Best value night vision scope deals

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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by xDom » 11 Aug 2019, 5:21 pm

My clip on is a digital. I’d be surprised if any of the NV’s under $2k weren’t digital.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by Stix » 11 Aug 2019, 8:24 pm

Blr243 wrote:Snakes are another problem walking in the dark. Die to the lack of colour in my thermal scope a fox at a distance is close to the same shape as a kelpie I deal with that by ensuring working dogs are kept strictly close to home base and I only shoot a hell of a long way from home base


Yep...
Every farm i shoot on i ask the farmer--"what about dogs...?..."

I dont shoot on land where dogs arent either locked up, or around the house...

I dont want to shoot anyones dog, but all farmers want me to shoot foxes if i see them around the house &/or yard...

We come to an agreement that i take all care & no responsibility, but i always back out of it...during summer through to Easter earlier in the year ive come accross 3 fox looking creatures close or close-ish to houses & backed out of the shot every time only to have the farmer tell me next day that it had to be a fox as they locked dogs up just in case...ah well... :unknown:

I rather take the thought "ill get him next time" than have what id imagine to be god awful feeling of having to pick up the farmers dog...

Better to be safe than sorry & always have that discussion.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 12 Aug 2019, 9:24 am

xDom wrote:My clip on is a digital. I’d be surprised if any of the NV’s under $2k weren’t digital.


I'm sure some are still using the photocathode technology. But digital does seem to be taking over.

The ATN X-Sight 4K Pro looks good to me. https://youtu.be/BKniEqSyeNs Not thermal, but still.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 12 Aug 2019, 10:05 am

Actually the evolution of night vision is much more complex than I'd imagined. Read this
http://aunv.blackice.com.au/forum?index ... enerations
(This page is dated, circa 2010, so things will have changed)

Looks like "digital" night vision —where you use a sensor similar to the one you have in a digital camera— is inferior to Gen 2 and 3 photocathode tubes, and not much use beyond 100m (good enough for me, BTW). Comments? I suspect that digital is now better than described in that document ...

... and I suspected correctly. Here's an update from Pulsar:

Digital Night Vision

These units do not use an intensifier tube, so it won’t be damaged when used during the day. These devices us a charge-coupled device (CCD) or complementary metal-oxide-semiconductor (CMOS) and a micro display. Light that is projected onto the CCD or CMOS array from the objective lens is converted to an electronic signal. This signal is then processed and sent to the micro display to be viewed by the user. Digital night vision devices can be compared to Gen 2 traditional night vision in quality, but are much more effective, due to an infrared illuminator. Some digital night vision devices are also able to record, zoom, and change reticles. This versatility, plus the affordability, makes digital a popular choice for hunters.


I'm starting to think that thermal optics, with their unreal prices, may be overkill for all but commercial hunters and pest controllers. Digital may be enough for 95% of hunters. Comments?
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by wanneroo » 12 Aug 2019, 10:41 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFDNEjJ0cME

Good video about digital vs. analog night vision.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 12 Aug 2019, 11:36 am

wanneroo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFDNEjJ0cME
Good video about digital vs. analog night vision.


Makes Gen 3 seem superior to the best digital, but I was thinking that even a little IR source would have put them on a par, plus the digital is much cheaper and more durable.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 12 Aug 2019, 1:01 pm

Sightmark Wraith HD 50mm, another digital contender: https://youtu.be/0SQEf3MlYWU
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 12 Aug 2019, 1:25 pm

I guess my next question is: how to work out the best digital scope. I'm used to hold over and under on my reticle to allow for elevation and windage, and I see that some of these digital offerings (e.g. ATN) allow you to input data and estimate distance based on putting a line over and under your prey .. this is where I get confused. The Sightmark Wraith seems to lack this ... so are you back to using hold overs and unders? The reticle used in the Wraith videos shows them spot on the target, making no allowance for distance, and using a plain reticle will no mil markings. Hard to believe they are always zeroed on that distance. How do they do it?

I've been out of shooting for many years (30 years actually), so forgive my ignorance.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by on_one_wheel » 12 Aug 2019, 5:11 pm

ramshackle wrote:Actually the evolution of night vision is much more complex than I'd think


They're definitely over thinking it.

I'm in the late R&D stages of developing my own night vision goggles, scope attachments, binoculars and monocular.

In layman's terms, they simply block out all light bouncing off objects that you aren't looking at, effectively intensifying light from objects you are looking. That also adjust your pupils maximising the light / Image area projected onto the back of your eyeballs.

At this stage they can be mass produced far cheaper than all current NV on the market.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by xDom » 12 Aug 2019, 5:30 pm

Do they have an IP66 rating? My concern is with moisture ingress.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by Stix » 12 Aug 2019, 5:38 pm

Lol...
Ive tried that model before...
on_one_wheel wrote:
ramshackle wrote:Actually the evolution of night vision is much more complex than I'd think


They're definitely over thinking it.

I'm in the late R&D stages of developing my own night vision goggles, scope attachments, binoculars and monocular.

In layman's terms, they simply block out all light bouncing off objects that you aren't looking at, effectively intensifying light from objects you are looking. That also adjust your pupils maximising the light / Image area projected onto the back of your eyeballs.

At this stage they can be mass produced far cheaper than all current NV on the market.
images (5).jpeg


they're on the money for having the most versatile exit pupil... :thumbsup: ... but i found a completely non-reflective matt black inner tube along with using them under an umbrella in the rain a better alternative...

BTW...i expect some royalty payments for improving your prototype...!!
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by wanneroo » 12 Aug 2019, 11:39 pm

ramshackle wrote:
wanneroo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFDNEjJ0cME
Good video about digital vs. analog night vision.


Makes Gen 3 seem superior to the best digital, but I was thinking that even a little IR source would have put them on a par, plus the digital is much cheaper and more durable.


Here's the problem though, digital is a battery hog, I'm sure it varies but as he points out in the video digital consumes 100x as much power.

The PVS-21 and PVS 14 I use at work use one AA battery and it lasts a long time. Also it's light in weight which is important if you are wearing them on your face for a while. That also might be a factor for people hunting on foot and dealing with a large scope or battery weight and consumption. I guess hunting from a vehicle, less a concern there.

Digital has certainly made progress. 25 years ago when my dad worked on digital color night vision, it worked but you had to put this massive helmet on your head with it being connected via a bunch of cables to a bank of computer towers.

Right now one of the big advances in night optics is goggles that do both thermal and regular light intensification and you can overlay the two images on one another. Haven't used those yet, but I did use some $50000 ones a few years ago that could switch between NV and thermal with a flick of a switch.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by wanneroo » 12 Aug 2019, 11:58 pm

ramshackle wrote:Sightmark Wraith HD 50mm, another digital contender: https://youtu.be/0SQEf3MlYWU


That doesn't look too bad for the money but looks like it needs some good IR illumination to make it work well, takes 4 AA batteries, uses USB for an external power source( :lol: ) and weighs a kilo sitting on your rifle.

It's like with cars, speed costs money how fast do you want to go. I think a lot of this stuff will work for folks at that lower price point, it just comes down to the extra weight, size and battery life you've got to deal with.

Maybe next year I'll get one of those scopes and build a 300 Blackout AR specifically for it.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 13 Aug 2019, 6:14 am

wanneroo wrote:It's like with cars, speed costs money how fast do you want to go. I think a lot of this stuff will work for folks at that lower price point, it just comes down to the extra weight, size and battery life you've got to deal with.


Wanneroo, thanks for that insight. I had not realised the large weight differential (and much thirstier power requirements), and that is very important to many hunters. Not to me, since I shoot on a smaller property and tend to lie in hiding and wait, but for those hoofing it around it could be a major factor.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Aug 2019, 6:30 am

Stix wrote:Lol...
Ive tried that model before...
on_one_wheel wrote:
ramshackle wrote:Actually the evolution of night vision is much more complex than I'd think


They're definitely over thinking it.

I'm in the late R&D stages of developing my own night vision goggles, scope attachments, binoculars and monocular.

In layman's terms, they simply block out all light bouncing off objects that you aren't looking at, effectively intensifying light from objects you are looking. That also adjust your pupils maximising the light / Image area projected onto the back of your eyeballs.

At this stage they can be mass produced far cheaper than all current NV on the market.
images (5).jpeg


they're on the money for having the most versatile exit pupil... :thumbsup: ... but i found a completely non-reflective matt black inner tube along with using them under an umbrella in the rain a better alternative...

BTW...i expect some royalty payments for improving your prototype...!!
:drinks:


They are not going to work in inclement weather - it’s a s**ty idea. BUT, maybe if you dip them in to some bobox, you’d preserve their qualities longer.
Royalty improvement payments to the same as previous thanks TT.
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Re: Best value thermal scope deals

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Aug 2019, 11:35 am

ramshackle wrote:My impression is that the cheapest way of getting into thermal is to combine a thermal monocular (such as the $1000 Flir or $1200 Leupold below), which is much cheaper than a thermal rifle scope, and a Gen 2 or Gen 3 IR scope. Correct me if I am wrong.
Image
Image

Note: bear in mind I am a max. 150 metres rimfire shooter.

Also, is there such a thing as an entry level thermal scope? I'm seeing a lot of scopes that do everything for you except pull the trigger. I don't want to take pictures or movies, have a GPS reading, a wifi, a rangefinder, a picture-in-picture, etc. :wtf:


My mate has one of those Leupold things, woeful and not worth it was his impression of it. He also has some sort of NV and he likes it but I hated it, it left me with blindness for a good min after using it each time (I think it was a Pulsar not sure of model).
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by marksman » 13 Aug 2019, 2:00 pm

it may be worth your time to read this post ramshackle and when you get to the end research the pard nv007 that Pete and xdom have bought
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11976
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 13 Aug 2019, 2:13 pm

marksman wrote:it may be worth your time to read this post ramshackle and when you get to the end research the pard nv007 that Pete and xdom have bought viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11976


Thanks Marksman, I'll read it now, but just to stimulate responses before I get going with that, what about a stand-alone unit like the Pard NV008? I don't have any sort of scope yet, so buying a clip-on for a conventional scope is perhaps not as smart as buying an all-in-one day-and-night unit? Yes or no?

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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by xDom » 13 Aug 2019, 2:29 pm

I looked into the 008, ended up going for the 007 to allow me to swap between rifles.
Bloke that imported them said the 008 is perhaps 10% better in performance than the 007.
As far as battery life goes, I get many hours out of it, only weighs 250gm as well.
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 13 Aug 2019, 3:36 pm

xDom wrote:I looked into the 008, ended up going for the 007 to allow me to swap between rifles.


I know one of these digital scopes, the ATN x-scope 4k pro I think (costs about AU$1.5K), saves "profiles" for each rifle, so you can move it from gun to gun and just call up the profile that includes the zero set, trajectory etc.

The weight is an issue for most people. Some of these digitals are hefty.
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by xDom » 13 Aug 2019, 5:32 pm

I have a compulsive disorder in that I obsessively read up on any item before purchasing. It took me six weeks before buying a pressure washer!
I don’t have first hand experience on any NV gear other than my own stuff, but I’ve read a lot of forums and opinions from others.
There seems to be a lot of people that say the ATN is heavy and has that many bells and whistles on it that it’s too complicated. It’s also said that it freezes up and needs to be rebooted on occasion.
The Pard is simple and light.
As I said, it’s only what I’ve read.
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 13 Aug 2019, 5:36 pm

From Pulsar video on Gen 1 Gen2 etc

Image

xDom wrote:the ATN is heavy and has that many bells and whistles on it that it’s too complicated. It’s also said that it freezes up and needs to be rebooted on occasion. The Pard is simple and light.


Exactly the sort of feedback I need, thanks! It's also much cheaper
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by xDom » 13 Aug 2019, 5:42 pm

If you do decide to go for the 007/008 I read that some have had issues with the EBay specials from China. Things like the menu being in Chinese.
Maybe better to pay a little more and get one from an Aussie importer.

Check out the links I put up before, Night Hunter.
You can email the guy and ask questions.
I think Pete got his real cheap, from where , I don’t know. have a chat to him
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 13 Aug 2019, 5:56 pm

Changing from Chinese to English is probably only a menu setting away. There's a google app that can translate for you just by pointing your phone at it. But thanks, yes, may be better to go with Night Hunter.

First want to do as you did, lots of research :)
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by marksman » 13 Aug 2019, 6:46 pm

I cant talk about the new ATN x-sight 4k pro but I did but one of there older x-sight 2's after reading all the hype about there cheaper digital night vision
I fried mine before being able to get it on a rifle and had a fair bit of trouble getting a refund, had to go to the maker to get an exchange
I had it sold before I received it, I would not buy another, the product was full of false promises that you had to wait for a patch to be bought out for a fix and most of the fixes were done by users who were good with that type of thing, you cant believe the salesman, but Pete and Xdom have these pard nv007's and can be relied on for a true review, I'm hinting at the kids and better half for one for xmass
like Xdom I would get the the pard nv007 because I would like to be able to fit the nv to multiple rifles :drinks:
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 13 Aug 2019, 8:05 pm

Looks like the market here for digital NV in Australia is mostly Pard NV007 and some ATN. Anybody bought the Sightmark Wraith yet? There must be a heap of other offerings around too .... I mean, these things are basically just digicams with an IR light thrown in on the side. There should be heaps.

Also would be good to hear from someone with the ATN X-Sight 4K Pro. Marksman, you are not the first report about the crappiness of their products, but I have seen some rave reviews as well.
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 14 Aug 2019, 9:20 am

ATN X-Scope II vs pigs https://youtu.be/lATDjYAWBkU

Good review of Sightmark Wraith https://youtu.be/GkgxHBoCjGE

Digital Night Vision vs Thermal https://youtu.be/7hYJ9BRIvdU
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by wanneroo » 14 Aug 2019, 12:42 pm

ramshackle wrote:From Pulsar video on Gen 1 Gen2 etc

Image

xDom wrote:the ATN is heavy and has that many bells and whistles on it that it’s too complicated. It’s also said that it freezes up and needs to be rebooted on occasion. The Pard is simple and light.




That photo looks phony baloney to me. Lets see the same man in the same stance and same exact lighting conditions for a side by side comparison.
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by mickb » 14 Aug 2019, 4:33 pm

Yes that photo is dodgy. Can someone explain what they mean by the digital NV example? Do they mean the cheapo stuff sold as digital? No way it works better than gen 2 and gen 3, at least the stuff I have seen.
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Re: Best value night vision scope deals

Post by ramshackle » 14 Aug 2019, 5:28 pm

marksman wrote:I cant talk about the new ATN x-sight 4k pro but I did but one of there older x-sight 2's after reading all the hype about there cheaper digital night vision. I fried mine before being able to get it on a rifle and had a fair bit of trouble getting a refund, had to go to the maker to get an exchange
I had it sold before I received it, I would not buy another, the product was full of false promises


The Amazon 1-star reviews of the ATN X-Sight 4K Pro would tend to support your experience, Marksman
https://www.amazon.com/ATN-Corporation- ... filter-bar

I see there may be some value in treating these new digiscopes that do everything bar wash the dishes with a degree of caution and scepticism. To that end, a simple add-on with a limited job to do, like the Pard NV007, may offer advantages.

Only problem is that I cannot find the Pard NV007 reviewed extensively anywhere, e.g. Amazon has only 1 review.
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