Fixed power scopes

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 16 Apr 2020, 11:23 pm

Fixed power scopes, magnification and brand recommendations for a hunting rifle out to 500m
Thanks guys
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by No1Mk3 » 17 Apr 2020, 12:56 am

G'day Harrynsw,
I use a 10x Bushnell on a Parker Hale but find the narrow field of view at 100 yards and under to be nuisance. The Kahles 6x is much better, the 4x, regardless of brand gives good field of view at closer ranges but is just a bit weak for my eyes out at 500. So I would suggest you try a 6x, in any of the "name" brands such as Leupold, Kahles, Bushnell, Weaver (original K6, I'm not familiar with the new Weaver) etc. If you think you will seldom shoot close in perhaps even an 8x might do you but you will lose field of view compared to the 6x, Cheers.
PS: My Kahles is the same scope as the ex-Australian Army sniper scope, a ZF69, but I have a Kahles S6 as well which works just as well but without the BDC, Cheers.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by straightshooter » 17 Apr 2020, 7:45 am

To add to what No1Mk3 has commented.
Fixed power scopes are now few and far between if you disregard the dirt cheap Chinese versions.
The advantage of a fixed power scope is 5 lens element groups versus a minimum of 7 for a variable.
This provides an immediate advantage in light transmission and fewer internal parts to rattle loose causing mysterious accuracy problems.
The Germans settled on a 6x42 as their go to hunting scope for good reason. Ditto with the sharply pointed post reticle.
Since more than likely you will be looking at a second hand scope I would suggest you consider German brands in good condition as representing excellent value for money. For example if you compare side by side a Leupold 6x and a Zeiss 6x (or Any other German 6x) you instantly see why there is a price differential, even if the the scope dates from the 50's.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the others are necessarily bad but they are made to a price.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Bugman » 17 Apr 2020, 9:45 am

I have a Schmidt and Bender 6 x 42 Klassik on my .243. It suits my style of hunting. As said before, fixed powers are in limited supply and currently, it would appear
that the higher end market, supply most of these .
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by marksman » 17 Apr 2020, 1:49 pm

l have owned and used the old kahles 7x56 and the old original redfield 12 power, wish l still had them
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Peter988 » 17 Apr 2020, 5:41 pm

Can I ask why fixed power? I had shot with a 6x40 for the last 50 years and only upgraded last year to a 3-12 variable. Initially because of my eyesight but the difference is amazing. Wish I had done it years ago. I might even change the 4x32 on the 22 this year.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by bigpete » 17 Apr 2020, 7:00 pm

Out to 500m,I'd go 6x.
At realistic hunting ranges,for medium to large animals,4x
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 17 Apr 2020, 8:11 pm

Peter988 wrote:Can I ask why fixed power? I had shot with a 6x40 for the last 50 years and only upgraded last year to a 3-12 variable. Initially because of my eyesight but the difference is amazing. Wish I had done it years ago. I might even change the 4x32 on the 22 this year.


Because apparently the clarity is AMAZING, that along with, less parts=less that can go wrong, reduced weight....this video really made me want 1
https://youtu.be/s7C2S1B2vsE
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 17 Apr 2020, 8:12 pm

bigpete wrote:Out to 500m,I'd go 6x.
At realistic hunting ranges,for medium to large animals,4x

And what brands do you run for that kind of range big Pete ?
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Apr 2020, 9:22 pm

Just watched that video. Was great. “Clarity means much more than magnification “ I recently put aN exact same spec Leo vx3 vs a mark 4 and I was swearing the mark 4 wAs incorrectly labeled, the additional clarity making it feel like a 20x vs the actual 14x. But - there is a limit of course, if you look at that YouTube vid - he’s not going to see 50 cal holes in A target let alone the more realistic .3 or .264.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by xcb » 17 Apr 2020, 11:10 pm

This is Mil-Mil version of scope in the video, in 10x:
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-10x42-tact ... l?___SID=U
I bought a 16x version (I like Mil-Mil):
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-16x42-tact ... l?___SID=U
I think the 16x is great in daylight. However for hunting the exit pupil is too small, as you can see in the specs its only 2.6mm for the 16x. I tried holding the scope on a dark night viewing an open paddock, I guess as you expect I couldn't really see anything. I could see some some animals through the scope spotting them with a red LED torch. I expect the 10x with its 4.2mm exit pupil would be a lot better in low light. With the 16x although I can see the animals I think I would prefer a more powerful torch to make up for small exit pupil on the 16x scope.
It focuses down to 10m (which I need as I have it on an air rifle).
I notice though they are all out of stock and on backorder.
I see they also have a 6x, I expect it would be very good in low light for a cheap scope.
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-6x42-tacti ... l?___SID=U
I guess it would be about $640 to import it with the lens caps. If you wanted one you'd have to email the order to them, then they give you the shipping quote, and a paypal invoice (I change the paypal currency to USD as my bank adds fees on top of paypal's fees with paypal's default of paying in AUD at a poor exchange rate) if you want to go ahead:
https://www.swfa.com/exportpolicy
I guess there is effectively no warranty as the shipping costs are high. My scope is working fine.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 18 Apr 2020, 12:07 am

xcb wrote:This is Mil-Mil version of scope in the video, in 10x:
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-10x42-tact ... l?___SID=U
I bought a 16x version (I like Mil-Mil):
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-16x42-tact ... l?___SID=U
I think the 16x is great in daylight. However for hunting the exit pupil is too small, as you can see in the specs its only 2.6mm for the 16x. I tried holding the scope on a dark night viewing an open paddock, I guess as you expect I couldn't really see anything. I could see some some animals through the scope spotting them with a red LED torch. I expect the 10x with its 4.2mm exit pupil would be a lot better in low light. With the 16x although I can see the animals I think I would prefer a more powerful torch to make up for small exit pupil on the 16x scope.
It focuses down to 10m (which I need as I have it on an air rifle).
I notice though they are all out of stock and on backorder.
I see they also have a 6x, I expect it would be very good in low light for a cheap scope.
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-6x42-tacti ... l?___SID=U
I guess it would be about $640 to import it with the lens caps. If you wanted one you'd have to email the order to them, then they give you the shipping quote, and a paypal invoice (I change the paypal currency to USD as my bank adds fees on top of paypal's fees with paypal's default of paying in AUD at a poor exchange rate) if you want to go ahead:
https://www.swfa.com/exportpolicy
I guess there is effectively no warranty as the shipping costs are high. My scope is working fine.


Awesome info, thanks so much
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by xcb » 18 Apr 2020, 12:27 am

Just in case it matters, for some rifles you might want to look in the scope specs at the Eyepiece Length, Eyepiece Diameter and Eye Relief, as these might matter when trying to figure out the required height of the rings for the eyepiece to clear a picatinny rail if the rifle has one and whether you can mount the rings far enough forward. Yeah I know I'm kind of backward worrying about the eyepiece clearing when everyone else is looking at the objective clearance.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 18 Apr 2020, 6:33 am

xcb wrote:Just in case it matters, for some rifles you might want to look in the scope specs at the Eyepiece Length, Eyepiece Diameter and Eye Relief, as these might matter when trying to figure out the required height of the rings for the eyepiece to clear a picatinny rail if the rifle has one and whether you can mount the rings far enough forward. Yeah I know I'm kind of backward worrying about the eyepiece clearing when everyone else is looking at the objective clearance.

More to consider, thanks.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by xcb » 18 Apr 2020, 1:03 pm

This is a great video showing the view through the 10x, 12x, 16x and 20x at distances out to 500m, and near the end it shows the view in low light conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlLYktM0rk
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 18 Apr 2020, 4:58 pm

xcb wrote:This is a great video showing the view through the 10x, 12x, 16x and 20x at distances out to 500m, and near the end it shows the view in low light conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FlLYktM0rk

Great vid, thank you
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by straightshooter » 19 Apr 2020, 8:52 am

xcb
I have 3 of this style "rear parallax adjustment" scopes.
A Sightron 20x, a Lynx 20x and a SWFA 16x.
If forced to rate clarity then the Sightron would be my preference.
There are cosmetic differences but all three look like they came out of the same factory.
Why rear parallax?
Although I haven't investigated the internal mechanics, my presumption is that parallax is adjusted by moving the reticle into precise alignment with the rear focal point.
This compares with repositioning either the erector assembly or the objective lens cell in the case of side parallax or front parallax.
Both these assemblies are comparatively heavy and looseness, with a loss of accuracy, will develop after some use. It is not uncommon for cheaper scopes, that may have been excellent when new, to decline in accuracy after as little as 2000 to 3000 rounds. In addition both these methods introduce optical compromises that, due to a build up of tolerances, may mean the image one sees isn't as perfect as it could be.
Now compare that with moving a reticle that weighs next to nothing being moved into perfect position at the rear focal point.
I have to add though that none of these scopes would beat a 6x as a general purpose hunting scope. A possible exception being for 200 to 400 meter 'varminting'.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by xcb » 19 Apr 2020, 10:14 am

straightshooter wrote:xcb
I have 3 of this style "rear parallax adjustment" scopes.
A Sightron 20x, a Lynx 20x and a SWFA 16x.
If forced to rate clarity then the Sightron would be my preference.
There are cosmetic differences but all three look like they came out of the same factory.
Why rear parallax?
Although I haven't investigated the internal mechanics, my presumption is that parallax is adjusted by moving the reticle into precise alignment with the rear focal point.
This compares with repositioning either the erector assembly or the objective lens cell in the case of side parallax or front parallax.
Both these assemblies are comparatively heavy and looseness, with a loss of accuracy, will develop after some use. It is not uncommon for cheaper scopes, that may have been excellent when new, to decline in accuracy after as little as 2000 to 3000 rounds. In addition both these methods introduce optical compromises that, due to a build up of tolerances, may mean the image one sees isn't as perfect as it could be.
Now compare that with moving a reticle that weighs next to nothing being moved into perfect position at the rear focal point.
I have to add though that none of these scopes would beat a 6x as a general purpose hunting scope. A possible exception being for 200 to 400 meter 'varminting'.

Thanks a lot for these thoughts.
The SWFA 16x is holding up fine so far on the springer air rifle, I have it on a SportsMatch dampa mount which has rubber bushes to dampen some of the vibration.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Am88 » 20 Apr 2020, 9:11 am

I run mainly fixed power scopes, I have a 4x32 Kahles Helia, 6x42 Doctor Klassik, and 8x56 S&B Klassik, 8x40 12X Leupold, 4x32 Weaver K4. My favourite of the lot would be the 6x42 Docter, it is a beautiful scope, but 500m is a fair stretch ay.

I have 2 variable power scopes in my arsenal, I have a VXII 2-7 Leupold on a .22mag, and s 3.5-10 on my .308, I tried running a fixed power on my .308 and as much as I didn't want to change to a variable power, Im glad I did. i shoot things with that from anywhere from 20m to 200m.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 20 Apr 2020, 9:51 am

Am88 wrote:I run mainly fixed power scopes, I have a 4x32 Kahles Helia, 6x42 Doctor Klassik, and 8x56 S&B Klassik, 8x40 12X Leupold, 4x32 Weaver K4. My favourite of the lot would be the 6x42 Docter, it is a beautiful scope, but 500m is a fair stretch ay.

I have 2 variable power scopes in my arsenal, I have a VXII 2-7 Leupold on a .22mag, and s 3.5-10 on my .308, I tried running a fixed power on my .308 and as much as I didn't want to change to a variable power, Im glad I did. i shoot things with that from anywhere from 20m to 200m.


Great insight thanks
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Am88 » 20 Apr 2020, 4:07 pm

Very Welcome, it all comes down to what your going to use it for, don't get me wrong you can use a 6 power for 500m, but whats the size of the game you'll be shooting at.same with the .22 magnum, i might shoot something 10m away from me on 2 power, to 100m away the size of a rabbit in the grass.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 21 Apr 2020, 5:51 am

Am88 wrote:Very Welcome, it all comes down to what your going to use it for, don't get me wrong you can use a 6 power for 500m, but whats the size of the game you'll be shooting at.same with the .22 magnum, i might shoot something 10m away from me on 2 power, to 100m away the size of a rabbit in the grass.


Well now that I'm gathering all this information, I might eventually look at a 6x for my .223.
I'm just making goals to aim towards. Life gets boring and you need something to look forward to.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by SCJ429 » 21 Apr 2020, 10:35 am

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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 21 Apr 2020, 10:42 am

SCJ429 wrote:Pity the exchange rate is so poor.

https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-6x42-tacti ... 05767.html

Roughly $473 Australian...
Price of oil plummeted today, that might cause the US$ to dip...
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by SCJ429 » 21 Apr 2020, 11:12 am

Which is pretty good value. I have used a 10x SWFA and was very impressed for a budget scope.

Most of my fixed power scopes are Leupold, 12x, 24x and 36x. They provide excellent optical quality and are nice and light.

I also have a Sightron and a Weaver fixed power. Never had an issue with one except for the 24x Leupold which after 30 years stopped focussing. Sent it to the Australian service centre who fixed it for free.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by Harrynsw » 21 Apr 2020, 2:03 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Which is pretty good value. I have used a 10x SWFA and was very impressed for a budget scope.

Most of my fixed power scopes are Leupold, 12x, 24x and 36x. They provide excellent optical quality and are nice and light.

I also have a Sightron and a Weaver fixed power. Never had an issue with one except for the 24x Leupold which after 30 years stopped focussing. Sent it to the Australian service centre who fixed it for free.

Wow after 30 years :o
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by johncz » 26 May 2021, 9:48 am

Recently switching from variable scopes to fixed on two of my hunting/field rifles. I now have a German made Schmidt and Bender 6x42 (A7) on my 30-06 Mauser M12 Expert, compared to the Leupold 3-9x40 VX-1 it replaced it is head and shoulders better. I recently took two Fallow does late afternoon that were standing in the shadows without even thinking about it, contrast and brightness is amazing. The difference was so much so that compared to the Vortex Viper HS-T I had on my 25-06 Tikka Super Varmint I immediately replaced it with a Hungaria made Schmidt and Bender 8x56 (A7) Klassik.
Just a side thought on hunting with fixed power optics that needs to be considered - 1. Buy the best optic you can afford, I went with S&B and they are truly superb in all regards. 2. When hunting do you regularly change the magnification on your current optic, it's been at least 25 years since I hunted with fixed power scopes however I always hunted with my scope around 4x or 6x so this was not a thought of concern. 3. Some shooters will tell you just to set a variable scope on a certain power and that is the same, they are missing the point, fixed power optics transmit light better through design. So much so that some cheap fixed power optics are brighter than some variable scopes that cost 5 times as much. 4. Having less gizmos increases reliability, I have never heard of a quality fixed power scope having a mechanical failure (although I am sure they have), I have seen a few quality variable scopes fail under recoil. 5. There are some excellent variable powered scopes on the market, the price is usually the same as a small car which I cannot justify for my hunting, $1000 buys a rugged, reliable quality fixed power optic.
Cheers
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by on_one_wheel » 26 May 2021, 9:53 am

500m is a big stretch for a fixed power scope for dual purpose.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by deanp100 » 26 May 2021, 5:11 pm

Unless you a very special 500 metres in the bush is a big ask for anyone or any setup.
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Re: Fixed power scopes

Post by on_one_wheel » 26 May 2021, 7:28 pm

Here's what a rabbit size target will look at 6x mag @ 500 meters. You'd almost loose it behind a mill dot.
To add some more context to 500m shots, you can see movement through the scope from your heartbeat.
Unless you're exceptionally awesome, 6x will be just ok at 500 meters as long as you only plan on hitting large gongs, which is not exactly target shooting, its more just plinking.

Screenshot_20210526-185720_Strelok Pro.jpg
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Screenshot_20210526-190040_Strelok Pro.jpg
Screenshot_20210526-190040_Strelok Pro.jpg (161.56 KiB) Viewed 6301 times
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