Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

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Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by Zappa » 03 Jan 2019, 6:00 pm

Managed to strip two scope ring screws that keep the holder down. These things apparently aren't designed to be touched once you fix the scope. I have to move the scope to different guns a few times and therefore stripped the darn things. Especially aluminium being soft as butter.

These are your generic 4 allen screw retainers and I think the screws are M4.

Are they worth fixing ie drill a larger hole and go a size up like m4 ? Or helicoil it with steel inserts ? Lol
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by pomemax » 03 Jan 2019, 6:17 pm

do you have a photo of what you think s stripped
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jan 2019, 6:54 pm

Zappa wrote:Managed to strip two scope ring screws that keep the holder down. These things apparently aren't designed to be touched once you fix the scope. I have to move the scope to different guns a few times and therefore stripped the darn things. Especially aluminium being soft as butter.

These are your generic 4 allen screw retainers and I think the screws are M4.

Are they worth fixing ie drill a larger hole and go a size up like m4 ? Or helicoil it with steel inserts ? Lol


I can only guess you are over-tightening them, they don't need to be tight, the scope is held by the surface area of the ring, not by the screws.
Have you torn the thread out of the hole or torn the thread off the screws?
You can simply replace them, or Heli-coil them, or drill and tap for larger screws, but over-tightening will still damage them, and your scope.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jan 2019, 7:25 pm

I am always nervous when doing scope stuff.My Sendero got damp in a bag and to remove the rust I had to remove all the scope mounts which was where the rust was to polish all the surfaces with a dremel.Fortunately we do jewelry in our spare time so no problem.I have just rebuilt a diesel 4 cylinder and become accustomed to NM and would suggest no more than 20 NM for the screws.Simple job to bore to the next size and tap it.Firm then 90 degrees would work
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by Zappa » 03 Jan 2019, 7:38 pm

bladeracer wrote:Have you torn the thread out of the hole or torn the thread off the screws?
You can simply replace them, or Heli-coil them, or drill and tap for larger screws, but over-tightening will still damage them, and your scope.



I dont think im overtightening them. I snug them then an 1/8th turn is all I give them. A thread pulled out of the hole enough to cause the screw not to grab due to removing them constantly.

Steel screws in aluminium and constant fuddling , is a recipe for disaster.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jan 2019, 8:03 pm

Zappa wrote:I dont think im overtightening them. I snug them then an 1/8th turn is all I give them. A thread pulled out of the hole enough to cause the screw not to grab due to removing them constantly.

Steel screws in aluminium and constant fuddling , is a recipe for disaster.


I would leave them at "snug" and don't go any further.

You would think that, but then motorcycle engines have been steel bolts into aluminium threads for decades, even car engines have cylinder head bolts into aluminium threads.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by Zappa » 03 Jan 2019, 9:52 pm

can anyone tell me what that allen screw that is recessed into the rear ring , is for ? height adjuster ??

https://imgur.com/a/wzgI6Xi
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jan 2019, 10:45 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Zappa wrote:I dont think im overtightening them. I snug them then an 1/8th turn is all I give them. A thread pulled out of the hole enough to cause the screw not to grab due to removing them constantly.

Steel screws in aluminium and constant fuddling , is a recipe for disaster.


I would leave them at "snug" and don't go any further.

You would think that, but then motorcycle engines have been steel bolts into aluminium threads for decades, even car engines have cylinder head bolts into aluminium threads.


And thus was born the helicoil and thread strip removal tools all over the world...Igbo had a dollar for every mate who over tightened a sump plug...grrrrr....

I’d guess that back Allen key would be utilised for additionally securing the ring base...
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by straightshooter » 04 Jan 2019, 7:46 am

Zappa wrote:Managed to strip two scope ring screws that keep the holder down. These things apparently aren't designed to be touched once you fix the scope. I have to move the scope to different guns a few times and therefore stripped the darn things. Especially aluminium being soft as butter.

These are your generic 4 allen screw retainers and I think the screws are M4.

Are they worth fixing ie drill a larger hole and go a size up like m4 ? Or helicoil it with steel inserts ? Lol


Just how precious are the rings?
If they are relatively cheap Made in China irrespective of brand name then any effort may be wasted.
If they must be repaired it may be relatively easy to make steel threaded stepped inserts that are pressed in from the underside and thus retain the original appearance, as helicoils may be no stronger.
A 'rule of thumb' is that for steel on steel you need roughly as much thread engagement as the thickness of the steel screw and for steel in aluminium you need six times the thickness of the threaded steel screw.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by Zappa » 04 Jan 2019, 11:43 am

straightshooter wrote:Just how precious are the rings?
If they are relatively cheap Made in China irrespective of brand name then any effort may be wasted.
If they must be repaired it may be relatively easy to make steel threaded stepped inserts


It's not that they're precious, they're chinese crp. it's just that I only have one GS around me and they dont stock them.
It takes approx two weeks to get anything in and you kind of get used to the idea of trying to salvage something, just to keep the show on the road.
It also reduces landfill so added bonus.

Where does one obtain those stepped inserts you mention ?
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Jan 2019, 11:46 am

Buy some quick release mounts if you are going to be constantly changing from rifle to rifle.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by pomemax » 04 Jan 2019, 3:18 pm

if thats your scope in the picture you could tap them out but don,t forget you may need to counter bore the top half for the head of the screw or reduce the head down to the size you have now if any the screw in the rear is to lift the dove tail lock into place (underside of clamp ) if slightly lose .
Just as a mater of point if the photo is your hand with the Allen key tool in your hand lose that tool it lets you torque the screws to much the reason Allen key are the length they are is for torque , if it way too long as that is you will strip the bolts
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jan 2019, 4:12 pm

TassieTiger wrote:And thus was born the helicoil and thread strip removal tools all over the world...Igbo had a dollar for every mate who over tightened a sump plug...grrrrr....


I've had two mates that would strip just about everything they put a spanner on, including sump plugs :-)
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jan 2019, 4:13 pm

Zappa wrote:can anyone tell me what that allen screw that is recessed into the rear ring , is for ? height adjuster ??

https://imgur.com/a/wzgI6Xi


I would guess that screw is for locking the ring into place on a rail so it can't move fore-aft.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by Bazooker » 04 Jan 2019, 4:29 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Zappa wrote:can anyone tell me what that allen screw that is recessed into the rear ring , is for ? height adjuster ??

https://imgur.com/a/wzgI6Xi


I would guess that screw is for locking the ring into place on a rail so it can't move fore-aft.


To add to Bladeracer's observation, it would locate into a slot or recess something like the one seen in the forward dovetail in the photo. This stops the mounts sliding along the dovetail due to recoil.

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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jan 2019, 4:35 pm

Zappa wrote:It's not that they're precious, they're chinese crp. it's just that I only have one GS around me and they dont stock them.
It takes approx two weeks to get anything in and you kind of get used to the idea of trying to salvage something, just to keep the show on the road.
It also reduces landfill so added bonus.

Where does one obtain those stepped inserts you mention ?


Just order some from China, probably get them quicker than ordering through a dealer.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by Zappa » 04 Jan 2019, 5:47 pm

bladeracer wrote:Just order some from China, probably get them quicker than ordering through a dealer.


Makes little diff to Canberra. 2-3 weeks from China . A little longer from a dealer.
Ebay is a crp shoot as well. Most purport to be in oz only to ship from China which takes just as long.

I'm going to tap them one size bigger and use longer screws for more thread engagement.
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Re: Stripped Allen screws - scope rings.

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Jan 2019, 7:23 pm

good luck with it all but I'm sure you will see the light in the end. :D Make sure you let us know how it all goes over time so others can learn from it all :D
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