Is it just me or are todays offerings disappointing.

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Is it just me or are todays offerings disappointing.

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 06 Oct 2019, 8:22 pm

Just a little rant recently purchased a new rifle with the intent of chasing deer once the weather gives us a little rain. Rifle sako roughteck pro 7mm rem mag shot around a inch whilst running in the barrel not a problem in the world.

Settle on a load that shows promise well under the inch loaded up a few more just to determine that the group i shot last week wasn't a fluke.

Anyhow go to shoot the rifle and notice the scope has 3 black flakes on the objective lense at first i thought it was on the outside of the lense so I ignored it got home pulled out the scope cleaning kit and turns out its inside the tube.

I paid good money for the scope roughly the same price as the rifle with the intent of avoiding such issues and whilst its covered under warranty. Im sadly left with a sour taste in my mouth. Is it just me or does the quality of todays products seem to have just gone out of the window.
Sako Varmint 243,Marlin 917, Lithgow La101 .22 , 1917 BSA 303 (ted), Finnish Vkt 1944 M39,T3X Super Varmint 223, Marlin 1895 SBL 45-70 Howa 1500 308, BSA CF2 222, 1911 9mm, Adler 12G, Sako 7mm rem Mag,Ruger m77 mk1 22-250AI, Rem 700 17 Rem, BSA No 5 303
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Post by DownunderDutchman » 06 Oct 2019, 8:38 pm

The days of workmanship pride is gone, it's a throw away society these days. I buy most of my scopes from China, cheap and yet to see one fail. I used to be a brand ho but over paying top dollar for it to be under par and cheap China made scopes are as good. I bought a 3x9- 40 scope a while back as it had great reviews, it is the clearest glass I have ever used, is under $100, has taken many rounds on my H&R 30-30 and is still going, I was that impressed with it and got another one for my Savage American 22M. Most of my rifles are set up as scout rifles and all the scopes used are from China, most are rim fire but the same is used on my Savage Scout 308 and its seen many rounds, great glass and still going strong, and again they are under $100.
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Post by sungazer » 06 Oct 2019, 8:46 pm

I agree there are lot of lower and low quality things being sold even the so called quality name brands other than there premium offering there are less quality items being sold.

A lot of it is the consumers fault. The consumer is believing the marketing for instance its not plastic but an all weather hard wearing hi tech material. Thin metal is to used to lower the weight a feature marketed as offering a lower weight.

For every corner cut on quality it is being marketed as a good feature.

I dont believe a word of it. I ordered a Sako 85 rifle and while it is ok I was a bit disappointed the wood was not a stunning feature wood which for the price I was expecting. It shoots well but so does my Howa and with about $2000 difference. Hard to find those $ in difference.
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Post by Blr243 » 06 Oct 2019, 8:55 pm

Even though warranty comes to the rescue it’s still annoying because of the time, travel and wait and re sighting
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Post by DownunderDutchman » 06 Oct 2019, 9:02 pm

I don't think I would be lining up to buy a Chinese rifle, but Howa can do as good as any of the over priced rifles on the market. It's a bit like cars, you used to get what you paid for, but not these days, cheaper cars/brands have caught up, and I kinda think it is the same with most other stuff. I own a few Savage rifles and can't fault them, now my shots are no more than 100m and used for bush work not bench stuff. I even own a rare Savage model 25 pump 22LR and is nearly 100 years old, and shoots as well if not better than my other new rimfire rifles, same for my Winchester 94/22m, it's getting close to 40 years of age, solid as a rock and will last a lifetime. Sako's are nice but to pricey for me and would hate taking them bush and knock them around.
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Post by Wm.Traynor » 07 Oct 2019, 11:01 am

I had a scope do pretty much that exact same thing, AZZA. Wasn't as dear as a Sako. Under $1000 and the dealer replaced it but I flogged it without trying it.
Boy am I :mrgreen: of DownunderDutchman :(
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Post by bigfellascott » 07 Oct 2019, 11:21 am

What brand Scope?
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Post by DownunderDutchman » 07 Oct 2019, 11:24 am

Wm.Traynor wrote:I had a scope do pretty much that exact same thing, AZZA. Wasn't as dear as a Sako. Under $1000 and the dealer replaced it but I flogged it without trying it.
Boy am I :mrgreen: of DownunderDutchman :(
:mrgreen: ? :( ?
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Post by JSS » 07 Oct 2019, 12:43 pm

I had the same on a mid range Leupold ($1000+), i took it in to my lgs who sent it back under lifetime warranty, took about 2 weeks. Wasn't an issue really. No matter how good a brand is sometimes sh!t happens.
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Post by bigrich » 07 Oct 2019, 1:22 pm

DownunderDutchman wrote:I don't think I would be lining up to buy a Chinese rifle, but Howa can do as good as any of the over priced rifles on the market. It's a bit like cars, you used to get what you paid for, but not these days, cheaper cars/brands have caught up, and I kinda think it is the same with most other stuff. I own a few Savage rifles and can't fault them, now my shots are no more than 100m and used for bush work not bench stuff. I even own a rare Savage model 25 pump 22LR and is nearly 100 years old, and shoots as well if not better than my other new rimfire rifles, same for my Winchester 94/22m, it's getting close to 40 years of age, solid as a rock and will last a lifetime. Sako's are nice but to pricey for me and would hate taking them bush and knock them around.


my angle on all this is to buy a older solid rifle (any push feed winchester 70 made in the mid 70's to mid 80's is well built with a good trigger ) and rebarrel . no doubt it costs more than a howa , but i like the old school build qaulity . no plastic , all steel. and as DD says above , will last a lifetime . my 1903 mauser is slicker and smoother in the action than some modern rifles i've owned too . 116 years old and still working fantastic :P i like my leupold scopes too. if there's a issue with one, it's fixed or replaced with a brand new one. ya don't get warranty's like that much these days . trying to buy qaulity keeps my OCD in check too :lol:

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Post by Wm.Traynor » 07 Oct 2019, 1:36 pm

bigfellascott wrote:What brand Scope?


It was a Lynx, about 20X, I think for a range rifle..
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Post by Wm.Traynor » 07 Oct 2019, 1:38 pm

DownunderDutchman wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:I had a scope do pretty much that exact same thing, AZZA. Wasn't as dear as a Sako. Under $1000 and the dealer replaced it but I flogged it without trying it.
Boy am I :mrgreen: of DownunderDutchman :(
:mrgreen: ? :( ?

I'm jealous of you mate because I have spent a Lot of money on one particular brand that is very well known and all of them have had to be returned.
Would you mind telling us what your el cheapo brand is? :)
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Post by DownunderDutchman » 07 Oct 2019, 2:04 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:
DownunderDutchman wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:I had a scope do pretty much that exact same thing, AZZA. Wasn't as dear as a Sako. Under $1000 and the dealer replaced it but I flogged it without trying it.
Boy am I :mrgreen: of DownunderDutchman :(
:mrgreen: ? :( ?

I'm jealous of you mate because I have spent a Lot of money on one particular brand that is very well known and all of them have had to be returned.
Would you mind telling us what your el cheapo brand is? :)


Extremely basic scope, but the glass is as clear as any Leupold I have tried/seen at the gunshop, I got both around $60 each delivered, one is on my single shot 30-30 the other on one of my many rifles in 22m, I take my guns camping/bush so stuff gets wet and gets knocked around, both are still as clear the day I got them, never lost zero, caps are not bad. Really for the money it makes high end scopes laughable. Now I never go to a range as I do that when I punch paper in the bush, and shots are really never past 100m due to heavy bush. Will it stay together with 338 ammo or the likes? Not sure as the hottest I use is probably the Russian tail wad slugs in 12G, my scout rifle uses a scout scope, next in line power wise is my 44m but again uses a scout scope, so the hottest load I used the scope on is in 30-30 hand loaded hot Leverevolution 160g, and has no probs. The dials are not bad for the money you pay for it. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Visionking- ... 3671351488? or https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?tr ... aqckT#rwid
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Post by Wm.Traynor » 07 Oct 2019, 3:56 pm

Thank you DD :D :thumbsup:
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Post by TassieTiger » 07 Oct 2019, 4:06 pm

Some of those vision kings jump in price...this 1-10 is nearly $500. Strange to see that variance...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Visionking- ... 0935.m2460
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Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 07 Oct 2019, 4:19 pm

JSS wrote:I had the same on a mid range Leupold ($1000+), i took it in to my lgs who sent it back under lifetime warranty, took about 2 weeks. Wasn't an issue really. No matter how good a brand is sometimes sh!t happens.


Same brand as mine
Sako Varmint 243,Marlin 917, Lithgow La101 .22 , 1917 BSA 303 (ted), Finnish Vkt 1944 M39,T3X Super Varmint 223, Marlin 1895 SBL 45-70 Howa 1500 308, BSA CF2 222, 1911 9mm, Adler 12G, Sako 7mm rem Mag,Ruger m77 mk1 22-250AI, Rem 700 17 Rem, BSA No 5 303
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Post by JSS » 07 Oct 2019, 4:30 pm

AZZA'S HJ47 wrote:
JSS wrote:I had the same on a mid range Leupold ($1000+), i took it in to my lgs who sent it back under lifetime warranty, took about 2 weeks. Wasn't an issue really. No matter how good a brand is sometimes sh!t happens.


Same brand as mine


I know it's a pain as you have to take it in & pick it up, then re sight it in, but don't stress too much they'll sort it out or replace it, their warranty is excellent. Mine was apparently tiny drops of some sort of grease used in assembly which just showed up one day about 2 years after i bought it, it's sounds like yours is the same issue.
Looks like someone on the production line might be a bit heavy handed with the old grease gun :lol:
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Post by solarpak » 07 Oct 2019, 5:06 pm

I suppose it can happen with anything that rolls off a production line.
Scopes which these days have a replacement warranty in the event of failure - even accidental - are the once to go for. I can name a few such as Leupold, Burris, Steiner, Bushnell .....but the warranty may be model specific so you would have to check before buying.
Needless to say i have owned some very expensive scopes in the past but the only Euro glass i now have is a older Zeiss Duralyt 2-8x42. All my other rifles run the Chinese made Hawke scopes. These are made to extremely high quality standards and are excellent. The higher spec Endurance and Frontier models are as good as you can get and actually the Frontiers close to the $1000 mark. I use the Vantage models and a few of the Endurance models and cant fault them - excellent glass and havent let me down . Their warranty is great - any problems and the Australian distributor Guy at The Scope Store will always look after you.

But any reputable make and model with dealer back-up should serve you well and get you out of trouble if you run into any with the optic.

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Post by SCJ429 » 07 Oct 2019, 6:21 pm

DownunderDutchman wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:
DownunderDutchman wrote:[quo? :)

Will it stay together with 338 ammo or the likes? Not sure as the hottest I use is probably the Russian tail wad slugs in 12G, my scout rifle uses a scout scope, next in line power wise is my 44m but again uses a scout scope, so the hottest load I used the scope on is in 30-30 hand loaded hot Leverevolution 160g, and has no probs. The dials are not bad for the money you pay for it. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Visionking- ... 3671351488? or https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?tr ... aqckT#rwid


Hey Dutch, I am a civic minded citizen and to that end I would be happy to conduct destructive testing of your Vision King scope for you by bolting it to a big bore. I will even send you back the remain of the scope along with my report. :D

Have you used any of their scopes with more magnification and target turrets?
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Post by DownunderDutchman » 07 Oct 2019, 6:59 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
DownunderDutchman wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:
DownunderDutchman wrote:[quo? :)

Will it stay together with 338 ammo or the likes? Not sure as the hottest I use is probably the Russian tail wad slugs in 12G, my scout rifle uses a scout scope, next in line power wise is my 44m but again uses a scout scope, so the hottest load I used the scope on is in 30-30 hand loaded hot Leverevolution 160g, and has no probs. The dials are not bad for the money you pay for it. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Visionking- ... 3671351488? or https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?tr ... aqckT#rwid


Hey Dutch, I am a civic minded citizen and to that end I would be happy to conduct destructive testing of your Vision King scope for you by bolting it to a big bore. I will even send you back the remain of the scope along with my report. :D

Have you used any of their scopes with more magnification and target turrets?
Hey thx for the kind offer! If I really wanted to see if it holds up I would put it on my XM12, load a few of my Russian tailwad handloaded slugs and see what would happen, although I would not be surprised if it would not break as I have used some no name cheap ass China made throw away can't be legit as it has no brand name and high $$$ to match red dots on many of my shotguns, and never had one fail, now maybe put it on my HW97 and let that massive spring try and do something to it!

But seriously, I laugh my ass off at those that spent so much money on glass, its like paying over $1000 basketball shoes made in a sweatshop in some 3rd world nation, all cause it has that ''name'' on it, this cheapo scope caught my eye over a year ago due to it having some OK reviews, I won the first one in an action by using a sniping Ebay tool, paid $55 for it, and it is still going today after seeing hundreds of 30-30. I can afford high end gear and do at times buy them, but for those on a budget and want super clear glass, this scope wins it hands down, if it had a 30mm tube than damn I would marry it!
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Post by SCJ429 » 07 Oct 2019, 7:24 pm

The only thing I have from China is a laser range finder and it works really well. A friends Lieca agrees with it. I have been surprised by the performance. I am guessing if you wanted to see what a 20 or 30x magnification was like to use you could spend $250 and take the chance.
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Post by DownunderDutchman » 07 Oct 2019, 7:52 pm

What some still don't seem to get, so many products are made in China for companies that sell it to us round eyes with a huge markup under the guise 'its top notch'' due to the labeling and product brainwashing. Even some high end rifle scope companies tender their scopes out to be made my the cheapest bidder in China, some will just say under the product information ''proudly assembled in the US of A'' and so many jump up and down when you point out these facts or show them something labeled ''made in China'' as they just don't want to lift that veil of ignorance, but hey it's their hard earned cash. Haye to say it, but the Chinese got really good at making all kinds of products that have killed of many jobs around the globe due to high wages vs their buck 50 a hour wage, but as a consumer if you are willing to try/test these cheaper versions you might be surprised how good they can be or are. The days of high standards and workmanship in the western nations is all but dead. I am a dual trady from way back, was shown the old fashion way of doing your trade, and have seen the fu#k up gen that is out there now pretending to be tradesman as well.
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Post by SCJ429 » 07 Oct 2019, 10:00 pm

As long as your expectation is not that you are going to get something of the quality of Schmidt and Bender for your $300. In your case if you have a failure and there is no warrenty then you have only lost less than $100.
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Post by JSS » 08 Oct 2019, 7:30 am

That's right SC, and Dutchman don't forget there are many levels of quality coming out of any country including China. If you think that just because something of good quality is produced in a country that everything that comes from that country is the same quality you're kidding yourself.
Many companies have manufacturing in China under their own strict levels of quality control, there are also plenty of cheap nasty production lines that just mass produce absolute crap just like in every other country.

While there's nothing wrong with buying cheap stuff if that's what you want. I find it hilarious how those who buy the cheap stuff are always trying to justify their choices and put s**t on those who choose to spend more money and call them suckers.
Not always, but more often than not you get what you pay for. If that wasn't the case we'd all be walking around in dunlop volleys and driving Mahindras and Tatas.
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Post by bigrich » 08 Oct 2019, 7:52 am

JSS wrote:That's right SC, and Dutchman don't forget there are many levels of quality coming out of any country including China. If you think that just because something of good quality is produced in a country that everything that comes from that country is the same quality you're kidding yourself.
Many companies have manufacturing in China under their own strict levels of quality control, there are also plenty of cheap nasty production lines that just mass produce absolute crap just like in every other country.

While there's nothing wrong with buying cheap stuff if that's what you want. I find it hilarious how those who buy the cheap stuff are always trying to justify their choices and put s**t on those who choose to spend more money and call them suckers.
Not always, but more often than not you get what you pay for. If that wasn't the case we'd all be walking around in dunlop volleys and driving Mahindras and Tatas.


Your on the mark for me JSS , ya pretty well summed up my view. There is a lot of name brand stuff made in China, but there are different levels of quality control too . This shooting game has come a long way since I was a kid, most people had sporterized milsurps and open/peep sights or a fixed power scope back when. Spoiled for choice now . :P
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Post by DownunderDutchman » 08 Oct 2019, 8:48 am

JSS wrote:That's right SC, and Dutchman don't forget there are many levels of quality coming out of any country including China. If you think that just because something of good quality is produced in a country that everything that comes from that country is the same quality you're kidding yourself.
Many companies have manufacturing in China under their own strict levels of quality control, there are also plenty of cheap nasty production lines that just mass produce absolute crap just like in every other country.

While there's nothing wrong with buying cheap stuff if that's what you want. I find it hilarious how those who buy the cheap stuff are always trying to justify their choices and put s**t on those who choose to spend more money and call them suckers.
Not always, but more often than not you get what you pay for. If that wasn't the case we'd all be walking around in dunlop volleys and driving Mahindras and Tatas.


Hey I am all for quality top gear and used to believe you get what you pay for, but we live in a time of ripp off to gain as much as you can. But the cheap scope is a great for the money, sure lots of are junk, but I bought 2 off them and hell I am a fussy Dutchman at that, for those in the market for a cheap as chips scope or on a tight budget, it is great value.
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Post by sungazer » 08 Oct 2019, 9:55 am

That second one that Tassie pointed out though at $500 Aus is a really bad value investment in scopes. Just looking at the specs the adjustments ar 1/2 MOA For just a little more you could be getting a Bushnell or an Athalon while cheaper it is still a proven brand to offer reasonable performance against price.
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Post by razor222 » 08 Oct 2019, 9:04 pm

Really interesting thread. In the market for a scope for target shooting on a 22. Probably overkill but I'm tempted to try out their 10-40x56 scope. For $276 what can go wrong :lol:
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Post by Sergeant Hartman » 09 Oct 2019, 7:00 am

Lol.... just do it

I'd it's good you be rich... start upa business to import it. Call it razr vision brand and make your millions
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Post by razor222 » 09 Oct 2019, 8:02 am

Ziad wrote:Lol.... just do it

I'd it's good you be rich... start upa business to import it. Call it razr vision brand and make your millions


I think ur onto something there! Haha. Always wanted my own import/export biz
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