Night Tech Mini Sight 19 Thermal Scope

[dimim44]

Looking at upgrading to a thermal scope and wanted everyones opinion on the Night Tech Mini Sight 19 as my first thermal. Want to mount it on my CZ 17hmr mainly for foxes and rabbits out to 100-150m
Thanks

[scoot]

I notice you are in SA. Like I found, you will be limited in actually getting your hands on anything to get an idea of what to expect. Only guessing, but being entry level I'm not sure how you would go with I.d. and getting a clear image on a rabbit at 150m. Very small target & zoom will pixellate.
Maybe ring or pm Ben from "hunt the night". He seems to have experience with a few different brands of entry level thermals. Night owl is very knowledgeable too but deals more with high end stuff. I bought through him and am very happy with his service. Both were more than willing to spend time on the phone explaining things and cut down on the B.S. that is floating about.
I can only recommend talking to as many people as possible. Look through some if you can. Don't rely on internet. Cheap thermal is still expensive.

[brinny]

I have a Night tech ms 42 and have it setup on my Brno mdl 2 22....and thats about where it should stay too....I havent seen the MS19, but from what im hearing, it would be ok to put on a slug gun for shooting rats off the rafters in the shed....

[Die Judicii]

Do your homework well,,
When and ONLY when you believe you are well informed,,
Aim as high as you can,, or, wait and save more $$$
Buy once,,, cry once.
You get what you pay for. (EOS)

[anotherben]

The MS-19 isn't really designed to get out to those kind of distances and is a very entry level scope. Personally I'd be trying to find a scope with something more like 3-4 base magnification where you can avoid going past or 1x digital zoom or even avoid zooming altogether as anything in the lower end will have issues with pixelation past that.

[Blr243]

Punish your wallet thoroughly.. be brutal.. The financial suffering will pay off in the field

[scoot]

Not to sound condescending but can anyone tell me what the cheap basic thermals ARE good for. Is it simply a ploy to get money out of people's pockets or do they actually have a place.

[anotherben]

Scoot

Of course they have a place. Not everyone can afford a high end scope. Some people just want to shoot 50-80 meters, and some of the low end scopes will do this just as good as the high end scopes. The image quality may not be as good, but does it need to be?

The beauty about all the new scopes on the market is that it gives options to people who may not have been able to afford it previously. Thermal in my opinion is also the safest way to shoot at night, so again people who are just shooting casually at shorter distances are doing it a whole lot safer.

The needs of a professional shooter and casual recreational shooter can be two totally different things.

[Die Judicii]

Not to sound condescending but can anyone tell me what the cheap basic thermals ARE good for. Is it simply a ploy to get money out of people's pockets or do they actually have a place.

At the end of the day,,, it's the "business" of manufacturing, and regardless of high end or basic entry level equipment,, all the manufacturers want to see
is the $$$$ coming out of peoples wallets and into "their" bank accounts.
The more $$$$ and the faster the better.

It's the clever, sneaky, and cunning wording in their ads that annoys me.
ie: They don't tell lies,,,,, they just omit to say some things.

eg: When a manufacturer says that XXXX brand and XXXX model is capable of seeing a deer at XXX meters sounds great,,,,,,,
But what they don't say is Yes,, it'll see the deer at the claimed distance BUT,,,,, it will only show up as a fuzzy red blob.

In most instances if you cut the manufacturers distance claim in half, then, you get a truer description.

[anotherben]

eg: When a manufacturer says that XXXX brand and XXXX model is capable of seeing a deer at XXX meters sounds great,,,,,,,
But what they don't say is Yes,, it'll see the deer at the claimed distance BUT,,,,, it will only show up as a fuzzy red blob.

yeah you have to look pas the "detection range" and to the "identification range" (if its stated). They're two totally different things but they're the same with all scopes. For instance, the GSCI TIGEAR 675 has a detection range of a human target at 2500m, you won't know it's a human, you'll know its a blob. The manufactures could do better with their marketing around this subject that's for sure.

[brinny]

[quote="scoot"]Not to sound condescending but can anyone tell me what the cheap basic thermals ARE good for.

Real answer.....not much....
Those of us that have been around thermals for years know that....
BUT.....there are those out there that are seeing what thermals are capable of and are very keen to get into that field, but are restricted by their budget.....and will buy cheap to get one....but will soon realise that buying cheap wont do what they want....
It all depends also on what they are targeting and at what distance.....
A target the size of a deer will be a lot easier to shoot at 200m with a cheap thermal than a fox would be....
In saying that, there are more players coming into the manufacturing side of thermals now, and with that, and of course as technology gets better, and competition gets more aggressive, then prices will go down for the players to get their share of the market....
It will be interesting to see whats about and for how much in a few years time.....

[Die Judicii]

In saying that, there are more players coming into the manufacturing side of thermals now, and with that, and of course as technology gets better, and competition gets more aggressive, then prices will go down for the players to get their share of the market....
It will be interesting to see whats about and for how much in a few years time.....

About the price coming down with the advent of more players in the market,,,,,,

To a certain degree I strongly disagree.

I have noticed that after the initial launch of XXX brand and model, the price is right up there,, and then as time slides by you see the big stores/dealers will start advertising them with the usual ploys ( eofy sales, stocktake sales, hurry there is only limited stock, ) etc etc

Then the other brands (cheap or expensive) appear on the horizon and one would expect that the competition would drive prices down,,,,,,,,,,

But NO,,,, the XXXX brand and model then magically release the "new and improved model" and so the price is again way up on the top shelf,,,,,,,,,
AND the whole crazy cycle just starts all over again.

The manufacturers do this all the time with the result that Jack Citizen will ALWAYS have to pay top dollar for whatever quality,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
and can never get on top of the dung pile,,,, let alone stay there.

[brinny]

In saying that, there are more players coming into the manufacturing side of thermals now, and with that, and of course as technology gets better, and competition gets more aggressive, then prices will go down for the players to get their share of the market....
It will be interesting to see whats about and for how much in a few years time.....

About the price coming down with the advent of more players in the market,,,,,,

To a certain degree I strongly disagree.

I have noticed that after the initial launch of XXX brand and model, the price is right up there,, and then as time slides by you see the big stores/dealers will start advertising them with the usual ploys ( eofy sales, stocktake sales, hurry there is only limited stock, ) etc etc

Then the other brands (cheap or expensive) appear on the horizon and one would expect that the competition would drive prices down,,,,,,,,,,

But NO,,,, the XXXX brand and model then magically release the "new and improved model" and so the price is again way up on the top shelf,,,,,,,,,
AND the whole crazy cycle just starts all over again.

The manufacturers do this all the time with the result that Jack Citizen will ALWAYS have to pay top dollar for whatever quality,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
and can never get on top of the dung pile,,,, let alone stay there.

Not sure if i agree with that either....as we are seeing what im saying happening already....
As an example, when we are paying around the $8,250 for a Pulsar XP50 Trail 2 640 core 17 micron, and we can buy a Rico Iray 50 for $6,250 640 core 12 micron.....
There is a couple of grand difference in those two alone...and for those looking to get into the thermal field on a tight budget.....thats pretty attractive....
Sure the Rico is from China and a relative new player out there.......and may not have all the features that the other has.....but i can tell you that there is a ****** of them getting sold out there and are really getting their share (and more) of the market.....
I know of a bloke that has bought the Rico 42 384 core and 12 micron....and he raves about it.....and it was around the 4k mark.....
That particular chap had several of the others and has sent them all back, and bought the Rico as a replacement.....says its the best thing he has done.....
He posts a lot on several FB groups with pictures and video clips, and people take notice of this and of course thats the best advertising you will get......
Point im making is that there are scopes coming on the market that are a lot cheaper that will do the same job (or better) with the same or similar specs than what we have had available to us previously.....

[Die Judicii]

Brinny,,,,,,,,

I wonder what the real life expectancy of the one you mentioned, is,, compared to say for instance a Pulsar ?

If the cheap one dies,,,,, (as is the case with a lot of the cheap stuff these days) just outside the warranty period, and then having to buy another one,, the initial cost savings may suddenly make you wish you'd spent the extra dollars in the first instance.

But most likely only time will tell that story.

[brinny]

[quote="Die Judicii"]Brinny,,,,,,,,

I wonder what the real life expectancy of the one you mentioned, is,, compared to say for instance a Pulsar ?

If the cheap one dies,,,,, (as is the case with a lot of the cheap stuff these days) just outside the warranty period, and then having to buy another one,, the initial cost savings may suddenly make you wish you'd spent the extra dollars in the first instance.

But most likely only time will tell that story.[/quote

Certainly hear what your saying mate and agree.....
Just curious though.......You mention Pulsar in comparison....Can you tell me what the life expectancy of a Pulsar is?.....and what happens once the scope is out of warranty and it dies also??
Question isnt trying to be smart or anything sinister.....but to compare apples with apples, then i think its fair to ask.....

[scoot]

Don't quote me but I'm sure I read somewhere in pulsars literature that "parts" or "servicability" of units is provided for up to 5 years from purchase. Obviously at owners cost (presumably lots) after 3yr warranty is up.
If you read between the lines, due to constant evolution and upgrades, existing units become obsolete and unfixable after 5yrs from last model production.

[brinny]

Don't quote me but I'm sure I read somewhere in pulsars literature that "parts" or "servicability" of units is provided for up to 5 years from purchase. Obviously at owners cost (presumably lots) after 3yr warranty is up.
If you read between the lines, due to constant evolution and upgrades, existing units become obsolete and unfixable after 5yrs from last model production.

WOW.....Very interesting scoot.....

[Die Judicii]

Certainly hear what your saying mate and agree.....
Just curious though.......You mention Pulsar in comparison....Can you tell me what the life expectancy of a Pulsar is?.....and what happens once the scope is out of warranty and it dies also??
Question isnt trying to be smart or anything sinister.....but to compare apples with apples, then i think its fair to ask.....

I haven't double checked mine, but I think Scoot was pretty close to the money if not smack on target with regard to warranty and repairs.

And, in regard to comparing apples with apples,,,,, fair question,,, but I thought that's what this was about,,,, (cheap thermals compared to expensive) and
whether the cheap are worth it and or the niche they fit into.

[brinny]

Certainly hear what your saying mate and agree.....
Just curious though.......You mention Pulsar in comparison....Can you tell me what the life expectancy of a Pulsar is?.....and what happens once the scope is out of warranty and it dies also??
Question isnt trying to be smart or anything sinister.....but to compare apples with apples, then i think its fair to ask.....

I haven't double checked mine, but I think Scoot was pretty close to the money if not smack on target with regard to warranty and repairs.

And, in regard to comparing apples with apples,,,,, fair question,,, but I thought that's what this was about,,,, (cheap thermals compared to expensive) and
whether the cheap are worth it and or the niche they fit into.

Exactly....but when you asked about the life expectancy of the Ricos, i thought i would ask about the Pulsars as i have no clue in regard to that.....and i thought you may know....and you did....its all relevant in purchasing....no one wants to spend 6 or 8k on something that has, for example, a life span of 12 months, then has to be replaced....even spending another 8k every 5 years will hurt a lot of people if theirs dies in that time......
I have a Rico 50 here that has been sent to me to see what i think of it.....There is definitely a niche for this type of scope in the market.....must be....a lot are being sold.....will they last...who knows....as you have said....time will tell.....
Personally....ill stick to my GSCIs.....

[scoot]

I'd be interested in your opinion on the rico. Discounting cost, warranty, preconceptions, etc. How do they differ in terms of image, ergonomics, features, etc to similar "spec" brands like pulsar or gsci.
I can only assume being a new player they're coming to the market aggressively. Hopefully more than just on price.