Scope planes

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Scope planes

Post by Zappa » 06 Nov 2018, 2:53 pm

first and second focal planes.

Should I be concerned about them on a rimfire .22 LR like a CZ 455 for target \ range shooting ?

I'm in the market for a scope and while the first plane scopes look really practical for range finding, I cant justify the increased cost over a secondary scope.

Also can anyone recommend a good scope for a CZ 455 ( three barrels change) which I could also take off and use on a HOWA 1500 .223 rem ? Ive attached a pic from clever re the bushnell as considering purchasing this for the CZ. Hopefully i can also use for the HOWA. Any good ?

Again , all at the range , No hunting.



:thumbsup:

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Re: Scope planes

Post by sungazer » 06 Nov 2018, 4:37 pm

If you really want to shoot smallbore 22LR competitively you would be looking at a Nightforce 8*32 or 12*42 BR or one of the other scopes in the 32-60 magnification range. In the second focal plane. Not that it would really matter as a FFP when on max mag is very similar to a SFP.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by Ziad » 06 Nov 2018, 5:53 pm

I have a sfp and FFP scope. I liked my Ffp until I am trying to aim at something small at max resolution the crosshairs are huge and can cover a small target easily.

Then I looked at my Leopold which is a sfp and i think I am quite happy with it.

So I don't have an answer for you. But suggest get 24x spee if you planning on doing any target or range work, unless you going f class etc then atleast 32x or above.

I just picked up a sightron s3 10-60x for a really good price, can't wait to try it on the range.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by Apollo » 06 Nov 2018, 6:13 pm

Zappa, the Bushnell you have pictured might be okay for hunting. But, it certainly isn't a Scope designed for target use.

As mentioned above, a FFP Scope is far from ideal for target use. I disagree with "sungazer" in that any FFP Scope I have used the Reticle grows way bigger than any SFF Scope to the extent as also mentioned it blots out your aiming point. I would never consider using a FFP Scope for target use and of the dozens of competition shooters I know of not one uses a FFP Scope for target.

The best idea is go to your local range, especially if they are having some sort of target competition and look at what scopes are being used. If possible ask to have a look through some and also if possible when there is a target set up. Depends on restrictions of the range what you might be allowed to do.

You might get a laugh out of this but I'm pretty serious... The scope I have on my 1965 Brno Model 2 22LR for Target use is a March 36-55x52mm EP Zoom worth a couple of thousand or so dollars. I use that to shoot 50 and 100 Metres plus 200 Yard competition.

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Re: Scope planes

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Nov 2018, 7:56 pm

A lot of rimfire competitors use fixed power scopes. 36x fixed power may do the job for you and no disadvantage for retical position. They may cost a little more than $169. If it wasn't for Tactical shooting you would be hard pressed to find a FFP scope used in competition.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by Zappa » 06 Nov 2018, 8:20 pm

thanks for the replies all. Shows i know very little about scopes. However spending more than the firearm is worth on scope , to hit 200mtr targets is not justified in my opinion. I have a budget of $250 and will get the most powerful i can i suppose. I like Apollos suggestion to ask others what they're using. Bonus If i can get to view through some.

I take it fixed power scopes cannot be zoomed in \ out.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by Ziad » 06 Nov 2018, 8:32 pm

You can get a bushnell 6x24x50 fit like 329 or 369 with a 30mm tube. A lot of ppl quite liked it. Maybe in your budget. Otherwise look at nikko Stirling 4x14x50 LRP it comes as a package deal with some howa guns. And i found it really clear as well. Not good for 308 or 6.5... but 22lr or 223 should be pretty good

By that I mean not really good for over 2-300m
Last edited by Ziad on 06 Nov 2018, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by marksman » 06 Nov 2018, 9:09 pm

have a look at the nikko target master scopes
great for entry level comp and crystal clear optics
magnumsports.com.au/255/278/nikko-stirling/nikko-stirling-targetmaster/nikko-stirling-target-master-1-4-16x44.html
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Re: Scope planes

Post by bladeracer » 06 Nov 2018, 10:56 pm

You don't want FFP.
The Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x40 I'm using is a fine reticle out to at least 400m on my .22's. The reticle is only 0.25MoA - 7.25mm wide at 100m, 29mm at 400m. It's fine enough that you can put it on the centre of a 400m 50mm target dot and still see the dot in the quadrents. At 100m I aim at a corner of the piece of 19mm insulation tape I use as a target diamond.

Shooting paper, 18-power lets me see bullet holes at about 150m, although I can just make out 5rd groups at 180m. Shooting unpainted steel I can see the bullet splashes to 270m or so.
Having a military-style reticle is very helpful at longer ranges. It allows you to measure the difference in point of aim and point of impact in MoA off the reticle so you can translate it directly to the turrets. You don't need to know the range or guess how many millimeters you are missing by, if your bullets are falling 1.5MoA to the right of your point of aim, just dial in 1.5MoA windage to the left

I have a 10-40 1/8-MoA scope as well, which I'm missing now as I play with long-range .22LR shooting, but my brother has it on his Anschutz currently.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by eddahenry » 06 Nov 2018, 11:08 pm

Im my books Spend as much on the glass as you do the gun is pretty much it'
You woulnt put 4000 dollars woth of Yokohama on a 200 dollar sigma
Just like you wouldn't put the $49 bob Jane specials on a supercar
the Weaver T 36 is pretty much the entry level to 22lr benchrest and it gos up from there
FFP is not required for the distances you will be shooting , just get Something like a Bushnell Engage
I use the 2.5 to 10 X 44 engauge , but it is a 465 dollar scope
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Re: Scope planes

Post by Zappa » 07 Nov 2018, 7:05 am

Is it generally true to say that scopes can be used on either rimfire and centrefire rifles ?
I've noticed scopes marketed specific to rimfire . What's the deal there?

@bladeracer :the Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x40 you use, can I also throw it on a howa 1500 .223 without any dramas provided I can use the same rings ? Would I need a mounting rail on the two rifles to make moving backwards and forward easier ?

Total noob if you haven't worked it out yet.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by bladeracer » 07 Nov 2018, 7:11 am

Zappa wrote:Is it generally true to say that scopes can be used on either rimfire and centrefire rifles ?
I've noticed scopes marketed specific to rimfire . What's the deal there?

@bladeracer :the Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x40 you use, can I also throw it on a howa 1500 .223 without any dramas provided I can use the same rings ? Would I need a mounting rail on the two rifles to make moving backwards and forward easier ?

Total noob if you haven't worked it out yet.


No reason you can't use them on anything, although springer air rifles and shotguns might be a bit harsh for them.

Rimfire scopes usually allow focusing closer than many centrefire scopes, although my AR-Optics focus back to 10m.
I have eleven 4.5-18x40 scopes, all 223BDC, on everything - .22's, .204, .223, .243, 6.5x55mm, 7mm-08, etc.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by bladeracer » 07 Nov 2018, 7:13 am

eddahenry wrote:Im my books Spend as much on the glass as you do the gun is pretty much it'
You woulnt put 4000 dollars woth of Yokohama on a 200 dollar sigma
Just like you wouldn't put the $49 bob Jane specials on a supercar


I don't consider price to have any relevance to quality at all.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by Zappa » 07 Nov 2018, 7:35 am

would one of these fit the bill ?
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Re: Scope planes

Post by bladeracer » 07 Nov 2018, 7:42 am

Zappa wrote:would one of these fit the bill ?


That's what I use.
Unforunately, I never paid the current deals for mine :-)

Bushnell have the newer version out now, double the price but comes with a throw-down lever.

If you want a throw-down lever try this - https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10450
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Re: Scope planes

Post by SCJ429 » 10 Nov 2018, 9:38 am

So what did you end up buying?
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Re: Scope planes

Post by bladeracer » 10 Nov 2018, 10:21 am

Zappa wrote:@bladeracer :the Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x40 you use, can I also throw it on a howa 1500 .223 without any dramas provided I can use the same rings ? Would I need a mounting rail on the two rifles to make moving backwards and forward easier ?


I missed this bit of your question.
If both rifles have a rail then you can swap the scope between them, but you will have to zero it each time. Although you could note what the differences are in windage and elevation. I always look down the bore to check the scope is at least close after I install it, even when it was previously zeroed, I don't want bullets going where I don't point them.
If one rifle has separate bases I would recommend loosening one of the rings, mounting the scope, and then tightening the ring, just to ensure any misalignment of the bases doesn't twist the scope tube. Also, separate bases probably won't match the through-bolts of the rings - which should be pushed forward against the rail during installation so the scope won't move under recoil.
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Re: Scope planes

Post by Zappa » 10 Nov 2018, 6:12 pm

SCJ429 wrote:So what did you end up buying?



The Bushnell AR 4.5-18x40 as pictured for the centrefire and the Bushnell RIMFIRE 6-18x40 with the 17hmr and 22LR turrrets.

Life's too short to be moving scopes around from rifle to rifle.

I think the Bushnell range from what I;ve seen is the best bang for buck. I'll be going straight to the Leupold after this.
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