near impossible as well as being expensive, both for the ammo and fuel to go to the shop.
I bought 20 rounds for my 7-08rem when I first got it... 60 something bucks! I estimate that bullet, powder and primer has me at about $1.25, then allow 25c for brass ($170 for 100 then allow 7 loadings: now on load#5 and all looks good). That's $150 for 100 rounds. Same 100 rounds (actually worse because I just have to buy what they have at the time) would cost me a minimum of $300 in the shop. It takes me between 1-2 hours to load 100 rounds (because I'm anal about charge weight). Even if I charge myself $30/hr for 2hr (which I don't), I'm still $90 better off.
So. In the 500 rounds I've put through my 7mm08rem, I estimate that I have saved approximately $700.
I haven't amortised the reloading gear against that because that was paid off by the roughly 2500 rounds I have loaded for my 223rem. Again, roughly 1/2 price or even less. Before reloading I was paying about $1 per round of 223 plus fuel to shop, etc... So my $600-700 worth of reloading gear saved me about $1200. Minus the cost of gear is $500, plus the $700 from 7-08 savings is $1200...
Think I just convinced my wife I can afford that new GRS stock for the 7-08!
I wish....
Flyer wrote:I do build engines, and I very much enjoy rocking up to the drags in my 11-second Charger and saying "I built that".
But I don't fool myself that it cost nothing in time and that it was pure pleasure. Never mind the fact that learning how to build that engine in the first place took time and money . . .
I didn't take time off work to build that engine. Would you take time off work to reload?
So it all comes down to how much you value your free time.
In the above example, if I was a lawyer earning $300 an hour and had no idea how to build engines, then I'm better off earning $300 an hour and paying someone $50 an hour to build something for me.
In terms of reloading, you're competing with a machine that reloads thousands of rounds an hour or whatever at fractions of a cent per round (energy and tooling cost).
If you're going to spend hours of your time cleaning, weighing and trimming cases, deburring flash holes and uniforming primer pockets, depriming, sizing, neck turning, weighing charges, loading, seating and checking OAL and concentricity, then you're fooling yourself by saying you're "Saving money".
You're not - it's a false economy.
Arguing that it's time well spent because you enjoy it or that it's part of your hobby does not address the fact that you really haven't saved anything in fiscal terms, because if you spent that time earning money and buying factory ammo, you'd be way ahead.
I reload because yes, I do (in some masochistic way) enjoy the process, and because I get pleasure and reward from loading consistent and accurate ammo that's reflected in my scores at the target range.
But I certainly don't reload to save money. And I always have to balance time spent reloading against what other pleasurable activities I could be doing in that same time.
It's your time - spend it how you will.
sungazer wrote:You blokes can reload pretty quickly. 100 an hour is getting along. I rekon I am at about 50-70 in 2 hours. Thats not including the prep time.
Flyer wrote:sungazer wrote:You blokes can reload pretty quickly. 100 an hour is getting along. I rekon I am at about 50-70 in 2 hours. Thats not including the prep time.
I've got a Chargemaster Lite that throws as I load and seat. It's a great bit of kit. Two nights ago, I loaded 120 rounds of .223 in a bit over two hours with only one overcharge and one undercharge that had to be re-thrown. It's pretty consistent. I've got a mate who uses a manual powder-thrower and he's pretty quick once he gets into his rhythm, but I'm so anal I couldn't do it because I'd have to weigh every charge!
Flyer wrote:Gwion wrote:It's not a hobby for me... I would rather watch grass grow or blow dry paint... but it does give me good ammo and save me at least %50 on ammo costs. Finding a reliable supply of good ammo locally is tedious and near impossible as well as being expensive, both for the ammo and fuel to go to the shop.
I bought 20 rounds for my 7-08rem when I first got it... 60 something bucks! I estimate that bullet, powder and primer has me at about $1.25, then allow 25c for brass ($170 for 100 then allow 7 loadings: now on load#5 and all looks good). That's $150 for 100 rounds. Same 100 rounds (actually worse because I just have to buy what they have at the time) would cost me a minimum of $300 in the shop. It takes me between 1-2 hours to load 100 rounds (because I'm anal about charge weight). Even if I charge myself $30/hr for 2hr (which I don't), I'm still $90 better off.
So. In the 500 rounds I've put through my 7mm08rem, I estimate that I have saved approximately $700.
I haven't amortised the reloading gear against that because that was paid off by the roughly 2500 rounds I have loaded for my 223rem. Again, roughly 1/2 price or even less. Before reloading I was paying about $1 per round of 223 plus fuel to shop, etc... So my $600-700 worth of reloading gear saved me about $1200. Minus the cost of gear is $500, plus the $700 from 7-08 savings is $1200...
Think I just convinced my wife I can afford that new GRS stock for the 7-08!
I wish....
I don't want to argue the maths, but don't you also spend time and money on fuel when you buy powder and primers? Other things you can get in the post (and pay for it). And yeah, it probably takes me 1-2 hours to load 100 rounds of ammo, too. But that doesn't include all the preparation to get to that point. At the very least you have to deprime, clean, dry, resize and trim before you start weighing charges, loading and seating.
I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing - I'm just being completely honest about how much time and effort it takes. Something that not everyone - myself included - takes into account when they first start reloading.
Gwion wrote:Yes but as you say above, you are not taking time off work to reload and unless you are a complete nong or have a very cushy job, you are not reloading when you would otherwise be earning.
Free time IS more and more valuable as our lives get busier but do you charge your family restaurant prices when you cook them a meal? Do you have a taxi meter in your car for all the time you spend running around on personal or family business?
In real terms it does save money because you are not shelling out and you are only counting hypothetical earnings.
Yes, if you are really time poor you wouldn't reload but in that case you probably wouldn't put much time into hobbies and probably be happy shooting 1" groups at the range once a month or a couple of times a year. Mind you, you might spend a LOT of time and money trialing ammo to find a round that your rifle likes.
Totally agree you need to factor in the time but not so much that the time has a fiscal value unless it impacts your earning time.
As for case prep, etc, i do that while watching a movie, which i like to do in down time anyway. The only time i find inconvenient is the actual loading because it's tedious, repetitive and mind numbingly boring. I can think of quite a few things I'd rather do for 'contemplation' than reloading. Like fishing, making a knife or just staring out at the back 40.
JimTom wrote:Flyer wrote:sungazer wrote:You blokes can reload pretty quickly. 100 an hour is getting along. I rekon I am at about 50-70 in 2 hours. Thats not including the prep time.
I've got a Chargemaster Lite that throws as I load and seat. It's a great bit of kit. Two nights ago, I loaded 120 rounds of .223 in a bit over two hours with only one overcharge and one undercharge that had to be re-thrown. It's pretty consistent. I've got a mate who uses a manual powder-thrower and he's pretty quick once he gets into his rhythm, but I'm so anal I couldn't do it because I'd have to weigh every charge!
I know what you mean mate. I am the same, I weigh every charge which is why I have just recently invested in a RCBS charge master lite.
Hopefully that will speed it up a little.
Gwion wrote:Yes but as you say above, you are not taking time off work to reload and unless you are a complete nong or have a very cushy job, you are not reloading when you would otherwise be earning.
Free time IS more and more valuable as our lives get busier but do you charge your family restaurant prices when you cook them a meal? Do you have a taxi meter in your car for all the time you spend running around on personal or family business?
In real terms it does save money because you are not shelling out and you are only counting hypothetical earnings.
Yes, if you are really time poor you wouldn't reload but in that case you probably wouldn't put much time into hobbies and probably be happy shooting 1" groups at the range once a month or a couple of times a year. Mind you, you might spend a LOT of time and money trialing ammo to find a round that your rifle likes.
Totally agree you need to factor in the time but not so much that the time has a fiscal value unless it impacts your earning time.
As for case prep, etc, i do that while watching a movie, which i like to do in down time anyway. The only time i find inconvenient is the actual loading because it's tedious, repetitive and mind numbingly boring. I can think of quite a few things I'd rather do for 'contemplation' than reloading.
Ziad wrote:Question does the hornady trickle actually work... it's the red vessel with a tube sticking out
Stix wrote:Im with Sungazer...you guys are really cranking it...!!
Id be down at the 50 rnds end of the scale in 2 hours, not including prep...thats using a not so accurate thrower, onto the scales & trickle.
The only time i ever used a RCBS Chargemaster (someone elses), it either over or under threw more than 50% of the charges--I had 70 odd rounds at the end & it had thrown over 130 charges--that experience really did nothing for calming down the OCD nerves & giving up controll to trust in a machine...
I realise this is out of the ordinary, or people wouldnt buy them...
juststarting wrote:If you exclude brass, it's definitely doable. At Melbourne prices, doubt it's doable in Tasmania.
Ziad wrote:Well I just did the sums again..ppu shoot reasonably. And a packet in my lgs is 28... if you buying a few hundred and regularly maybe you could bring it down to 25 in a few areas. Sell the brass for 5bucks.... gives you dollar a round... also seen sometimes big boxes for even cheaper than a dollar a round
Southpaw wrote:It’s definitely doable in Tas, especially when the local shop has nothing on the shelves!
Not sure if the rest of the country was as bad as it was down here, but during the ammo drought we struggled to get regular supplies of all the 2s (22, 22-250, 222, 223, 243 etc). Was definitely glad I had the basic reloading gear stashed away, along with primers, powder and projectiles...
Hang on, is this the prepping forum?
Flyer wrote:Gwion wrote:Yes but as you say above, you are not taking time off work to reload and unless you are a complete nong or have a very cushy job, you are not reloading when you would otherwise be earning.
Free time IS more and more valuable as our lives get busier but do you charge your family restaurant prices when you cook them a meal? Do you have a taxi meter in your car for all the time you spend running around on personal or family business?
In real terms it does save money because you are not shelling out and you are only counting hypothetical earnings.
Yes, if you are really time poor you wouldn't reload but in that case you probably wouldn't put much time into hobbies and probably be happy shooting 1" groups at the range once a month or a couple of times a year. Mind you, you might spend a LOT of time and money trialing ammo to find a round that your rifle likes.
Totally agree you need to factor in the time but not so much that the time has a fiscal value unless it impacts your earning time.
As for case prep, etc, i do that while watching a movie, which i like to do in down time anyway. The only time i find inconvenient is the actual loading because it's tedious, repetitive and mind numbingly boring. I can think of quite a few things I'd rather do for 'contemplation' than reloading.
The only point I'm making is that if you are reloading purely to "save money", then it's a false economy.
Obviously that goes for anything we do, but the difference is we don't usually choose our hobbies or past-times to save money. It's like making your own beer or bread - you're probably not saving as much money as you think, but ultimately the pleasure is in the process of making something enjoyable that you can't necessarily buy off the shelf.
In that respect, I agree. After all, I reload myself!
bladeracer wrote:Southpaw wrote:It’s definitely doable in Tas, especially when the local shop has nothing on the shelves!
Not sure if the rest of the country was as bad as it was down here, but during the ammo drought we struggled to get regular supplies of all the 2s (22, 22-250, 222, 223, 243 etc). Was definitely glad I had the basic reloading gear stashed away, along with primers, powder and projectiles...
Hang on, is this the prepping forum?
How do you guys get powders now? I read that nobody can currently courier it across the gap from the mainland? I assume that reps and licenced firearm owners can still transport as much powder as they want though, so I guess reps just take large loads across on the ferry? Have powder prices risen?
Ziad wrote:Any how, my new projectile in 308 will cost me 0.36 cents. It's supposed to be pretty good. For me to practice my 308 round will cost me 72 cents. Plus time. Damn my next trip to little river will cost me nearly 200 bucks, makes me think my car hobby was cheaper (well track day was 180 entry)
Compared to my cz that is very happy shooting eley standard works out about 15cents a round...