Problem with Zeiss Scope

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Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 09 Jun 2020, 4:38 pm

Hello
Grateful for some advice as not had this issue before and feeling like a noob.

My Montana ASR 300WSM was getting a muzzle break fitted so the gunsmith also put on the scope so thats been done properly.

The scope is a Zeiss 3-9 x 42mm Terra and was bought new from a well reputed shop online.

Its boxed and looks legit. The optics are clear but I'm pretty sure the turrets turn the wrong way so when it says up it sights down and Left/ right etc.

This has meant sighting it has been difficult, even with bore sighting and I'm beginning to wonder if this is a fake or does this ever happen?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jun 2020, 4:46 pm

olly_2001 wrote:Hello
Grateful for some advice as not had this issue before and feeling like a noob.

My Montana ASR 300WSM was getting a muzzle break fitted so the gunsmith also put on the scope so thats been done properly.

The scope is a Zeiss 3-9 x 42mm Terra and was bought new from a well reputed shop online.

Its boxed and looks legit. The optics are clear but I'm pretty sure the turrets turn the wrong way so when it says up it sights down and Left/ right etc.

This has meant sighting it has been difficult, even with bore sighting and I'm beginning to wonder if this is a fake or does this ever happen?

Thanks in advance.


I guess it's possible it might be reversed somehow, but that would require reverse threading the turrets, seems very unlikely.
Turning the turrets generally pushes the bullet across the paper in the direction of the turret, it does not move the crosshair in the direction the turret says.
If your bullets are hitting 100mm to the left of your point of aim, and 100mm high, you want to adjust the elevation DOWN to move the bullets down the paper, and RIGHT to move your bullets to the right on the paper.

The easiest way to zero is to fire a group, hold the rifle on the same point of aim, and adjust the turrets to move the reticle over the group. This would be reversed though as you are moving the reticle rather than the bullets, so you would go UP and LEFT.
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Jun 2020, 4:48 pm

I’ll bet my left one - your thinking right clicks on scope pushes the barrel right - over...to The point of impact. Doesn’t work that way...
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 09 Jun 2020, 4:54 pm

Thanks Guys .. I'm reassured that its probably me and not a lemon scope - and your points hit home

I think your left one is safe

Will report back
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Jun 2020, 4:57 pm

I Literally had a guy with me the other day who did a similar thing - he was shooting 4” high and I said, you’ll need 16 clicks to sort that - his next shot was 8” high - doh!
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jun 2020, 5:00 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I Literally had a guy with me the other day who did a similar thing - he was shooting 4” high and I said, you’ll need 16 clicks to sort that - his next shot was 8” high - doh!


I do it all the bloody time!
I struggle with things that have two options, can never remember which is which. If it had a third option, to move the reticle at 45-degrees as well say, it would never be a problem :-)
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 09 Jun 2020, 5:25 pm

You guys are awesome!! Truly shooters are the most helpful folks.
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by Stix » 09 Jun 2020, 5:58 pm

Depends on how youre using the scope...
If youre trying to use something similar to the "one shot method" of sighting in, or something similar, what the direction on the turrets tells you is the direction the bullet goes--not the reticle.

If youre trying to move the reticle to match the POI, everything is actually in reverse...you can see this, or to better understand this, strap the rifle down so it cant be moved & wind the scope off from being sighted in, or better still have someone else do it so you dont know which direction the turrets have been turned...then fire a shot into a target & try to wind the reticle back to the POI using the stated turret directions...then you'll see its all backwards--kinda...

Anyone whos set up a scope the old fashioned way with trying to align the scopes windage without turning turrets will know what i mean...
Well I know what i mean, despite the fact im probably not explaining myself well...
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I always get the windage mixed up, all based on how my mind thinks when it comes threads....
Back in my younger days of stripping & fixing old holdens, id get confused with things like pitman arm nuts/suspension etc etc etc while i was laying upside down facing backwards & trying do undo a nut from above, inadvertantly doing them up, or visa-versa...

So to counteract that mental confusion, i taught myself that for a standard right hand thread, no matter which way i was facing, turning clockwise was to turn it to the "right" & thus tighten...& to turn it anti-clockwise wa to turn it "left" which loosened the nut...

Now to transfer that to a scope is ok for elevation--my mind imagines a bolt/screw im loosening (anti-clockwise=left turn=up) & in doing so the head of the bolt comes up--or down if im tightening it up=turn to the right.. ...All good...

But...bring that logic to the windage turret & my thinks to turn anti-clockwise is a "left" turn--but it moves the POI to the right... :crazy:

I cannot tell you the amount of times i have sat there & told myself out loud to "turn it the other way" while i turn it the wrong way...its very frustrating when doing a load test & want to see the POI clocking around the target, but ive started way off because my minds natural instinct says "anti-clockwise is left" & i wind it the wrong way for initial zero...then i have to adjust the turrets mid test & struggle to interpolate the shift to see common POI in the search for a sweet spot......

Edit...sorry Blade...i just read what youve said, that ive just repeated you... :silent:
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by Blr243 » 09 Jun 2020, 6:22 pm

I’ll bet my right one TT. Has the solution. If the rifle is in a cradle u can turn the dials while looking thru the scope
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 10 Jun 2020, 8:50 am

Thanks legends.
The above advice on sighting is gold - i've cut and paste to my notes
My problem has been that i've been on a rest thats on a mattress in a field rather than properly fixed - so the reticle wasn't fixed - and I didnt have the smarts to realise.

Its a relief its not the scope or the rifle but a bitty embaressing - cheers
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by solarpak » 11 Jun 2020, 7:55 pm

i am a huge Zeiss fan -but why they discontinued the Conquest line and came up with the Terra is beyond me (not to be confused with the Conquest HD5 line)
The Conquest 3-9x40 MC would have rate as one of the best hunting scopes ever made - assembled in the USA from top shelf euro glass and components - back then for a retail price of around $500 it spanked some $1000 optics !!!

Wish they still made them!
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by Stix » 11 Jun 2020, 8:05 pm

solarpak wrote:i am a huge Zeiss fan -but why they discontinued the Conquest line and came up with the Terra is beyond me (not to be confused with the Conquest HD5 line)
The Conquest 3-9x40 MC would have rate as one of the best hunting scopes ever made - assembled in the USA from top shelf euro glass and components - back then for a retail price of around $500 it spanked some $1000 optics !!!

Wish they still made them!
C.


Conquest HD5 are rubbish...!!...mine would only be worth half the money i paid for it--if it worked...!!

They were yet another POS marketed as high quality because they have coatings that brighten up the image...i wont buy a Zeiss again, & wouldnt suggest anyone else do either...!!
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by Blr243 » 11 Jun 2020, 8:38 pm

Rebel guns told me Zeiss have a nice line of scopes and a lesser feral line of scopes
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 23 Nov 2020, 7:55 pm

I said I would follow up and I have.
Finally got the WSM sighted in
The darn terra sighted properly in the vertical but was back to front on the L/R windage!!
Wtf is that about? Has anyone ever heard of that. I’m sure it’s a real zeiss but I’m with the others here swearing off them. You can get a vortex cheaper and they are far superior
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by bladeracer » 23 Nov 2020, 8:36 pm

olly_2001 wrote:I said I would follow up and I have.
Finally got the WSM sighted in
The darn terra sighted properly in the vertical but was back to front on the L/R windage!!
Wtf is that about? Has anyone ever heard of that. I’m sure it’s a real zeiss but I’m with the others here swearing off them. You can get a vortex cheaper and they are far superior


Back to front?
Your bullets are hitting two-minutes to the left of where you are aiming, so you dial in two-minutes to the right, but the next group is four-minutes to the left of point of aim?
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by straightshooter » 24 Nov 2020, 6:13 am

solarpak wrote:i am a huge Zeiss fan -but why they discontinued the Conquest line and came up with the Terra is beyond me (not to be confused with the Conquest HD5 line)
The Conquest 3-9x40 MC would have rate as one of the best hunting scopes ever made - assembled in the USA from top shelf euro glass and components - back then for a retail price of around $500 it spanked some $1000 optics !!!

Wish they still made them!
C.

So do I.
They were Zeiss's first foray into the cheaper end of the market and they got it wrong, the scopes were far too good compared to the well established brands in that price segment.
Luckily I managed to acquire a couple at the time.
Just try and find a 1.8-5.5 Conquest these days.
Similarly when Nikon released their first rifle scopes in the 90's they too were of superior quality. In my opinion they are comparable if not better than the Conquest and in the US they are known as 'pre Monarch' scopes and if one were to come up at the right price I would snap it up.
The only drawback with these scopes is they don't come in the monster sizes demanded by today's tactico snipo enthusiasts.
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 27 Nov 2020, 2:01 pm

Yes so on the L/R you dial in the direction of your point of impact and it’s opposite on the target. You think you are going 2 min left and you end up 4 m right. I asked about and that’s how zeiss go. Go figure
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2020, 4:02 pm

olly_2001 wrote:Yes so on the L/R you dial in the direction of your point of impact and it’s opposite on the target. You think you are going 2 min left and you end up 4 m right. I asked about and that’s how zeiss go. Go figure


This is what the manual says.
Zeiss manual.JPG
Zeiss manual.JPG (52.34 KiB) Viewed 5928 times

"If the rifle shoots too far left, turn windage dial (7) counter clockwise to move the
point of impact toward the right (“R” direction).
If the rifle shoots too far right, turn windage dial (7) clockwise to move the point
of impact toward the left."
This is the same as every scope I own. Turning the dial counterclockwise moves the bullet impacts to the right on the target.

You do not "dial in the direction of your point of impact", you dial in the direction you want to _move_ your point of impact.
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by Die Judicii » 27 Nov 2020, 8:22 pm

Not impossible but when referring to early Zeiss (before they wandered off into cheap stuff) I seriously doubt they made any doubtful scopes.
I love them so much, that approx 90% of my rifles have Zeiss mounted on them.
But,,,,,,, they are all the high quality early varieties like the Zeiss Duralyt and the Conquest MC's

Mate,, if you are still having problems try what (I think Blade Racer) suggested.
Fire a 3 shot group,,, then gun vise or securely sand bag the rifle with cross hairs sitting on your original aiming point,,, and then without moving the rifle simply wind the cross hairs across to the point of impact.
Then test fire it.

It's good practice before you even try to zero your rifle to wind both knobs to the stop point then back the other way to the stop point, and count the total number of clicks.
If for example you count 30 clicks in total,, then wind it back 15 clicks so you are 1/2 way on the adjustment.
Do that on both elevation and windage turrets,,,,,,,, then ,,start zeroing your rifle. :thumbsup:
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by animalpest » 27 Nov 2020, 9:01 pm

Stix - haha its simple mate.
Lefty loosy, righty tighty.
For scopes, if you are looking directly at the windage turrent, screwing it anticlockwise loosens it bringing it towards you. To the right.

Same applies looking at the elevation turrent from directly above. Loosen it brings it up
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 29 Nov 2020, 11:13 am

Thanks Bladeracer I did have a look at the instructions - i admit i often dont but it was pissing me off so i'll check on those directions again but it says one thing and does the other - You gotta believe me!
I've sighted in plenty of rifles and this was a pain in the arse. Also because its a 300WSM you cant exactly just pop off a few rounds that easily, its an antisocial bang that goes off.

Any way to say thanks for all the help - here is a link to a zeiss Conquest on ebay so grab it while you can.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Carl-Zeiss- ... _Auction=1
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by deanp100 » 29 Nov 2020, 2:00 pm

I’d be looking for proof of authenticity for any zeiss on eBay. Fakes are extremely common.
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by olly_2001 » 01 Dec 2020, 4:06 pm

deanp100 wrote:I’d be looking for proof of authenticity for any zeiss on eBay. Fakes are extremely common.


Sadly you are correct - the box looks the part with serials etc but I'm going to have a closer look.
Its a high quality fake if it is and the gunsmith who fitted it (when he did the muzzle break) thought it was legit.
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by deanp100 » 01 Dec 2020, 5:10 pm

olly_2001 wrote:
deanp100 wrote:I’d be looking for proof of authenticity for any zeiss on eBay. Fakes are extremely common.


Sadly you are correct - the box looks the part with serials etc but I'm going to have a closer look.
Its a high quality fake if it is and the gunsmith who fitted it (when he did the muzzle break) thought it was legit.

Usually a quick google of the serial number reveals the same number all over the world. Not sure why Chinese aren't smart enough to give each copy a unique number .
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Re: Problem with Zeiss Scope

Post by Die Judicii » 05 Dec 2020, 10:13 pm

Oh Boy,,,,,, they are REALLY smart,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but,,,, only when it suits them
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