One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by SCJ429 » 24 May 2019, 7:01 pm

The cheapest best quality optics which weigh the least are fixed power. A fixed power 36x might do the trick for target work.
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by marksman » 24 May 2019, 9:18 pm

decide on a good long distance scope and put detachable rings on then shoot close with iron sights :unknown:

if your eyes are good enough :lol: :lol: :lol:
mine are not :thumbsdown:
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by GQshayne » 24 May 2019, 10:40 pm

I will mention, once again, I am not a target shooter, so keep this in mind with my comments, as they will no doubt be hunting biased.

I would be getting a good quality variable for your hunting scope. My experience leads me to value low light performance highly, and that only comes with scopes in the higher price categories. But the mid range stuff is a good compromise. As an example, I recently set up a rifle for a grazier friend, and had to decide on a scope for a middle aged bloke whose eyes are not what they used to be - like many of us I suppose. He had an old Leupold 3-9 x 40.

So as the day got dimmer I lined up what I could between myself and my dad to do some light testing. I am very fortunate to have a Z6 Swarovski, and Dad a Zeiss. We put these beside the old Leupold, and my Meopta Meostar. Dad also has a Burris Fullfield. As expected the Zeiss and the Swarovski were excellent, and priced accordingly. The Meopta is cheaper, but still highly priced, and I cannot tell the difference. The Leupold and the Burris followed along.

But the Burris 4.5-14x42 is only about $700 and is pretty darn good for that price. My dad is 74, and he likes it. I would be quite happy with one too. It is not as good as the Meopta Meostar but is less than half the price. In a similar price point is the Meopta Meopro range. I have not looked at one, but they get good reviews.

Not sure what your hunting comprises of, but for me the Burris would be a great for a sit and shoot or spotlighting scope. For offhand shooting, close range hunting, or fast moving game like pigs, I would want a lower power variable. My .243 pig gun has a 1-6x24, and my other .243 has a 2-12x50. Both have good fields of view at low power for their intended purpose, but the 2-12 is bigger and heaver etc.
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by TassieTiger » 29 May 2019, 9:11 pm

So, I went over to a friends place where he asked a couple of his mates over so we could all talk guns and let me sample a few scopes on rifles.
It’s the first time I’ve been really able to look through a very large number of different scopes - all in one place and in one set of conditions.

It was very, very interesting and I am thinking that I am finally understanding the differences between top end scopes, middle range and lower end...some of which cannot be put into words...some of it’s almost a “feel”...

The ability to look through a top end scope like a swarkovski, literally side by side with a Zeiss, a Burris, a Leo, a bushnell, a vortex, Nikko, etc - and do it quickly, showcases the steps in quality...it was a privilege doing this.

What we did was ranged a matchbox at 80m and another at just shy of 400m and then I was asked to pick up a rifle / scope combination and then write down a number from 1-10 on if I’d happily take the shot from various power settings / focus / parallax set up per each range...

At the end of the test, there were 5 (out of 18) scopes that clearly stood out above all others, so then I looked at the weight, eye relief, price, what rings and bases I had already available, etc.

I finally got to look at a Burris 6500 - 4.5-30 what a beautiful scope for the money! The one I was looking through had a tiny scratch on objective lens and it hurt my evaluation - cause it ****** me lol. The real issue for me was the size of the thing and the busy as reticle - seriously, the optics are pretty great but if your barrel gets hot - take the scope off and play baseball with it...or club a seal or bash in a star picket. The reticle also obscured detail on higher mags - frustratingly, once passed 16x for this test, the box was being covered up by cross hairs and wind ages, bdc dots etc. If not for the weight and reticle choice...hmmm. For a carry rifle though?

The mark 5 Leo in 3-15 was amazing but at $2200 it was not a huge step forward in optics from the mark 4 or even vx 3 Leo...and this unit had target turrets that just felt too big. They stood very tall and it was a little off putting but what I found was the very very fine duplex reticle helped make the most of the magnification that was actually available and swapping between the Burris on say 24x and the the Leo on 15x found the Leo clearer with more detail available - so I scored the Leo higher, despite having more mag available on the Burris.

The swarkovski z8 2-16 was similar to the mark 5 Leo but much more expensive...but it had a feel about it that oozed an indescribable quality or maybe it was placebo - but the turret turns felt engineered by a scientist...I’d not be happy if I scratched it hunting! Price was more than I’m happy spending on a scope and in real world terms, I couldn’t see huge optical steps over the others.

The zeiss z8i 3-20 was the standout for my eyes. At 400m I could see detail on the little box like no other scope. I understand why ppl would pay $5k for this thing and it’s going on my vision board...once I get a vision board. Fark it was nice - and perfect for hunting and target shooting - THIS met all my design brief requirements bar 1 aspect....$$$

So what did I end up with? Well - I spoke with a lot of hunters and target shooters that night. I discussed the two scope option, quick release rings, etc. we discussed the type of hunting I do, the type of target shooting I currently do... the range distances I have access to. Etc. I looked again and again...

So I’ve settled on a mark 4 Leupold, 4-14 with fine duplex - But haven’t yet decided on 40/50mm bell as yet. Will need to measure but I think the 40 will suffice to help keep it low on the rifle.
The little Leo mark 4 was great at close distances with side parra adjustments and exceeded my expectations at 14x against the tiny target - with detail readable that really shouldn’t have been.
This scopes super fine reticle will allow for close quarter hunting, target shooting out to medium ranges, weight is 500 odd gms, eye relief is over 4 inches...price is around $1200.

I don’t think I’ve selected the best scope for either hunting or target shooting (the super fine reticle May be a hinderance when hunting in low light) - but I think I’ve settled on the best compromise across all aspects.

It was an experience doing this - I was lucky I had a friend who heard my frustration and helped out big time by getting together a collection of equipment - and now, I can finally understand why ppl lay down the $$$ being asked. Some of it is really not something that can be explained in type...

I’m Shopping now ;-)
Cheers TT.
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by Stix » 29 May 2019, 10:17 pm

Hey Tas....

Good story...& that would've been a good opportunity... :thumbsup:

For what its worth...i too used to think & mount scopes as close as possible to the barrel was paramount.

My opinion of this has changed over time, & i find having my line of sight a few measily millimetres cliser to the bore makes bugger-all difference in killing things.

Infact, ive found the further away (higher mounted) the scope, the more versatile the outfit when it comes to taking prone shots in hilly terrain.

For me, id go the 50mm objective...i recently mounted a 40mm 6-24 on a rifle after having the same mag but in 50mm on it, & have noticed the light difference at dusk.

I feel there are more benefits/or the benefits are greater for a 50mm scope mounted less than 6mm higher.

You still get a good enoigh cheek weld, & its easier to shoot up hill when plonked over a pack, a log or bipod from prone....
& its better in low dim light--that would surely help on deer at dawn/dusk... :unknown:

Line of sight distance to bore is really only applicable to shooting very close--so that <6mm would really only make a difference in hold-over if head shooting mice at less than 50 yds....& with a 30-06... :unknown:

Just my thoughts...
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by bigfellascott » 30 May 2019, 12:03 am

Bell End? What the hell do you want to be looking through the head of a penis for? :lol: Objective Lens Son that's what it should be really referred to, if ya keep running around referring to a 40mm bell end you might get some pommie dropping his out for ya to look at. :lol: :sarcasm:
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by TassieTiger » 30 May 2019, 7:38 am

It’s an interesting discussion re 40-50 bell ends...sorry, ob-gektifve lens.
It was broached at the gathering and promoted a shared response...lower mounts catch less in the bush, higher mounts give better clearances, lower mounts align line of sight to barrel, high mounts allow more light via larger obj and so on...it was a bit of a split decision to be honest.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by TassieTiger » 30 May 2019, 7:42 am

bigfellascott wrote:Bell End? What the hell do you want to be looking through the head of a penis for? :lol: Objective Lens Son that's what it should be really referred to, if ya keep running around referring to a 40mm bell end you might get some pommie dropping his out for ya to look at. :lol: :sarcasm:


I’m not named Big Tassie Tiger...I’m just Tassie Tiger...now if I prefaced my name with BIG I’d expect a 50m bell end would be a minimum and would expect ongoing scoffs at mere mentions of 40mm bell ends, even if they were 12inch long scopes.

“Hey babe, wanna go and play with my objective lens”...doesn’t sound right...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by bigrich » 30 May 2019, 8:52 am

Ya won’t go wrong with a Leo taz , and they have a lifetime garuntee. Meopta are the only other mid range scope that I like , but they can be a bit too beefy for bolt clearance, like a zeiss I used to have
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by bigfellascott » 30 May 2019, 10:27 am

TassieTiger wrote:It’s an interesting discussion re 40-50 bell ends...sorry, ob-gektifve lens.
It was broached at the gathering and promoted a shared response...lower mounts catch less in the bush, higher mounts give better clearances, lower mounts align line of sight to barrel, high mounts allow more light via larger obj and so on...it was a bit of a split decision to be honest.


I like 50mm bell ends betterah, they just let that much more light in than the 40mm bell ends which suits my needs better, as for mounts just buy the ones that allow the scope to sit as low as possible to the barrel, that's all I've ever done, as for mounts making a difference in the bush, f*** knows, never noticed any diff to be honest, I don't drag my rifle behind me so it can get caught on anything, it's always cradled in my arms. :unknown:
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by bigfellascott » 30 May 2019, 10:28 am

TassieTiger wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Bell End? What the hell do you want to be looking through the head of a penis for? :lol: Objective Lens Son that's what it should be really referred to, if ya keep running around referring to a 40mm bell end you might get some pommie dropping his out for ya to look at. :lol: :sarcasm:


I’m not named Big Tassie Tiger...I’m just Tassie Tiger...now if I prefaced my name with BIG I’d expect a 50m bell end would be a minimum and would expect ongoing scoffs at mere mentions of 40mm bell ends, even if they were 12inch long scopes.

“Hey babe, wanna go and play with my objective lens”...doesn’t sound right...


Do you really think your mother, brother and sister are that fussy as to the size of ya bell end? I'm sure they still love it no matter what size ya bell end is :sarcasm: :lol:
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by TassieTiger » 30 May 2019, 10:59 am

Geeezus... are we going to walk down this road are we...originality’s getting hard to find. :sarcasm:
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by Stix » 30 May 2019, 11:11 am

So...you prefer a smaller bell & a tighter fit in narrow rings... :? ...
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by TassieTiger » 30 May 2019, 11:26 am

Are we still talking about optics?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by bigfellascott » 30 May 2019, 11:54 am

:lol: :lol: :friends:
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by GQshayne » 30 May 2019, 5:37 pm

What hunting you do is very important, and you have not mentioned it. But I note that it was discussed with the group. I am sure they will have taken this into account. One of the things I look at for a scrub scope is field of view, and low power scopes are king here. But if your hunting does not include moving targets at close range then it is not an issue. Horses for courses.

And in my experience, your testing has not taken into account one of the advantages of the higher priced scopes - low light performance. Good quality medium priced scopes stack up very well against them during the day. But after the sun has dipped, in the twilight, then scopes such as Zeiss, Swaroski, Meopta etc will show an advantage. Reckon the Leo will be pretty good here too.

As you say, putting them side by side, is a great way of seeing what you pay your money for, and also helping you decide what it is you really need, especially in terms of magnification.
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by TassieTiger » 30 May 2019, 6:03 pm

GQshayne wrote:What hunting you do is very important, and you have not mentioned it. But I note that it was discussed with the group. I am sure they will have taken this into account. One of the things I look at for a scrub scope is field of view, and low power scopes are king here. But if your hunting does not include moving targets at close range then it is not an issue. Horses for courses.

And in my experience, your testing has not taken into account one of the advantages of the higher priced scopes - low light performance. Good quality medium priced scopes stack up very well against them during the day. But after the sun has dipped, in the twilight, then scopes such as Zeiss, Swaroski, Meopta etc will show an advantage. Reckon the Leo will be pretty good here too.

As you say, putting them side by side, is a great way of seeing what you pay your money for, and also helping you decide what it is you really need, especially in terms of magnification.


We were under a house, late in the afternoon and it was pouring with rain - so although it wasn’t twilight, it was close. But I agree 100% - the exy scopes showed edge detail well in advance of the leupolds - but, with your eye back to the centre of the picture, the clarity evened out.

My hunting for this particular rifle will be based in heavy timber, pine forest, open plains, plantation forest and everything in between - foot stalking predominantly for wallaby, deer, rabbits, the usuals...I have a crop protection permit so I can spot light but I wouldn’t do it with this set up. This is a reason that weight was a big factor for me. I’m not on for or that desperate to risk a rifle shot on a moving quarry, so field of view on lower mags whilst still important , I rated less critical for this set up.

What impressed me the most was the target ability of the 14x - I’ve had / currently have a AR 4-18, vortex 3-12, redfield 3-9, a vx2 6-18, etc etc etc but the mark 4 on 14x was so much better than I anticipated - it is up there with my vx3 6.5-20...but I think part of this was down to the ultra thin reticle - but it was the deal sealer for me regardless.

Let’s face it almost any semi decent 3-9 would suffice for 90% hunting situations so, I was looking for a hunting scope that could sometimes target shoot...think I’ve found it and I dropped a deposit today. :-)
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by GQshayne » 31 May 2019, 7:16 pm

Good stuff, sure it will be good for you.

As you say, as 3-9x40 would cover a lot of options as a good allrounder. For many years, this is what most used anyway, fixed 4 powers and 6 powers, and the good old 3-9 were your options for many years. I ran a 2-7x32 for about 30 years, and it was good. It has been replaced with a Z6 Swarovski in 1-6, which is far superior, but the old 2-7 accounted for a lot of pigs. It is still going (a World Class Tasco back when they were a quality item), and is now fitted on my cousins BLR.
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Re: One scope to rule them all? Is there one??

Post by TassieTiger » 31 May 2019, 7:27 pm

Well Stix, yourself, others have convinced me to go bigger - against my initial wants...so I’ve gone 30mm tube and 50mm bell...I mean objective lens. Mark 4 4-14 Leo. $1200 brand new. It’s heavier by 200 grams than the 40mm so I’ll have to have a wee before setting off to offset additional weight.
Can’t wait to mount the big bell end and show the missus
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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