Thermal vs Night Vision

[JimTom]

What would be the minimum specs of a thermal
Scope that you think would be acceptable for the hunting you do?

Do you think either the Pulsar XM38 or the ATN Thor 4 are acceptable?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6arVVGFti44

[Ferrisweil]

Either of those will be more than fine. For me, the whole point of thermal, is that it allows you to get closer before taking a shot. Depends how you hunt/shoot I spose. If you just sit on a dam or a paddock and scan all night then having a thermal scope as your first thermal purchase is great.
We move around a LOT so my first purchase was a monocle. Meant I don’t have to hold a rifle up to my eyes all night scanning. Too much weight. For years we scanned with monocle and then swapped to a rifle mounted torch. Lucky to now be all thermal.
So if you’re looking at either of those scopes and a scope works well as your first purchase, either of those will be great.
Have a look at the Night tec ms42 as well. Just came out and seems a great bit of kit as well

[JimTom]

Thanks mate, will check out the ms42.
My intended use for thermal is as you have eluded to, sitting on a dam, or dead pit and ambushing our porcine friends, and dogs. So distances of around a couple of hundred meters at the absolute most. Prob look at putting it on a 6.5mm at this stage. In saying that I have been thinking of putting it on the .300AAC for the close range stuff. Have recently developed a subsonic load for it too. Thinking a getting a hand held as well for the reasons you stated, will just use scope stationary in the interim and handheld later when I get used to thermal and start moving around a bit more.

[Ferrisweil]

A mate of mine use a 300 with subsonics and a can (he’s licensed to do so) and it truly does sound like in the movies. It’s stupidly quiet and great on pigs.
If you’re sitting on dams mate, a scope will be great. Once you hook into thermal, you’ll wonder how you ever got by with a torch. Every property I shoot on, I’ve taken the owners out with us at night and they are blown away by how many more you will see. Where we shoot, many of the local farmers have now heard about “the blokes using thermal” and its even got us onto a lot more properties. Our numbers have skyrocketed and the owners couldn’t be happier. We record a lot of the mobs we find and can even send the farmer a video the next day of us blasting into them..... Very cool and works a treat (spreads the word) when they show the neighbors what’s happening on their block.

[JimTom]

Nice one mate. Can’t wait to finally get one and start using it. I checked out the ms42 mate and it looks quite good. I do probably prefer the above mentioned items as I prefer the more conventional look. Flawed logic I know, should never choose some based on asthetics.

[Ferrisweil]

If your spending the coin mate, it should look exactly how you want.
Just a point of interest as I use/have used all three.

The Trail LRF is the biggest and therefore the heaviest but has awesome battery life and the range finder is very handy

Thermion is more a conventional scope shape but battery life ain’t so good. You can always have spare batteries. They’re easy enough to change.

I prefer the Trail because the eye relief on it seems to be better. If it’s going on a larger calibre, I’d get a Trail, if it’s going on say a 243, id prolly take the Thermion. The palette choices on the Thermion are cool but a bit novelty as u tend to only use hot black/white

The night-tech impressed me because of its size. Easily the smallest of the batch and if I was free shooting and weight was an issue, it would be a doozy. Similar definition and clarity to the Trail/Thermion XP at low magnification but gets a little pixilated once you stretch its legs. (Same as the Pulsar and ATN models you’re looking at)

As for the ATN Mars, a mate of mine just started using it and LOVES it! Keep in mind though, he’s using the top of the line, most expensive model. It seems to be a combo of the Thermion and Trail and would also be a good buy.

[scoot]

How do you find thermal when there are high ambient temps. Ie: not a huge variation between animal body temp and ambient air/ground temp. Is this where a more premium product will "shine" over the cheaper options.

[Ferrisweil]

Yeah, every night I use it, you mess around with the contrast, brightness and even the palettes sometimes to get the best settings for the temps etc.
It takes a bit but a lot of first time users get caught out on things like ant hills and tree stumps, or even large boulders as you can tend to lose a bit of distance perspective using thermal. Having said that, as soon as you see an animal, it’s ridiculously obvious.
The only time thermal struggles that I’ve found is during fog and mist. Bloody useless at that point

[Blr243]

Occasionally I find myself useing the thermal in daylight , And sometimes if a pile of logs is mostly not in direct sunlight due to tree cover there can be a break in the tree cover that allows the sun to hit one particular log and heat it up. So it looks hot like a pig amongst the logs. In this situation I drop my thermal binos and have a peek thru a small set of normal binos ....if it shows black through my normal binos it’s a pig to shoot but if it looks white like the rest of the weathered logs I know then it’s just a log getting smashed by the sun. I have tried “ rocks mode “ but not really had much success with it. Rocky country just after dark in the warmer months is no fun with thermal binos

[brinny]

Think twicw about buying Pulsars....This issue is starting to be very common....Post off a FB group in the UK....

[Blr243]

Brinny , you seem to be still haveing a ton of trouble with your scopes, Mine is behaving itself. I have actually been speaking to it and I have told it that if it plays up I will tie it to a tree and burn it alive ..so I guess it’s too scared to run amok

[brinny]

Brinny , you seem to be still haveing a ton of trouble with your scopes, Mine is behaving itself. I have actually been speaking to it and I have told it that if it plays up I will tie it to a tree and burn it alive ..so I guess it’s too scared to run amok

Yes mate....Maybe i should have tried that method....Might have saved me a heap of dramas....
The amount of times i threatened to wrap the POS around a fence post didnt work for me though....
I have had 4 Pulsar thermals and all 4 have failed....
The 3 XQ50s i have had have all had POI issues....Mostly shooting 3 inches to the right at 100m....
Most of the foxes i shoot are out to 200m+....so thats 6 inches out at that distance...
I shoot around 3-400 foxes a year and have been using thermals for the last 3 years....
So not exactly new to it....
I cant tell you how dissapointed i was to be having these problems....You sometimes doubt yourself when taking shots and missing....
But the proof is at the range next day when you fire a shot at your target and its 3 inches from where it was the day before....and then putting a group in the same place....
Rezero only to find it doing the same thing, maybe a day or a week later....Happened in half an hour to me one day....
We all pull shots and miss from time to time....
But i cant say that i have ever pulled 5 shots that make a tight group the size of a 10c piece 3 inches from the bull......and that was happening constantly...When they moved they still shot a tight group....but not where it should have been...
Why its happening is anyones guess....
Everyone that is having these issues with them (and there are a lot) is asking the same questions....and getting no answers from anyone....
Why do they send a new scope as a replacement if the one sent back is fixable???.....There is some extremely frustrated angry hunters out there that is going through the same crap...
I take my fox hunting extremely seriously, and do not need or want inferior gear that i pay a small fortune for that has a mind of its own that lets me down...
Is the new GSCI thermal any better??....TBH, i have no idea....Time will tell....Im not getting too excited about it yet, but early indications look promising...
But i can tell you this....It cant be any worse than what i have had....

[Blr243]

Sorry to hear you are not getting anywhere .....I’m mostly shooting pigs at half the range. But maybe the dingo hunting I will be doing in the next three months dictates that I should be checking on my scope more often to see she is all good. Had not heard of GSCI before so I googled it , and then somethingI read about Canada reminded me I had heard a little bit about them. If anyone here is hesitating to spend 7 or 8 on a pulsar then whatever you do don’t look up the prices of the GSCI It will scare you half to death.

[brinny]

Sorry to hear you are not getting anywhere .....I’m mostly shooting pigs at half the range. But maybe the dingo hunting I will be doing in the next three months dictates that I should be checking on my scope more often to see she is all good. Had not heard of GSCI before so I googled it , and then somethingI read about Canada reminded me I had heard a little bit about them. If anyone here is hesitating to spend 7 or 8 on a pulsar then whatever you do don’t look up the prices of the GSCI It will scare you half to death.

A lot of blokes that hunt pigs are happy to put up with the POI shift as they have such a big target to aim at it doesnt bother them....When the target is considerably smaller and double the range they are shooting...their tune would change...not much room for error there....

Yep....GSCI thermals are dear....but on the flip side of that....I would rather pay a bit more and have something that worked and did what it was supposed to do than to go through all the crap i went through with the others....
I dont go out all night just to scare the foxes away from cockys sheep....
If this one i have works and works well, i will be getting another one for my 17 Rem....

On one particular night i was asked to go to a property near Mansfield Vic.....Farmer was loosing heaps of lambs..
He came out with me and after missing 6 and only gettting one...He thought i was the biggest clown of all times and quickly showed me the gate and told dont come back....
Checking the scope next day, found it was shooting 3 inches out to the right....
That was the last straw....
Pulsar can stick their scopes where the sun doesnt shine.....

[JimTom]

Hard to make a decision. Just watched a YouTube clip again comparing Pulsar to ATN. The comments following regarding the ATN were not at all positive. I was leaning towards the ATN. Seems there is negative publicity for both. Hmmmm not an easy decision when you’re about to drop circa 5k on a thermal scope. Maybe I should just spend the coin on a new Sako in something I don’t have.

[brinny]

Hard to make a decision. Just watched a YouTube clip again comparing Pulsar to ATN. The comments following regarding the ATN were not at all positive. I was leaning towards the ATN. Seems there is negative publicity for both. Hmmmm not an easy decision when you’re about to drop circa 5k on a thermal scope. Maybe I should just spend the coin on a new Sako in something I don’t have.

Can do a lot worse than buy a new Sako mate....

My XQ50s were going from this at 100m....


To this at 100m......


Could happen at any time....
Sometimes they would shoot spot on for two weeks....then shift...Sometimes would do it in half an hour...
Major pain in the arse....

[JimTom]

Yes mate I can fully appreciate your frustration. Definitely unsatisfactory for an optic of that price and supposed quality.
The comments regarding the ATN suggested that the after sales service was terrible at best, whereas it was supposedly not to bad with Pulsar.

[JimTom]

In saying that mate, it doesn’t sound as if it’s the case for you.

[Blr243]

Brinny those misses in front of the landowner would be very embarrassing. I can see why your not happy. . Settle jimtom, Forget the new sako, While you are saving some dollars u have plenty of time to research and make the right choice. I’ll never forget my first bunch of pigs in a thermal scope in thick cover 20 m away in total darkness Some time over the weekend I’ll put together an exciting tale with a couple of pics of a huge 1130 pm boar that got my adrenaline going so much I was a mess and could not function. It affected me as if I had just received a huge electric shock and my brain was short circuited .... I was standing , with rifle and all I had to do was shoot. But It took everything I had to round up some brain cells , coordinate my body and pull the trigger

[brinny]

In saying that mate, it doesn’t sound as if it’s the case for you.

No...the after sales service from the distributor to me was great....
They were spot on in fact and never hesitated to replace the scopes that i sent back....
The after sales service, or the distributor was not the problem.....the damn scopes were....

[brinny]

[quote="Blr243"]Brinny those misses in front of the landowner would be very embarrassing. I can see why your not happy. .

You have no idea mate....
I pushed hard to get access onto this property and laid claim to having the most up to date technology for the task.....
s**t did i hear about that as he was escorting me to the gate.....
The scope obviously picked that night to do its little POI altering thing.........

[Blr243]

Another bloke I know useing thermal to shoot foxes down your way gets tons of properties to shoot foxes because the landholders are so impressed with the results , Not sure what type he uses

[Ferrisweil]

Mountain pig

[JimTom]

Mate bloody nice hog. Well done, I can definitely see the attraction of thermal.

[Blr243]

Very nice boar Ferris, The grin is indicative of adrenaline and endorphins running riot through your body

[Ferrisweil]

Lol. Thanks mate. Yeah, there was a fair degree of adrenaline still going. The property owner could not believe how many pigs were on his place when we took him out. Another advantage of thermal. The owner and his mates go out (older blokes) and sometime get 1 or 2 with a torch; and then to see the numbers and size of the pigs on his block has astounded him. He’s one happy property owner. So much so, he went and bought a thermal monocle himself. We’re VERY lucky to access to that spot.

[JimTom]

Just doing a bit more research and see that Pard are releasing a Thermal scope. After watching Ozzie review the Pard008 I would be interested in seeing how the thermal goes. Will no doubt be fairly cheap. I think Ozzie eluded to the fact the he was going to review the thermal this year when available.

[Blr243]

I would love another thermal scope for either my shotgun or another rifle but I’m not spending another 7-8 so I will research the pard too

[Blr243]

I just had a look but I could not find a price on them. Because they only have 384 res instead of 640 I hesitated but it won’t matter to me as I can use my hi res binos to locate and identify species, then stalk in and use a low res device at close range eg 150 m or less to shoot ..... it seems to have an impressive detection range but that will still be white blobs. I depend on my pulsar s 640 res when I’m looking at longer ranges it helps me identify necks and tails and triangular shaped bodies so I don’t end up walking along way just to find out my boar is actually a roo

[mchughcb]

Just doing a bit more research and see that Pard are releasing a Thermal scope. After watching Ozzie review the Pard008 I would be interested in seeing how the thermal goes. Will no doubt be fairly cheap. I think Ozzie eluded to the fact the he was going to review the thermal this year when available.

I don't wait for Ozzie Reviews. I do my own reviews.

https://youtu.be/HlSZFWznoE0