Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Sep 2019, 10:38 am

I am still amazed by how good LED torches are which makes spotlighting so much easier. In years to come I am sure night vision will take over and I am interested to see what is coming out and peoples experience using them. Sometimes I need to be more patient and tolerant of posters when they share what they have learned
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by ramshackle » 17 Oct 2019, 12:49 pm

Told.you.so.

a8309cc6-b935-49b7-964c-65296a0f1019.jpg
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Blr243 » 17 Oct 2019, 1:17 pm

Curious People wanting to look into the ends of torches that show no visible light reminds me of something I did when I was a kid. I was told and warned never to stick anything into powerpoints and that the electricity within was extremely dangerous and often fatal ..so as soon as I had some time alone unsupervised I was sticking cutlery in there to find out for myself I did not get a shock but I remember a flash and black burn marks on the outside of the point. Fortunately these days we have plastic inserts to prevent entry of foreign objects and earth leakage safety devices . I’m fifty and in the construction industry. Never had a proper boot. One shock can end it all ....probably feels like a land cruiser hitting you at 100 kph
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by bladeracer » 17 Oct 2019, 1:28 pm

Blr243 wrote:Curious People wanting to look into the ends of torches that show no visible light reminds me of something I did when I was a kid. I was told and warned never to stick anything into powerpoints and that the electricity within was extremely dangerous and often fatal ..so as soon as I had some time alone unsupervised I was sticking cutlery in there to find out for myself I did not get a shock but I remember a flash and black burn marks on the outside of the point. Fortunately these days we have plastic inserts to prevent entry of foreign objects and earth leakage safety devices . I’m fifty and in the construction industry. Never had a proper boot. One shock can end it all ....probably feels like a land cruiser hitting you at 100 kph


When I was a kid I was asked to move a washing machine...that was turned on...and leaking copious amounts of water. It threw me against the wall three times before I worked out what was going on :-)

A bit later on I decided to wire a washing machine motor straight to the end of an extension lead. I switçhed on and got an almighty bang, a blinding flash, and a cloud of thick smoke out of the motor and the power point - luckily no boot from that one though!

I've had lots of hefty electrical zaps, often using power tools in wet weather.
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by xDom » 17 Oct 2019, 4:48 pm

Ah Ramshackle, the forums favourite c**khead..

This letter is, in the words of your wise leader,

FAKE NEWS.
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Stix » 17 Oct 2019, 6:50 pm

ramshackle wrote:Told.you.so.

a8309cc6-b935-49b7-964c-65296a0f1019.jpg

Who's the letter from...???
And who's it to...???

And what country is it in...?

And if not AU, how do their standards differ to ours...??

If its all genuine, & you are geniune, you'll post up the actual info so others arent harmed... :unknown:

Whilst im nit saying its fake, what you've posted holds no credibility--its just type on a peice of paper...just like a placard in a GCA demonstration says "sound moderators kill"...

So in all reality...all you've done is poke your head back in the door & blown a raspberry, & ran away quickly...
:unknown:
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Raband » 17 Oct 2019, 8:02 pm

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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by ramshackle » 17 Oct 2019, 8:19 pm

↑ This fella has waaaaaaaay too much time on his hands.

The letter was posted on UK forums.

The best guess is it was written by Drew of Drews Lab.

We can only speculate at his reasons for sending this letter, but my number one reason would be simple - he's trying to cover his bum in case Trading Standards try to prosecute people selling PARDs because they exceed the power limits RECOMMENDED by Public Health England in this document https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ety-advice


How long before Aus wakes up?

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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Raband » 17 Oct 2019, 8:36 pm

ramshackle wrote:↑ This fella has waaaaaaaay too much time on his hands.



Just bored and drunk lol

Did a google search for recalls and got nothing - not that I was expecting to find any (legit or otherwise) - no slight on you, just doubt the CN publish them

Thought I may as well shoot the messenger and earn some forum points ;)

Am 50/50 on who's side to take here - mates son bought himself a laser from China and looked down the barrel - now has a burnt retina for the rest of his life.

Am more of the idea that safety labels should be warnings, not reasons to stop people using the product - do stupid s**t, stupid s**t happens to you

The idea of a sight that makes sure the deer/pig/game you shoot after dark will have zero parrisites left alive on it when I go to butcher it excites me
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by duncan61 » 17 Oct 2019, 8:52 pm

Ramshackle,My therapist does not believe your real and I have imagined you.But your back!!!
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by xDom » 17 Oct 2019, 8:56 pm

The boys over on the UK forum ( same forum Ram got chucked off from ) have their thoughts on the matter.

https://nightvisionforumuk.com/viewtopic.php?t=21267
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Stix » 17 Oct 2019, 10:31 pm

xDom wrote:The boys over on the UK forum ( same forum Ram got chucked off from ) have their thoughts on the matter.

https://nightvisionforumuk.com/viewtopic.php?t=21267

When i try that link it wants me to join to read it...
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by duncan61 » 17 Oct 2019, 11:26 pm

me too
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by xDom » 18 Oct 2019, 5:28 am

Yeah sorry fellas, forgot about that.

Here’s one of the posts in response to this.

“.. Hi...
I would describe this letter as one more competition attempt to sabotage Pard sale..
Drew's lab is unfortunatelly spreading false claims made by Thomas Jack's since their sale is effected by Pard products to a point that they dont have any other answer but false claims..
In the end 60/70 % of Pard users buy stronger ir based on same vcsel laser named Sirius xtl or Pbir laser or Solaris cause Pard one is weaker..so situation is very clear here.
Pard NV007 and NV008 are registered and patented in EU and have CE and ROHS certificate so that is way more solid then Thomas Jacks "indipendent testing"..
Pard units are safe to use same as any other nv units with fact that they offer excellent value for money what can't be said for some of competition that is trying to make some advantage in this cheap way..
Cheers”

Thing is, no one has actually received one of these letters. A huge amount of posters on that forum have Pards and not one of them got the letter.

It was that particular photo on a few forums, Facebook and the likes.
Ramshackle has picked it up and ran with it. Out of genuine concern for us “dumb aussies”? Doubt it. To be the Erin Brockovich of night vision? Nope... He’s doing it coz he wants to be right.
Maybe he should just go and hang out with his professional kids and medical colleagues instead. Maybe go and make some noise about it on that other forum he runs.... flog.
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Stix » 18 Oct 2019, 6:22 pm

Gees xDom...

You shut that down pretty quick...!!... :) :drinks:

Some of us may have been looking for some entertainment you know... :?

And i wanted a reason to use my new word of the week...Ultracrepidarianism.... 8-)
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by xDom » 18 Oct 2019, 7:12 pm

:D That’s a great ****** word Stix. I googled it and am now fully prepared to rip it out on the next loud mouth at smoko
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by ramshackle » 21 Oct 2019, 7:01 am

xDom wrote:I would describe this letter as one more competition attempt to sabotage Pard sale.. Drew's lab is unfortunatelly spreading false claims made by Thomas Jack's since their sale is effected by Pard products to a point that they don't have any other answer but false claims.. In the end 60/70 % of Pard users buy stronger ir based on same vcsel laser named Sirius xtl or Pbir laser or Solaris cause Pard one is weaker.. so situation is very clear here. Pard NV007 and NV008 are registered and patented in EU and have CE and ROHS certificate so that is way more solid then Thomas Jacks "indipendent testing".. Pard units are safe to use same as any other nv units with fact that they offer excellent value for money what can't be said for some of competition that is trying to make some advantage in this cheap way..
Cheers


Above you've quoted "Bruce", who is basically a PARD employee, receiving free products from them, and writing their user manuals, and also receiving, I suspect, a paycheck (although he denies it). Certainly by claiming to know about their patents and trademarks, he betrays his communications with the product distributors and/or manufacturers, which indicates a certain intimacy.

More recently, "Bruce" made this post in another forum:

Because the PARDs have been so successful, sales of Pulsar and Yukon NV kit have been declining steeply, and it's hurting TJs profits.
They don't like that, and they think the competition from PARD is unfair because the IR illuminator in the PARDs is of a class that Public Health England recommend should not be sold to the public.
Note the words RECOMMEND and SHOULD - there's nothing mandatory about it.
In addition, the Public Health England Guidance was based on visible laser pointers of the types beloved by the idiots who shine them at aircraft coming into land.
There are already laws in place to punish people who do stupid stuff like that.
The IR illuminators in the PARDs are not like laser pointers, the IR produced by the PARDs spreads out like a normal beam from a torch - it simply cannot be made to be as narrow as that produced by a laser pointer.
The fact that the IR from the PARD spreads out makes it much, much less dangerous than a laser.
It is more dangerous than an LED, but the risk of eye damage from a PARD illuminator is far lower than with a conventional IR laser, such as an N1000.
I have spent several weeks working my way through the technical standards for both lasers and LED based illuminators and developing measuring techniques that can be applied to the PARDs and other commercially available illuminators, both laser and LED based.
Hopefully, in the coming weeks I'll be able to post the results of these measurements and compare them with the recommended exposure limits so that people can judge for themselves if they think the the risks posed by different types and models of IR illuminators are acceptable to them
Cheers
Bruce


Points to note:

  1. Bruce claims —without any real proof— that the concerns and recalls are all the doings of a competitor. We'll soon find out if that's true or not, because I'm sure the UK's Public Health England are investigating.
  2. He admits that the PARD products have unusually strong laser emitters
  3. He does not admit that these lasers are inadequately labelled (should have 3A warning labels)
  4. He claims, without any proof, that VCSEL lasers are safer than other lasers, which I could not corroborate despite a long search online. I challenged him about this and he was unable to provide proof for his claims. On the other hand, I was able to provide proof of the opposite, IOW that VCSEL lasers are dangerous. There is no text on the internet claiming, as Bruce does, that these lasers are in any way "safer".

So we shall await developments. Meanwhile, buyer beware. I actually have a NV007 in my possession for review, so I'll have more to say soon (perhaps not here).
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 21 Oct 2019, 7:17 am

Mate i agree the pard is dangerous,i am happy to take it off your hand as its dangerous to your eyes. I will fight against pard to get what you paid back thus saving you the hassle and take 50% of the money returned.

Alternatively i can pay you $50 towards shipping and i will recycle the product.
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by bigpete » 21 Oct 2019, 8:06 am

God I hope it's not here
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Stix » 21 Oct 2019, 8:11 am

ramshackle wrote:[Meanwhile, buyer beware. I actually have a NV007 in my possession for review, so I'll have more to say soon (perhaps not here).

Well im taking a different tact...

Why do you say "perhaps not here"...?

Why wouldnt you want to post your review of the gear here...?

Im not being smart...i dont understand why...?
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by bigpete » 21 Oct 2019, 8:25 am

Stix,if you're serious,you can look at mine in person
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by xDom » 21 Oct 2019, 8:30 am

"...Above you've quoted "Bruce", who is basically a PARD employee, ."

How do you know this?
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by ramshackle » 21 Oct 2019, 8:43 am

xDom wrote:"...Above you've quoted "Bruce", who is basically a PARD employee, ."

How do you know this?


Itis pretty obvious that he's in their pocket. He admits to receiving free kit from them, and you'll find him popping up all over the internet to defend them and promote their products, and he make videos promoting them, writes User Manuals for the Pard products, knows stuff about the patents and trademarks that we don't know ....

I think we can safely assume some sort of relationship between Mr Bruce and PARD.

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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by xDom » 21 Oct 2019, 8:48 am

so, all the guys on that forum that defend the Pard are in their pocket?
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by ramshackle » 21 Oct 2019, 9:07 am

xDom wrote:so, all the guys on that forum that defend the Pard are in their pocket?


WTF? Did you not read what I wrote? How many guys have that profile?
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Stix » 21 Oct 2019, 9:18 am

ramshackle wrote:
xDom wrote:"...Above you've quoted "Bruce", who is basically a PARD employee, ."

How do you know this?


Itis pretty obvious that he's in their pocket. He admits to receiving free kit from them, and you'll find him popping up all over the internet to defend them and promote their products, and he make videos promoting them, writes User Manuals for the Pard products, knows stuff about the patents and trademarks that we don't know ....

I think we can safely assume some sort of relationship between Mr Bruce and PARD.

Image

Speaking of ducks...so that must make you an employee of pulsar then... (?)!!!!!
Popping up on the internet with obtuse argumentative posts about your opposition product...???!!!

And whats with the blatant ignorance towards me...?

I asked you a question...

Why dont you want to post your thoughts of the product here... :unknown:

You say you're intention is to help & educate us, yet niw you claim to have a unit for testing & suggest you'll likely not post your findings here...

This doesnt add up...

Ignore me all you like, but im asking on behalf of other interested parties as well...
Im sure they'd like to know why you're here, promoting your greatness, along with your attempts in demeaning members, & purposely baiting anyone for response with your utterly childish & immature stabs we ith such comments as..
ramshackle wrote:[
So we shall await developments. Meanwhile, buyer beware. I actually have a NV007 in my possession for review, so I'll have more to say soon (perhaps not here).


Can someone copy & paste this post into a pm to Tamshackle, so he cant claim to not have seen my post...

Quack...quack...qkw-qkw-qkw-qwaaaackkk......
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Stix » 21 Oct 2019, 9:23 am

ramshackle wrote:
xDom wrote:so, all the guys on that forum that defend the Pard are in their pocket?


WTF? Did you not read what I wrote? How many guys have that profile?

Yes...he read what you wrote...

The problem is you fail to understand what xDom wrote...

I wonder---do you keep your receipts for your groceries...???

If you do, id suggest you take the receipt back to your supermarket & demand a refund on that box of weeties you got your edumacation & doctorate out of...!!!
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Oct 2019, 11:50 am

:lol: YAY!!!! Rams back - wooohooo
Please check out the climate thread :clap:
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by Stix » 22 Oct 2019, 5:23 am

bigpete wrote:Stix,if you're serious,you can look at mine in person

Well i was serious...serious about this clowns intentions... (old Ramo the doctor... :roll: )

Something like that would go just dandy on the light shy bunnies in the mallee...they get jumpy & start to bolt at 200, but i can drive to within 40-50 with no lights on...
so let me know if it ever works its way over there... :)
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Re: Laser Safety — the dangers of Night Vision shooting

Post by xDom » 22 Oct 2019, 6:08 am

Stix wrote:
bigpete wrote:Stix,if you're serious,you can look at mine in person

Well i was serious...serious about this clowns intentions... (old Ramo the doctor... :roll: )

Something like that would go just dandy on the light shy bunnies in the mallee...they get jumpy & start to bolt at 200, but i can drive to within 40-50 with no lights on...
so let me know if it ever works its way over there... :)



I'm in Bendigo, if you're interested in picking it up for a weekend. No problem.
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