Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by djmm » 28 Dec 2020, 9:16 am

Say for rifle practice exclusively for range target shooting at 50 or 100m, which one is better for learning?

I was leaning towards 1-4x as you get the see the real distance in 1x and upwards, and I assume it's good to practice under 1x magnification as well?
Or it doesn't matter?
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by rc42 » 28 Dec 2020, 10:19 am

Target shooting at fixed 50m/100m distances is best suited to high magnification second focal plane scopes.

With 1x and even 4x you won't see the movement against the target and won't be able to know when you are centered on it. At 12x you will be getting there but will probably wish for even higher magnification, especially for 100m use, and you'll certainly need an additional spotting scope to see where you're hitting at that distance.

Low magnification scopes are ideal for close, fast moving targets as the acquisition time is much lower so they are great for hunting, especially in wooded areas.

High magnification scopes are ideal for long range static targets, you can see the exact placement of the crosshairs so you can see how much you're wobbling and you can see the impact points immediately so you can see what the wind is doing to your shots. SFP keeps the reticule small even at full magnification and you don't need the fixed holdover at different magnification levels that you get from FFP scopes.

Middle range (around the 3-9 or 4-16 ranges) are compromise scopes that are poor at close fast targets and also poor at fixed long range targets but do well at things between those, budget scopes in that range are generally the best choice for beginners so that you can work out what they are lacking before buying your 'real' scope. Your shooting disciplines may also change as you pass beyond learning so I'd suggest not over investing on your scope early on.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by Member-Deleted » 28 Dec 2020, 11:00 am

Totally agree with rc42. He types faster than me though :lol:

And just to add I’m my layman’s terms, I guess it depends on your shooting position firstly. If you’re standing or sitting or simply not using any resting devices then you want a lower magnified target as you will notice your own natural wobble more with a higher mag. It can be disorientating and make acquiring your target difficult.
I wouldn’t bother with 1x mag. But I’d use some, maybe 4 to 6. I guess it’s your preference so you find the happy place.

On the other hand if on the bench or in a position with the rifle rested you want a higher magnification to sight the target better. It will give you a more precise centre to aim at. The better you can see the bullseye the better the chance of hitting it.

Also for most practice at a range you want a higher mag to help you as you don’t need a wider field of view as you would when hunting. A target at a range isn’t going to move and you don’t need to worry what’s around it. You just want to focus on the centre of the target.

Personally, if I’m on a bench with bags or on the bipod I wind mine up to it’s max (18x) so I can see the target as best as I can. And I still wish I had more!
A lot of people are happy to use less magnification and don’t like it too high.
I like to see the actual bullet holes in the target. Which I can’t, even at 12x. Just personal preference.

I’m not sure what you mean by under 1x. What’s the point of a scope to make something look further away than it actually is? :unknown:

Really, the rifle and scope are just the tools you use to shoot. Once set up correctly, presuming they are of quality, they should do the same thing repeatedly, within reason.
The main input for changes is what YOU do and that’s what ultimately changes the outcome of the shot... again within reason.
Remember it’s you that is training/practicing, not the firearm.

In the end mate, try everything you can to improve no matter however strange something may sound. Doesn’t hurt to try. To me that’s all part of the fun.

If you don’t have a scope yet, research them well mate and get to understand them. Ask as many people as you can all your questions. There are many different scopes with different features out there for different uses. Stuff like different reticles and ffp/sfp and parallax adjustment just to name a few.

Work out which scope best suites your type/style of shooting and buy the best one for your needs...and your budget.
It’s just as important as the gun!
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by Larry » 28 Dec 2020, 11:47 am

Agree with both the previous posts. Another thing to consider on the scope is the reticle. Both the style and the thickness of the markings. Target scopes can have very thin reticles making them very hard to see for some people. I have picked up a very good scope very cheaply for that exact reason the reticle was just too fine for the guy that bought it. Granted he was in his 80s but it was a common problem and hence there were quite a few scopes being sold for that reason that were very new and still in as new condition.
for target shooting I would recommend at least a 25 times for 100 yrds and if you want to go further out look at 32-35 times. If you have the money 50 * +. You need to have a good look through them and if possible try them out at the range. for example I have used the March 60 and 80 mag quite a few times but I dont like them the reticle is super fine and the eye relief is super critical. Even for prone target shooting at fixed distances with plenty of time I find it too hard to obtain a good sight picture easily and to be able to maintain it for a period of time while waiting for the condition to be right.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by djmm » 28 Dec 2020, 12:04 pm

See this is why I'm glad I asked lol. Thanks for all the nice tips guys, I didn't even think of target observations from movement etc which obviously much easier with higher mag...

I'll rule out the 1mm starting then. A mate is planning to change scope and I may be able to get his Zeiss V4 3-12 at good price. 100m is what I plan to do at later stage but most likely I'll start with 50m range first. In this case I think the 3-12 would suffice?
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by rc42 » 28 Dec 2020, 4:55 pm

A second hand 3-12 scope in a reasonable quality brand is a perfect choice, you'll see how it fits to your shooting and understand exactly what shortfalls it has which will guide you to what you need for your next scope. 12x is enough for 50m shooting, more is better for bench rest but as Denno wrote, less is actually better for freehand.

And eventually you can sell it on for almost no loss, or put it on one of the other rifles that you will have bought... My plan to get only one rifle is currently sitting at eight in just over a year.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by djmm » 28 Dec 2020, 6:49 pm

8 rifles in a year lol. Lucky for me I don't have the physical space to have safe bigger than 4 rifle size, so maybe 2 at most for me.

Yeah I think I'll start with 50m + 3-12 first and see how I go. Save the other option for excuse to get more later lol
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by djmm » 30 Dec 2020, 3:50 pm

Now after reading around, I'm a bit confused with the scope choice. My understanding is for 50/100m target practice, you'd want higher mag scopes - which means rimfire scopes and they are mostly fixed to 100m parallax.
I read that if I used such scope on short range, it would cause issue and I should technically get adjustable one. Is it really a big deal to use 100m fixed parallax scope on 50m target?
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by JohnV » 30 Dec 2020, 3:53 pm

I would choose the 3 to 12 .
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by SCJ429 » 30 Dec 2020, 4:43 pm

I am using a cheap Weaver fixed 36x on my rimfire and it can focus down to 10 metres. I can't be hard to find yourself a low power that can focus at short range. I started shooting rimfire with a fixed 4x so any scope that you can adjust the zoom down to around this level will be fine
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by Larry » 30 Dec 2020, 5:27 pm

Get a 4*16 or greater with a AO, that is the Parallex is adjustable. They are much cheaper than the parallax adjustable at the side and better suited to what you want.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by rc42 » 30 Dec 2020, 5:46 pm

Fixed parallax is fine for a beginner scope, the (approx.) 100m setting works well, at 50m everything should still be in sharp focus with very little parallax error. This error can be seen as the crosshairs moving left/right and up/down against the target as you move your eye position, the movement will either be in the same or opposite direction to your eye depending on whether the target is closer or further away than the fixed parallax distance. For freehand shooting it will be insignificant but you might notice it on a bench rest.

A good cheek weld to the stock and consistent hold will eradicate variation in eye position sufficiently that you won't even notice it for 50m or 100m bench rest targets, what you will notice is that targets closer than about 25m won't be in sharp focus and the closer the target the worse that will get. Adjustable Objective (AO) scopes give you a way to adjust the focus and the parallax along with it and can focus sharply from around 10m.

No need to over think it, that second hand 3-12 Zeiss would be a great choice.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by Member-Deleted » 30 Dec 2020, 5:50 pm

You don't need a rimfire scope for a rimfire and you may want to use the same scope for a bigger centrefire rifle one day.
I have a Bushnell AR scope on mine. It works excellently. For a pretty cheap scope it does the job well.

You definitely want parallax adjustment if you plan on using it for 50 & 100 otherwise you won't be able to focus it properly. It makes a big difference

I bought mine coz it's an all rounder. I only use it for 50, 100 and sometimes 150m range practice at the moment but once the world returns to normal I plan on trying out silouette shooting. That is done at different distances. I think they are 25, 40, 50 and 70 metres for rimfire... (I think). So parallax adjustment is definitely needed.

Make sure the scope you buy has this adjustment down to 25 metre. I think you will kick yourself later if you don't as you never know what you might want to shoot in the future.

Check out the Bushnell AR scopes. I'm not saying buy one, just check them out. They are feature packed and great bang for buck. I went down the scope rabbit hole last year and every one I found that I liked was either too pricey for a first scope or had some rediculous reticle that I didn't want or no parallax adj. or something.

It really will do your head in mate :crazy: :D

Edit... The guys are right about AO scopes. They work just as well and may open up your options a bit more too.
To be honest I wish mine was AO coz I'm a lefty and the adjustment on mine is on the left which makes it difficult to reach when sighting
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by boingk » 30 Dec 2020, 6:15 pm

Hi mate, for a good entry-level I'd suggest the Leupold Rifleman in 4-12x40. Its reasonably priced (about $450~500), gets a lifetime warranty, and the optical quality is good for the outlay.

I run Leupold almost exclusively and haven't been let down yet. If you go to resell it they will hold their value, and odds are you will just transfer it to another rifle if you up your target scope game later on.

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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by mchughcb » 30 Dec 2020, 6:31 pm

36X
Last edited by mchughcb on 31 Dec 2020, 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by djmm » 30 Dec 2020, 7:23 pm

Okay thanks for the confirmation. Maybe I should stop reading in too much and just try it on. So from the looks of it the one I'll have will be fine for 50. If I have any issue for some reason I guess by then I will definitely know for sure what type would work best. cheers.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by mchughcb » 30 Dec 2020, 10:46 pm

There are some cheaper 1-6x24 scopes around. I'd check them out. If you can't hit a deer broad side at 200m on 6x there is a problem.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by Larry » 31 Dec 2020, 8:20 am

mchughcb wrote:There are some cheaper 1-6x24 scopes around. I'd check them out. If you can't hit a deer broad side at 200m on 6x there is a problem.


Yes but you wont be able to see the center of the 50yrd or 100 yrd 22 target with a 6. Get the scope that suits the job. There is a reason that the smallbore shooters use 55 power scopes.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by mchughcb » 31 Dec 2020, 10:31 am

Yes sorry I didn't read the OP properly. Forgot everything I just said. If its for target only at a range get a weaver T36 AO
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by SCJ429 » 31 Dec 2020, 5:11 pm

mchughcb wrote:Yes sorry I didn't read the OP properly. Forgot everything I just said. If its for target only at a range get a weaver T36 AO


I wasn't suggesting that a novice buy a 36x scope to get him started or that he should go hunting with it. That said I have shot a fox with a 36x on my rifle and some bunnies with my 12-42 NF. The downside for using a fixed power high magnification at longer ranges is that you cannot wind the power ring back when the mirage gets bad.

I did compete in scoped 3P rimfire with a fixed 12x however this would be difficult for a novice and 6x may be much easier for offhand shooting. There is a weight limit of 4 kilos for this rimfire competition and fixed power scopes are much lighter.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by straightshooter » 01 Jan 2021, 7:58 am

Larry wrote:
mchughcb wrote:There are some cheaper 1-6x24 scopes around. I'd check them out. If you can't hit a deer broad side at 200m on 6x there is a problem.


Yes but you wont be able to see the center of the 50yrd or 100 yrd 22 target with a 6. Get the scope that suits the job. There is a reason that the smallbore shooters use 55 power scopes.

It's hard to understand how 50m smallbore prone shooters manage to regularly shoot equally small groups but with no magnification.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by JimTom » 01 Jan 2021, 8:04 am

Lots of good i fo already mate so not much to add. I remember when I was learning to shoot as a kid, my dad said no scope until you can shoot with open sights first.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by JimTom » 01 Jan 2021, 12:35 pm

That’s not a criticism either by the way. Good luck with it.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by ThePlinkster » 01 Jan 2021, 12:55 pm

I am trying to get very accurate using iron sights
(To broaden my skills)
(Because I enjoy the challenge also)

However

The scope that I have on my Tikka T1X is (24x) I believe
And I love it
The more magnification
The better it is I reckon
For me it is anyway
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by Bello » 01 Jan 2021, 11:13 pm

Hi mate
I like magnification. I always go a little higher in magnification on my rifles.
I do this, so when I am at the range I can see my bullet holes clearly on the targets.
Most my rifles are adorned with 5-25 even 5-30, on my 6.5 cm I have an 80 power.

I agree with what has been said above. See what suits you,. If possible get a good quality scope. They tend to be very clear, makes it a pleasure to shoot with good glass.
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by JohnV » 02 Jan 2021, 1:47 pm

Bello wrote:Hi mate
I like magnification. I always go a little higher in magnification on my rifles.
I do this, so when I am at the range I can see my bullet holes clearly on the targets.
Most my rifles are adorned with 5-25 even 5-30, on my 6.5 cm I have an 80 power.

I agree with what has been said above. See what suits you,. If possible get a good quality scope. They tend to be very clear, makes it a pleasure to shoot with good glass.

80 power , Sounds like a March scope ?
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by Bello » 02 Jan 2021, 3:02 pm

Hi JohnV
Yes it’s a March.
Due to Covid, I haven’t had the time to go to the range and give it a good workout.
Some love the March scope others don’t. When I get time to do some more load development on my 6.5CM (the man bun), I will be able to make a better assessment.

What’s your opinion on March scopes?
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Re: Learn with 1-4x scope or 3-12x?

Post by JohnV » 03 Jan 2021, 5:48 pm

Bello wrote:Hi JohnV
Yes it’s a March.
Due to Covid, I haven’t had the time to go to the range and give it a good workout.
Some love the March scope others don’t. When I get time to do some more load development on my 6.5CM (the man bun), I will be able to make a better assessment.

What’s your opinion on March scopes?

It's a top quality scope built to take Military work but don't knock it about because they cost an arm and a leg as you know . If you fall over throw yourself under the scope so it don't get scratched :lol: . Very jealous .
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