Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by zhuk » 18 Aug 2019, 5:30 am

Hey guys, bit of an interminable 'what scope should I get' question sorry I know lol but bear with me, bit of a long story but will try and cut it shorter.

Started shooting military matches in 2009, learning to shoot on a scoped club gun in field class (which happened to be a T3 in .223, all testament to that Finn workmanship that I made A grade in about 18 months). All set to save up and ultimately buy the gorgeous Sako I had my eye on...when another club member offered me a Longbranch No.4, for a knock-down bargain basement price. The rest as it is said, is history...with an indecent number of milsurps to my name now, and not a scope amongst them. Ffwd to more recently, one AC joint op later and arm nerve pain intermittently but since April its not been too good - turns out I have cervical disc degeneration and impingement happening. Not a lot they can do, but my physio has suggested that shooting full bore battle rifles regularly aren't going to make it any better in the long run - and I want to be able to keep shooting handguns as well. Suggestion was that a minimal recoil option might be best for regular shooting (I couldn't give up my beloved milsurps completely, just not for ongoing weekly comps). So I've come full circle back to the Tikka, which is apparently the T3x now.

But...there's the wholly unknown denominator of scopes to contend with :? lol

Never owned one, never had to set one up or do much adjusting. I'd like to keep as low on the stock as possible having been used to open sights for so long, while still being able to take it out to 500m+ on the rare occasions we get past 300m. I've come across a Nikon Monarch (M223?) at a fairly good price...4-16x42 which I don't know if it would be a) overkill or b) too large an objective. Since my only experience was the cheap little 3-9x40 Bushnell fom all those years ago. Seems to have a whole lot of bells & indecipherable whistles too lol...side focus (50-inf.), Tac/Targ Turrets, BDC Reticle etc. Might possibly be able to source a Conquest as well, in the configuration that I was used to.


This is going to have to be my workhorse, so the scope will have to be fairly reasonable without getting into what would be for me, more expensive territory.

Thoughts on the Monarch and clearance etc, anyone? Opinions and or suggestions would be very welcome.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Aug 2019, 9:21 am

What is the budget? Nightforce make a SHV for around $1,500, is that in the ball park? Nice glass and target turrets.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by zhuk » 18 Aug 2019, 10:39 am

G'day SC,

Alas no, I wish that was the ball park! but the scopes I'm looking at are pretty much a third of that price (both mentioned are secondhand however; the Conquest 500 & Nikon 450 - so that brings it down a fair bit compared to new) Not shooting precision rifle matches but service so it's not like I'm going for tiny groups in a 70 sec 10rnd rapid, if that logic makes any sense.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by Wm.Traynor » 18 Aug 2019, 5:06 pm

zhuk,
I you need a scope sight, then you have my Deepest Sympathy. That is, most of my experience has been with Leupolds and they have all been failures in one way or another; one of them, straight out of the box. The only good thing about them is the warranty, which mine have needed numerous times. In addition, if you have to claim, your scope can go to NIOA in Qld.
To sum up, you pays your money and you takes your chances unless you get a Swarovski, which is as dear as poison.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by zhuk » 18 Aug 2019, 5:12 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:zhuk,
I you need a scope sight, then you have my Deepest Sympathy. That is, most of my experience has been with Leupolds and they have all been failures in one way or another; one of them, straight out of the box. The only good thing about them is the warranty, which mine have needed numerous times. In addition, if you have to claim, your scope can go to NIOA in Qld.
To sum up, you pays your money and you takes your chances unless you get a Swarovski, which is as dear as poison.



Yep, understood Traynor. As with everything you get what you pay for, I understand...unfortunate that I have to be in this position physically, but I am hoping to make the best of it. Maybe I should crack the lottery for a Swarovski lol
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Aug 2019, 7:21 pm

You can get dud anything’s these days...it’s either zeiss Or swarkovski they only have a 10 year conditional warranty where as some other top brands have unconditional lifetime...

Personally, if I were in your position and 500m plus was on the cards for target shooting - I’d be looking for a second hand Leupold vx3I in 6.5 - 20.

The only real down side is the 6.5 min which makes target acquisition inside 50m a little challenging but it’s a minor handicap.
Last edited by TassieTiger on 28 Aug 2019, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by Bill » 19 Aug 2019, 5:48 am

Sightron S Tac 3-16x42 duplex you can get locally for 625, I just put 1 on Howa for short range target work and love the ease of use and clarity
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by tophet1 » 19 Aug 2019, 6:52 am

No knowledge on the Monarch. If it is the .223 calibre specific model you will still have to test fall of shot as the reticles are only an approximation.
Do you wear glasses ? This may affect what features you need on a scope to adjust for eyesight.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by zhuk » 19 Aug 2019, 7:48 am

TassieTiger wrote:You can get did anything’s these days...it’s either zeiss Or swarkovski they only have a 10 year conditional warranty where as some other top brands have unconditional lifetime...

Personally, if I were in your position and 500m plus was on the cards for target shooting - I’d be looking for a second hand Leupold vx3I in 6.5 - 20.

The only real down side is the 6.5 min which makes target acquisition inside 50m a little challenging but it’s a minor handicap.



Allegedly the Monarch has a lifetime warranty, for what it's worth. Thanks for the Leupy suggestion; it's rare that we go out that far (usual comps run from 100-300m) but on the rare occasion 500 and even rare 600/700/800 when my club sits in with the F class boys. Always entertaining to see one of the seasoned old blokes who've been shooting Enfields since the 60s get V-bulls at those distances up against target rifles on sleds lol

But yeah, most often we are in the 100-300m range.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by zhuk » 19 Aug 2019, 8:31 am

Bill wrote:Sightron S Tac 3-16x42 duplex you can get locally for 625, I just put 1 on Howa for short range target work and love the ease of use and clarity



Thanks very much for the heads-up on the Sightron, Bill...interesting. Looks good for the money plus Safari have them in stock so I could go and have a recce. Appreciate the suggestion.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by bigrich » 19 Aug 2019, 8:49 am

Wm.Traynor wrote:zhuk,
I you need a scope sight, then you have my Deepest Sympathy. That is, most of my experience has been with Leupolds and they have all been failures in one way or another; one of them, straight out of the box. The only good thing about them is the warranty, which mine have needed numerous times. In addition, if you have to claim, your scope can go to NIOA in Qld.
To sum up, you pays your money and you takes your chances unless you get a Swarovski, which is as dear as poison.


That’s very surprising about your bad run with leupold scopes mate . I run loops on everything I own and they’ve always been fantastic. As far as budget scopes go , the bushnel trophy and trophy extreme with the 30 mm tube are very impressive for the money :thumbsup:
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by zhuk » 19 Aug 2019, 8:55 am

tophet1 wrote:No knowledge on the Monarch. If it is the .223 calibre specific model you will still have to test fall of shot as the reticles are only an approximation.
Do you wear glasses ? This may affect what features you need on a scope to adjust for eyesight.


Yep the 233 model. Though apparently designed for the AR using 55gr but I'd be looking at the 1 in 8 Tikka so that would likely be a with heavier pill.

Point taken on the glasses...I've had to start using them for handgun shooting but of course open sighted milsurps have still been fine unaided. Pretty sure that a scoped rifle would not require me to use glasses, but for future reference that's a factor to consider.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by Wm.Traynor » 19 Aug 2019, 12:04 pm

bigrich wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:zhuk,
I you need a scope sight, then you have my Deepest Sympathy. That is, most of my experience has been with Leupolds and they have all been failures in one way or another; one of them, straight out of the box. The only good thing about them is the warranty, which mine have needed numerous times. In addition, if you have to claim, your scope can go to NIOA in Qld.
To sum up, you pays your money and you takes your chances unless you get a Swarovski, which is as dear as poison.


That’s very surprising about your bad run with leupold scopes mate . I run loops on everything I own and they’ve always been fantastic. As far as budget scopes go , the bushnel trophy and trophy extreme with the 30 mm tube are very impressive for the money :thumbsup:


I'm well aware that I am the only person in the known Universe to have trouble with the Big L :crazy: and recall a story about a Top F Class shooter who takes/took a spare, zeroed scope to the mound with him, in case the one on his rifle went haywire. No idea about brands but I took it as Gospel. Having said that, it is all too easy for me to accept, given my experience.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by zhuk » 19 Aug 2019, 7:37 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:
bigrich wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:zhuk,
I you need a scope sight, then you have my Deepest Sympathy. That is, most of my experience has been with Leupolds and they have all been failures in one way or another; one of them, straight out of the box. The only good thing about them is the warranty, which mine have needed numerous times. In addition, if you have to claim, your scope can go to NIOA in Qld.
To sum up, you pays your money and you takes your chances unless you get a Swarovski, which is as dear as poison.


That’s very surprising about your bad run with leupold scopes mate . I run loops on everything I own and they’ve always been fantastic. As far as budget scopes go , the bushnel trophy and trophy extreme with the 30 mm tube are very impressive for the money :thumbsup:


I'm well aware that I am the only person in the known Universe to have trouble with the Big L :crazy: and recall a story about a Top F Class shooter who takes/took a spare, zeroed scope to the mound with him, in case the one on his rifle went haywire. No idea about brands but I took it as Gospel. Having said that, it is all too easy for me to accept, given my experience.



Damn, that's some forward planning...then again, F class, makes sense heh

My backup would be a Mosin Nagant :P lol
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by mickb » 20 Aug 2019, 8:21 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:[

I'm well aware that I am the only person in the known Universe to have trouble with the Big L :crazy:


I doubt you are the only person in the universe to have problems with a leupold mate. However probably the only bloke I have heard who had problems with every one he bought. Not to mention you said most of your experience is Leupold....so you had some brand loyalty despite continual fails :wtf:
Some idea of the numbers involved might add some clarity though What are we talking, 2? 9?
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by Wm.Traynor » 21 Aug 2019, 11:32 am

mickb wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:[

I'm well aware that I am the only person in the known Universe to have trouble with the Big L :crazy:


I doubt you are the only person in the universe to have problems with a leupold mate. However probably the only bloke I have heard who had problems with every one he bought. Not to mention you said most of your experience is Leupold....so you had some brand loyalty despite continual fails :wtf:
Some idea of the numbers involved might add some clarity though What are we talking, 2? 9?


First Leupold was a 6.5-20X40 EFL This was a fullbore scope and only lasted a couple of months before it had to go back to the US to have the adjustment mechanism fixed. Drove me crazy. I had no idea about that sort of problem in those days. Cost me a lot of money. Got it fixed after the second breakdown (its not mine :D ) and sold it cheaply.
No.2 A 1.5-5X20. Has been back to NIOA a couple of times.
No.3 A 2-7X28 A rimfire scope Would not focus out of the box.

My second fullbore scope was a Weaver T36. Its adjustment went haywire just like No.1. The shop sent back a replacement.
No.3 fullbore scope was a Lynx, bought while waiting on the Weaver. I think the coating on the objective lens began to separate. It was replaced and I flogged it.
I still have my Swaro :D
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by mickb » 21 Aug 2019, 8:01 pm

5 of your 6 scopes have failed, some with multiple problems apiece? I'm calling unit abuse here. I thought I was rough on gear, what are you using them as hammers? :D

For the OP's benefit, seriously, if these brands failed at 80% rate, the companies wouldn't be in business, warranty or no warranty.
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Re: Another bloody scope question AKA first scope in 9 years

Post by Bender » 27 Aug 2019, 10:37 am

zhuk wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:You can get did anything’s these days...it’s either zeiss Or swarkovski they only have a 10 year conditional warranty where as some other top brands have unconditional lifetime...

Personally, if I were in your position and 500m plus was on the cards for target shooting - I’d be looking for a second hand Leupold vx3I in 6.5 - 20.

The only real down side is the 6.5 min which makes target acquisition inside 50m a little challenging but it’s a minor handicap.



Allegedly the Monarch has a lifetime warranty, for what it's worth. Thanks for the Leupy suggestion; it's rare that we go out that far (usual comps run from 100-300m) but on the rare occasion 500 and even rare 600/700/800 when my club sits in with the F class boys. Always entertaining to see one of the seasoned old blokes who've been shooting Enfields since the 60s get V-bulls at those distances up against target rifles on sleds lol

But yeah, most often we are in the 100-300m range.


I would check the lifetime warranty part. I dont believe this to be the case in Australia with Nikon. It maybe true for usa and canada residence but I bought a Nikon and have had warranty issues, I assumed from the reading on the internet their warranty would be like the bushnell, vortex, leupold etc... basically its covered no matter what warranty... this was not the case for nikon here in Australia and I have been messed around with a warranty issue. While the glass and scope was good for the price I would never buy one again because of the warranty issue. I would stick to one of the 3 brands mentioned above.
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