Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective bell?

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective bell?

Post by TassieTiger » 14 Aug 2020, 9:22 pm

So just been looking at red dots, reflex sights and in general , smaller mag scopes like 2-7, 1-5 and similar.

Brings me to a query - why do scopes with lower magnifying potential have no real objective bell and thinner tubes ? Is this because they are predominantly designed for closer operation thus don’t need additional light? But if so - what about low light conditions?
Ie a Leupold 1.5-5 has only a 20mm tube and no bell - how would that perform in dusky / twilight conditions? Why do manufacturers make such small body scopes - means yet another set of bloody rings...
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by InisBineest » 14 Aug 2020, 9:48 pm

My understanding is just that, smaller scope with lower mag is often for daylight and closer range shooting. If your spotlighting or dawn/ dusk shooting it would be best to get a bigger bell for more light. As for the thinner tube, keeps down on weight. No need for a 30mm tube when you need bugger all adjustment between 10-100m.
There are some 30mm tube 1-4(up to 10 on more expensive glass, nightforce and that) LPOs that are around too, but apart from Nikko stirling, they tend to be a lot pricier.
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by bladeracer » 14 Aug 2020, 9:49 pm

TassieTiger wrote:So just been looking at red dots, reflex sights and in general , smaller mag scopes like 2-7, 1-5 and similar.

Brings me to a query - why do scopes with lower magnifying potential have no real objective bell and thinner tubes ? Is this because they are predominantly designed for closer operation thus don’t need additional light? But if so - what about low light conditions?
Ie a Leupold 1.5-5 has only a 20mm tube and no bell - how would that perform in dusky / twilight conditions? Why do manufacturers make such small body scopes - means yet another set of bloody rings...


Light transmission is a function of objective diameter and magnification. At one-power your exit pupil is the entire width of the objective lens. I would expect light transmission in low light to be very good for that reason. And when shooting with both eyes open, you want a compact scope that doesn't interrupt your vision past it.
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by InisBineest » 14 Aug 2020, 9:50 pm

Incidentally my Leupold Freedom 1.5-4x20 actually is pretty good in low light, just fine with a spotlight... Not that I can hit anything with it but that is more about the ahooter:P
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by bigpete » 14 Aug 2020, 10:43 pm

What do you mean thinner bodies ? They all fit 1" rings which is pretty bloody standard really.
As far as I know there's 1" scopes,30mm scopes,and i believe there's some that are 34mm scopes. I don't have any 30mm scopes on any of my rifles so 1" is pretty standard to me.
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by TassieTiger » 14 Aug 2020, 10:55 pm

bigpete wrote:What do you mean thinner bodies ? They all fit 1" rings which is pretty bloody standard really.
As far as I know there's 1" scopes,30mm scopes,and i believe there's some that are 34mm scopes. I don't have any 30mm scopes on any of my rifles so 1" is pretty standard to me.


Is this 1 inch tube ?
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rifle-sc ... m-1-5-4x20
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by bigpete » 14 Aug 2020, 10:58 pm

TassieTiger wrote:
bigpete wrote:What do you mean thinner bodies ? They all fit 1" rings which is pretty bloody standard really.
As far as I know there's 1" scopes,30mm scopes,and i believe there's some that are 34mm scopes. I don't have any 30mm scopes on any of my rifles so 1" is pretty standard to me.


Is this 1 inch tube ?
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rifle-sc ... m-1-5-4x20


I actually don't need to even look at it to tell you yes it is. 20mm is the objective lens,not the tube diameter
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by TassieTiger » 14 Aug 2020, 11:01 pm

But...The objective lens appears to Be larger then the tube body
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by bigpete » 14 Aug 2020, 11:03 pm

The objective lense is the one closest to whst youre looking at.....
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by TassieTiger » 14 Aug 2020, 11:10 pm

My bad - thought objective was furthest away, not the ocular / eye piece...
Even so - id have thought the numbers would be 1.5-5/24...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
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ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by bigpete » 14 Aug 2020, 11:12 pm

No,coz its a 20mm diameter piece of glass with a 25mm tube around it.
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by boingk » 14 Aug 2020, 11:31 pm

Hi mate, I've got a box for one sitting on my shelf. Its a 1" tube. Standard.

Incidentally it also fits standard 1" rings on my Marlin 1895, heh.

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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by TassieTiger » 15 Aug 2020, 1:20 am

Thank you all for replies. I’ve been enlightened once again. It’s going to be a long 40 days waiting for this marlin...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by bladeracer » 15 Aug 2020, 2:45 am

TassieTiger wrote:Thank you all for replies. I’ve been enlightened once again. It’s going to be a long 40 days waiting for this marlin...


Why 40 days?
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by eddievic » 15 Aug 2020, 6:03 am

also the 1x4 type scopes have less lenses this allow more light in.

Thanks
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by No1_49er » 15 Aug 2020, 7:16 am

TassieTiger wrote:
bigpete wrote:What do you mean thinner bodies ? They all fit 1" rings which is pretty bloody standard really.
As far as I know there's 1" scopes,30mm scopes,and i believe there's some that are 34mm scopes. I don't have any 30mm scopes on any of my rifles so 1" is pretty standard to me.


Is this 1 inch tube ?
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rifle-sc ... m-1-5-4x20

If you had taken the time to read the 'Dimensions' tab on that web link, it is quite clearly stated that the tube diameter is 1".
FWIW, I have several Leupold 1 - 4x, and 1 1/2 - 5x scopes, and they are superb, even in low light. So easy to sit the reticle on your target, even at 1x power, and "smash" it.
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by straightshooter » 15 Aug 2020, 8:27 am

Believe it or not, it is possible to educate oneself on the rudiments of rifle scope design and function relatively easily from the internet if one wishes to be able to avoid being sucked in by regurgitated advertising fluff.
The rudiments are relatively straightforward but it is sometimes counter-intuitive as to what is important for one's purposeful application of any particular scope and what isn't.
This approach is far better than soliciting opinions out of the ether, some of which may be coming from a source comparable to oneself in ignorance.
Another important thing to consider is that for some scopes the ex factory cost of the scope is much less than the cost of it's marketing and packaging. So although price is important it isn't necessarily a good indicator of the relative merits of scopes.
Lastly, beware of youtube reviews, irrespective if the video is a slick professional production or has been done by a bogan hillbilly.
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by InisBineest » 15 Aug 2020, 9:38 am

TassieTiger wrote:Thank you all for replies. I’ve been enlightened once again. It’s going to be a long 40 days waiting for this marlin...

I have that same scope on my Marlin 1895 in 45-70... Its perfect for that rig:) Highly recommend it!
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by TassieTiger » 15 Aug 2020, 10:21 am

No1_49er wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
bigpete wrote:What do you mean thinner bodies ? They all fit 1" rings which is pretty bloody standard really.
As far as I know there's 1" scopes,30mm scopes,and i believe there's some that are 34mm scopes. I don't have any 30mm scopes on any of my rifles so 1" is pretty standard to me.


Is this 1 inch tube ?
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/rifle-sc ... m-1-5-4x20

If you had taken the time to read the 'Dimensions' tab on that web link, it is quite clearly stated that the tube diameter is 1".
FWIW, I have several Leupold 1 - 4x, and 1 1/2 - 5x scopes, and they are superb, even in low light. So easy to sit the reticle on your target, even at 1x power, and "smash" it.


Well believe it or not - I did look on the site before posting The Q, but unlike yourself, who oozes perfection - I missed it. Even if I had have seen 1” - I may have still asked re the 1-5/20...or maybe I shouldn’t have...? do we need a forum ? I mean if everyone would like to do their own research and read all other additional forums and be pro active in their own additional IT research, then there will be no reason for anyone to post any questions?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by eddievic » 15 Aug 2020, 11:26 am

Chill guys. Its ok ppl can ask silly questions, friends help friends even if friends ask silly questions.

Thanks
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Aug 2020, 11:42 am

TassieTiger wrote:So just been looking at red dots, reflex sights and in general , smaller mag scopes like 2-7, 1-5 and similar.

Brings me to a query - why do scopes with lower magnifying potential have no real objective bell and thinner tubes ? Is this because they are predominantly designed for closer operation thus don’t need additional light? But if so - what about low light conditions?
Ie a Leupold 1.5-5 has only a 20mm tube and no bell - how would that perform in dusky / twilight conditions? Why do manufacturers make such small body scopes - means yet another set of bloody rings...


I have a Weaver 1-5.

the reason is to have a much wider field of view than normal.

sh1t in low light conditions. The reason I no longer use mine.

I would not recomend one, but mine is going cheap if your keen, optics are only average. Better to get a fixed low power. Say a 4x40
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by TassieTiger » 15 Aug 2020, 1:37 pm

bladeracer wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Thank you all for replies. I’ve been enlightened once again. It’s going to be a long 40 days waiting for this marlin...


Why 40 days?


I’m told by my local that - they were out of stock ( SBL model) with 40 coming into the country end of September and at time of my ordering, only 7 were remaining...seems a bit of an uptake in marlin 1895’s.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by bladeracer » 15 Aug 2020, 3:12 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:So just been looking at red dots, reflex sights and in general , smaller mag scopes like 2-7, 1-5 and similar.

Brings me to a query - why do scopes with lower magnifying potential have no real objective bell and thinner tubes ? Is this because they are predominantly designed for closer operation thus don’t need additional light? But if so - what about low light conditions?
Ie a Leupold 1.5-5 has only a 20mm tube and no bell - how would that perform in dusky / twilight conditions? Why do manufacturers make such small body scopes - means yet another set of bloody rings...


I have a Weaver 1-5.

the reason is to have a much wider field of view than normal.

sh1t in low light conditions. The reason I no longer use mine.

I would not recomend one, but mine is going cheap if your keen, optics are only average. Better to get a fixed low power. Say a 4x40


Isn't FoV down to magnification? How does not having a larger objective lens increase FoV?
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by animalpest » 15 Aug 2020, 4:30 pm

I have a couple of low power scopes such as 1-3x and 1.5-5x. All are very good in low light as you can only use up to 8mm exit pupil.

The low magnification is awesome for quick shots for the scrub or for dangerous game - hence they are fitted to reservations or big calibres.
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Re: Smaller mag scopes - why thinner bodies, no objective be

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Aug 2020, 5:07 pm

The ability of the scope to help see in low light is a combination of factors. E.g.

Large objective lens collects more light.
Quality of lenses
Exit pupil size, partly a result of magnification.

This might help
https://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/optics- ... ction.html

https://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/how- ... elief.html

https://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/stories-home.html
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