So many scopes so little time

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So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 03 Dec 2019, 12:12 pm

Hey fellas

I’ve just bought my first rifle. A Lithgow LA101. My 3 main reasons were, they are accurate they come in lefty and they are Aussie made.
I’m looking to start shooting targets ONLY. I am not into hunting at all.
I’m not really sure on the disciplines I want to follow yet. I guess I’ll just have a crack at any competitions I come across for now and hey I’ll be just happy to shoot the bloody thing. I’ve got another week to wait till my PTA cooling off finishes.
I’m getting antsy :clap:

So scopes....
Why are there so many?!?
Just when I think I’ve found one that will suit what I might want, I find it’s got some crazy reticle or no parallax adjustment or is no longer available or something...

Arrgggghh!!

It’s really doing my head in :crazy:

So good peeps, can I ask for some advise as to which to buy

My wishful requirements are ( I think)

Up to 24 or so zoom
40-50mm objective
Parallax adjustable down to 10-15m
Simple type reticle that isn’t too busy
$1000 max price
Good glass. Fully multi coated
Zeroable exposed turrets (ballistic)

I’m still not decided on ffp or sfp so feel free to give me your fors and againsts on that subject. Remember I want it for paper only.

I’m open to any suggestions

Cheers in advance

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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Dec 2019, 4:10 pm

It is actually very simple, the only scope is Nightforce and the scope for you is the Competition series. The only problem is your budget, so you can keep saving or buy a 32x BR version.

FFP is a waste of time and you don't need a zero stop for target shooting.

If the best shooters in the world can find a Nightforce retical that works for them, you should be able to find a suitable one for you.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by sungazer » 03 Dec 2019, 4:32 pm

I agree with SCJ429 on nearly everything he has said in the above post. My advice would be a Nightforce 8-32 BR or a 42. It wont parallax down to 10m but that is not really an issue. It doesn't have the zero stop. That is where I do differ in opinion it is a nice thing to have even on a target scope especially if you need reading glasses. depending on the distances you shoot and how often you change distance being able to wind back to a stop can be nice if you have forgotten what you were on last and you cant really make out those little lines sometimes easy to be out one full rotation.

SFP is the best way to go when you are shooting known distances even when your not there is always a zoom that you can set to for the correct calibration if really needed. Very rare.

The Competition has it all a great high power scope with zero stop 10 MOA per rotation but comes is second hand at about $2200

The BR is a very good compromise and I doubt you could match it for value with any other scope. Its only con if you were really pushed to find one is weight.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bladeracer » 03 Dec 2019, 5:26 pm

If you can't live without a zero stop, you can tap a screw into the turret and adjust it so it bottoms out at your zero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgxHQtCZLps

You can also put shims under the turret so it bottoms out at your zero.
https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/diy-scope-zero-stop.194017/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4kjNCdkcro

Or use an adjustable mount and zero your scope so it is at the bottom of the turret, this is what I did with my long-range .22LR. After shooting I just wind the turret all the way down again - that's my zero
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 03 Dec 2019, 5:41 pm

SCJ429 wrote:It is actually very simple, the only scope is Nightforce and the scope for you is the Competition series. The only problem is your budget, so you can keep saving or buy a 32x BR version.

FFP is a waste of time and you don't need a zero stop for target shooting.

If the best shooters in the world can find a Nightforce retical that works for them, you should be able to find a suitable one for you.


That's no good to me. As I said $1000max is all I have to start with. I'd love a Nightforce scope but not right now as a beginner.

Can you tell me why ffp is a waste of time? I have spoken to a few target shooters and some like it, some don't. I do know the difference with the two and can see the advantages of both. It seems from what I hear that it's no good for hunting...but I do t hunt. They must make them for a reason. I was going down the silouette line of thinking. It seems a lot of tactical stuff is ffp so that distances can be changed rapidly and still be accurate..... Or am I reading it all wrong?

As for the best shooters in the world, good for them. I'm not there yet but hope to get close someday :drinks:
Last edited by Denno on 03 Dec 2019, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 03 Dec 2019, 5:50 pm

bladeracer wrote:If you can't live without a zero stop, you can tap a screw into the turret and adjust it so it bottoms out at your zero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgxHQtCZLps

You can also put shims under the turret so it bottoms out at your zero.
https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/diy-scope-zero-stop.194017/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4kjNCdkcro

Or use an adjustable mount and zero your scope so it is at the bottom of the turret, this is what I did with my long-range .22LR. After shooting I just wind the turret all the way down again - that's my zero


All great ideas mate but I'm not ready to tinker with that stuff yet.

I have shot in 10m air comps before in my teens (long ago) and do know my way around a rifle but that was with peep sights. Scopes are a different beast with a steep learning curve I'm finding.

I guess the crux of my question is if you had $1000 what would you guys buy for a general multi use, multi comp, all in one scope

Cheers

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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bladeracer » 03 Dec 2019, 6:11 pm

Denno wrote:That's no good to me. As I said $1000max is all I have to start with. I'd love a Nightforce scope but not right now as a beginner.

Can you tell me why ffm is a waste of time? I have spoken to a few target shooters and some like it, some don't. I do know the difference with the two and can see the advantages of both. It seems from what I hear that it's no good for hunting...but I do t hunt. They must make them for a reason. I was going down the silouette line of thinking. It seems a lot of tactical stuff is ffp so that distances can be changed rapidly and still be accurate..... Or am I reading it all wrong?

As for the best shooters in the world, good for them. I'm not there yet but hope to get close someday :drinks:


They make them primarily because people will buy them without even understanding what they're buying.
If you are using the reticle to range targets or want to use the holdover marks, FFP _can_ be useful, otherwise don't waste your dollars on it (you won't be using holdover or ranging). Use a SFP with a very fine reticle. There are scopes with reticles far too fine to be useful in the field, but would be excellent against a background of white paper.

Otherwise try the Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x40 for about $300 or so, a fine reticle (.25MoA) and focuses back to 10m. A quarter-minute reticle covers 7mm of your target at 100m, 70mm at 1000m.
https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7383#p114979

I know some of the Athlons have .14MoA reticles.
https://athlonoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/ATHLON-APLR2-FFP-IR-MOA-Reticle-Manual1.pdf
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Dec 2019, 6:16 pm

The best scope for around $1,000 is the 32x BR Nightforce. You find if you really want something you can save up some more or sell some stuff to fund your purchase.

FFP is so that you can use your retical for ranging at various magnifications. Even if you use the retical for this, you can use the SFP retical for this by knowing the values at commonly used magnifications.

Go to a competition in which you are looking to compete and see what they are using. You seem undecided between a few different deciplines.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bladeracer » 03 Dec 2019, 6:16 pm

Denno wrote:All great ideas mate but I'm not ready to tinker with that stuff yet.

I have shot in 10m air comps before in my teens (long ago) and do know my way around a rifle but that was with peep sights. Scopes are a different beast with a steep learning curve I'm finding.

I guess the crux of my question is if you had $1000 what would you guys buy for a general multi use, multi comp, all in one scope

Cheers

Denno


If I were only going to own one scope I _might_ consider spending $1000 on it. I prefer to own lots of scopes all the same so I want a cheaper option.
If I were going to spend that on a scope for pure target shooting I'd look at Athlon or Vortex.

If you were going to shoot silhouette or any other field competition you might struggle with a very fine reticle, especially if you have to hold off the white due to wind. A neighbour bought Athlons for his rifles and I can't see the reticles at all against grass.

I would suggest you ask the shooters at the club what they're using and have a look through some of them.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 03 Dec 2019, 7:35 pm

SCJ429 wrote:The best scope for around $1,000 is the 32x BR Nightforce. You find if you really want something you can save up some more or sell some stuff to fund your purchase.

FFP is so that you can use your retical for ranging at various magnifications. Even if you use the retical for this, you can use the SFP retical for this by knowing the values at commonly used magnifications.

Go to a competition in which you are looking to compete and see what they are using. You seem undecided between a few different deciplines.


Sooo why is that the best scope for a grand?
Thanks mate but na it's no good to me. It's purely a bench rest scope. It has nothing really that is on my wish list. It's a bench s ope. How would I go shooting silhouette with it, or even just plinking.

And hey don't get me wrong, I'm not so!d on an FFP yet but I'm leaning to it for some reason.
Give me a bit of time and I will check out what everyone is using in comps.
Sorry but I assumed some of you blokes would be just the people I'd see at the comps :thumbsup:

You're right I am undecided on disciplines. I want to try them all. That's why I'm after a scope that can do most things very well. I know there are really expensive scopes but I'm no way near needing or able to afford one of them yet.

I guess I want to take my equipment out of the equation so anything I'm doing wrong is MY fault and so I will have to adjust
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bladeracer » 03 Dec 2019, 7:53 pm

Denno wrote:Sooo why is that the best scope for a grand?
Thanks mate but na it's no good to me. It's purely a bench rest scope. It has nothing really that is on my wish list. It's a bench s ope. How would I go shooting silhouette with it, or even just plinking.

And hey don't get me wrong, I'm not so!d on an FFP yet but I'm leaning to it for some reason.
Give me a bit of time and I will check out what everyone is using in comps.
Sorry but I assumed some of you blokes would be just the people I'd see at the comps :thumbsup:

You're right I am undecided on disciplines. I want to try them all. That's why I'm after a scope that can do most things very well. I know there are really expensive scopes but I'm no way near needing or able to afford one of them yet.

I guess I want to take my equipment out of the equation so anything I'm doing wrong is MY fault and so I will have to adjust


You said you specifically wanted a scope for target shooting, not plinking. I would not get a pure target design for anything except shooting at paper.
Get an AR Optics for $300 and use it to try all the disciplines, by the time you've decided which you prefer you'll also have learned heaps about scopes.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Dec 2019, 7:59 pm

I take a 42x BR scope out hunting and am able to hit stuff with it. I wind it down to 12x and do very well. I can hit the Silhouette Rams at 500 metres using it. You said in your first post you found the choices confusing, make it simple by looking at Nightfore SFP scopes. Thousands of competition shooters cannot all be wrong.

Only my opinion. Good luck with your search.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bladeracer » 03 Dec 2019, 8:06 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I take a 42x BR scope out hunting and am able to hit stuff with it. I wind it down to 12x and do very well. I can hit the Silhouette Rams at 500 metres using it. You said in your first post you found the choices confusing, make it simple by looking at Nightfore SFP scopes. Thousands of competition shooters cannot all be wrong.

Only my opinion. Good luck with your search.


If you can wind it down then it is clearly not a 42-power scope. Did you mean a variable scope when you said 32x?
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bigrich » 03 Dec 2019, 8:06 pm

Denno wrote:
I guess the crux of my question is if you had $1000 what would you guys buy for a general multi use, multi comp, all in one scope

Cheers

Denno



myself for field rifle comps from 25 yds out to 200 yds , on my 222 i use a 4.5-14 x40 leupold VX3 . retails about $960 has all the vision i need for this comp as well as precision shots on grey grasshoppers out to 200

my only other preference in this price range would be a meopta meopro

hope this helps :thumbsup:
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 03 Dec 2019, 8:26 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I take a 42x BR scope out hunting and am able to hit stuff with it. I wind it down to 12x and do very well. I can hit the Silhouette Rams at 500 metres using it. You said in your first post you found the choices confusing, make it simple by looking at Nightfore SFP scopes. Thousands of competition shooters cannot all be wrong.

Only my opinion. Good luck with your search.



Geez mate, do you work for Nightforce or something :lol: :lol:

They're great but not what I want. Like I said in my first post :thumbsup:

Thanks anyway. Happy hunting
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 03 Dec 2019, 8:37 pm

bladeracer wrote:

If I were only going to own one scope I _might_ consider spending $1000 on it. I prefer to own lots of scopes all the same so I want a cheaper option.
If I were going to spend that on a scope for pure target shooting I'd look at Athlon or Vortex.

If you were going to shoot silhouette or any other field competition you might struggle with a very fine reticle, especially if you have to hold off the white due to wind. A neighbour bought Athlons for his rifles and I can't see the reticles at all against grass.

I would suggest you ask the shooters at the club what they're using and have a look through some of them.


I've been looking at a few like

Bushnell nitro 6-24x50. Can get either FFP or SFP for under a grand but don't like the Deploy reticle. It's a little too busy for me. Can get the Multi-x which looks ok but only only comes in SFP

Meopta Meopro Optika6. There's a few different ones that I'm looking at but find myself going round in circles :lol:

I've still got to work out which vortex is which...

Haven't even got as far as athlon yet.....


See, so many bloody scopes :crazy:
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 03 Dec 2019, 8:41 pm

bigrich wrote:

myself for field rifle comps from 25 yds out to 200 yds , on my 222 i use a 4.5-14 x40 leupold VX3 . retails about $960 has all the vision i need for this comp as well as precision shots on grey grasshoppers out to 200

my only other preference in this price range would be a meopta meopro

hope this helps :thumbsup:



Thanks Bigrich.

So far leaning towards the Meopro but will have a look at the leupolds too
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Dec 2019, 8:54 pm

bladeracer wrote:
If you can wind it down then it is clearly not a 42-power scope. Did you mean a variable scope when you said 32x?


Yes, the 32x starts at 8.5x and the 42x starts at 12x.. Not that it matters to the OP as this style of scope is not what he is looking for. I am starting to think your suggestion of the Bushnell AR optics is a better fit for his needs.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bigrich » 03 Dec 2019, 9:11 pm

Denno wrote:

myself for field rifle comps from 25 yds out to 200 yds , on my 222 i use a 4.5-14 x40 leupold VX3 . retails about $960 has all the vision i need for this comp as well as precision shots on grey grasshoppers out to 200

my only other preference in this price range would be a meopta meopro

hope this helps :thumbsup:



Thanks Bigrich.

So far leaning towards the Meopro but will have a look at the leupolds too[/quote]



meopta meostar are REALLY good glass for about $1300 , but i've found with meoptas the eye peice (like a lot of european scopes ) is quite large and doesn't give much clearance for bolt throw sometimes

leupolds are more compact in this regard , and the clarity on a VX3 scope is very good . the other thing about loopys , i could go out tomorrow, buy a second hand loopy, and if it breaks or is faulty i can ship it to a loopy dealer or the factory and they'll fix it or replace it for free . lifetime garuntee on loopys
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Dec 2019, 9:11 pm

[quote="Denno"][.[/quote

Give me a bit of time and I will check out what everyone is using in comps.
Sorry but I assumed some of you blokes would be just the people I'd see at the comps :thumbsup:
/quote]

I am a competition shooter, currently compete in long range benchrest. Previously competed in 3P, smallbore and Metalic Silhouette with a centrefire. If you go along to most competitions you will notice most of the competitors use one brand of scope. There is a reason for this and it is not because they are all employed by the company.

It makes no difference to me what you buy and I was giving you some advice based on my experiences.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bigrich » 03 Dec 2019, 9:20 pm

[quote="SCJ429"

Give me a bit of time and I will check out what everyone is using in comps.
Sorry but I assumed some of you blokes would be just the people I'd see at the comps :thumbsup:
/quote]

I am a competition shooter, currently compete in long range benchrest. Previously competed in 3P, smallbore and Metalic Silhouette with a centrefire. If you go along to most competitions you will notice most of the competitors use one brand of scope. There is a reason for this and it is not because they are all employed by the company.

It makes no difference to me what you buy and I was giving you some advice based on my experiences.[/quote]


i wish they ran 3P at my range . as i understand it , it's a slower version of feild rifle centrefire . the rapid fire part of field rifle wouldn't be good for barrel throats . i'd get more of a chance to use some of my other rifles without worrying about burning them out . you've given me a idea SJC , might have a word to someone about changing the comp to 3P :thumbsup:
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Dec 2019, 9:50 pm

I really enjoyed 3P, I used an Anschutz 1413 back then. I am on the lookout for another Super Match to get back into 3P however my Olympic dreams are now long gone.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by SCJ429 » 03 Dec 2019, 9:51 pm

I really enjoyed 3P, I used an Anschutz 1413 back then. I am on the lookout for another Super Match to get back into 3P however my Olympic dreams are now long gone.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by sungazer » 04 Dec 2019, 6:30 am

Deno you dont know what need. You might think you know what you want. A Nightforce 8-32 just sold on used guns for $850. It is the best scope you will get for $1000. It is SFP. The 8-32 even though you are not hunting is also the scope I use for hunting on my rifles. They are a brilliant scope that will last and last and the is a lifetime transferable warranty.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 04 Dec 2019, 8:03 am

sungazer wrote:Deno you dont know what need. You might think you know what you want. A Nightforce 8-32 just sold on used guns for $850. It is the best scope you will get for $1000. It is SFP. The 8-32 even though you are not hunting is also the scope I use for hunting on my rifles. They are a brilliant scope that will last and last and the is a lifetime transferable warranty.


Yeah I get it’s the scope of choice and if I’d seen that one I probably would have bought it.
And you’re dead right I don’t know what I want. That’s why I’m here asking you blokes.

All good info fellas

Cheers
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bladeracer » 04 Dec 2019, 8:03 am

sungazer wrote:Deno you dont know what need. You might think you know what you want. A Nightforce 8-32 just sold on used guns for $850. It is the best scope you will get for $1000. It is SFP. The 8-32 even though you are not hunting is also the scope I use for hunting on my rifles. They are a brilliant scope that will last and last and the is a lifetime transferable warranty.


I agree, buying a scope before you've determined exactly what you need from it may just result in having to buy a different scope later on.

I would find 8-power to be too much for a hunting rifle, even 6-power is too restricted for finding close targets quickly. 8-32x would be nice on a varmint rifle though, as long as you accept not being able to easily take shots of opportunity on the way in and out of your shooting position. I have a 10-40x I use sometimes for target shooting, but had way too many missed opportunities due to the restricted view, so it doesn't get used for hunting
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by bladeracer » 04 Dec 2019, 9:04 am

Something to keep in mind perhaps for a .22LR, if you want to reach out to longer ranges, you need lots of elevation adjustment, 100-minutes to go from a 100m zero out to 500m, that's 400 clicks on most scopes with quarter-minute clicks. When you get up into very high magnification you tend to lose adjustment range. I'd have to check, but I think my 10-40x50 only has 40MoA compared to the 105MoA of the 4.5-18x40. You can buy very expensive minute-adjustable mounts though that circumvents this.

You'll also have to decide whether you prefer to work with an MoA scope or a MilRad scope. As a carpenter, I'm intimate with degrees, minutes and seconds so I prefer MoA. I can use Millirads but I find them cumbersome.

Minutes are roughly 29mm at 100m, or an inch at 100yds. A minute is simply one-sixtieth of a degree.
Mils are a thousandth of the distance, so 100mm at 100m.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by sungazer » 04 Dec 2019, 10:10 am

Deno if you have a look at the 50m 22LR target you shoot a round of 25 scoring shots, 1 shot on each target the centre is a dot the size of what a ball point pen would leave perhaps a tad bigger but not much if any. There are also sighter targets around the edge..

So you see you have to have a pretty high power scope to see that centre of the target very well. I prefer not to have the dot type reticles but rather the thin lines if you have reasonable eyesight.
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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Denno » 04 Dec 2019, 12:01 pm

bladeracer wrote:Something to keep in mind perhaps for a .22LR, if you want to reach out to longer ranges, you need lots of elevation adjustment, 100-minutes to go from a 100m zero out to 500m, that's 400 clicks on most scopes with quarter-minute clicks. When you get up into very high magnification you tend to lose adjustment range. I'd have to check, but I think my 10-40x50 only has 40MoA compared to the 105MoA of the 4.5-18x40. You can buy very expensive minute-adjustable mounts though that circumvents this.

You'll also have to decide whether you prefer to work with an MoA scope or a MilRad scope. As a carpenter, I'm intimate with degrees, minutes and seconds so I prefer MoA. I can use Millirads but I find them cumbersome.

Minutes are roughly 29mm at 100m, or an inch at 100yds. A minute is simply one-sixtieth of a degree.
Mils are a thousandth of the distance, so 100mm at 100m.


Don’t think I’ll be shooting out that far Bladeracer, at least not for a while.
I guess I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it and lash out on a specialty scope

I’ve sussed out the moa vs mil and I think moa is for me. I just find it easier on the brain to understand.

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Re: So many scopes so little time

Post by Bill » 04 Dec 2019, 12:16 pm

I run the 3-16x42mm Sightron Stac duplex on my 6.5 Grendel and love it for banging groups or gongs out to 400m

I have 4 x Meopros and I had a Meostar R1 recebntly and I rate the Sightron Stac to be a better scope at the range hands down, The new Optika 6 range whiclst a new scope is still runge the same Meopro standard glass

I almost went with the 4-20x50 Stac before I bought the 3-16 as it would have overbalanced my stubby 20inch HB Grendel :lol:

I reckon I will end up with one of these in the next 12months :thumbsup:

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