Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreciated

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Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreciated

Post by Tassietassie » 03 Sep 2021, 12:05 pm

Hi Folks,

New to sports shooting, I will be nearly exclusively shooting on the range.

Decided on the CZ 457 American.

Struggling to decide on a scope ( Partly due to my lack of knowledge and indecisiveness.)

Worried I will go overboard and buy something over the top for 22LR range shooting and plinking. So 50-100mts and a bit further for a laugh when plinking.

Looking at the ............

1- Vortex-Diamondback-Tactical-6-24x50-FFP ( $620-$700 )

2- Bushnell Prime 6-18x50 SF SFP Multi X Rifle Scope ( $480 ish)

3- Vortex Venom 5-25x56 ( $675 )

4- Zero Tech Thrive 4-16x50 Mildot ( $ 480)

Don't mind paying up to $700 max, however I have a feeling I am going overboard.

Any and all comments appreciated, be as honest as you want.

Cheers
Last edited by Tassietassie on 04 Sep 2021, 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by boingk » 03 Sep 2021, 10:31 pm

Bushnell Prime is a solid option, especially so given their 'Ironclad' warranty. You'd be happy with anything in that list I reckon, but the Bushnell would translate well to other rifles when you get them. Be aware a 50mm objective is a large lens and will be bulky in the field should you chose to use it for other things.

My 22LR has a 3-9x40 on it and is brilliant for range plinking and also field use. It's a Tasco World Class.

Are you looking at serious competition or more just casual range use?
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bladeracer » 04 Sep 2021, 4:11 am

Tassietassie wrote:Hi Folks,

New to sports shooting, I will be nearly exclusively shooting on the range.

Decided on the CZ 557 American.

Struggling to decide on a scope ( Partly due to my lack of knowledge and indecisiveness.)

Worried I will go overboard and buy something over the top for 22LR range shooting and plinking. So 50-100mts and a bit further for a laugh when plinking.

Looking at the ............

1- Vortex-Diamondback-Tactical-6-24x50-FFP ( $620-$700 )

2- Bushnell Prime 6-18x50 SF SFP Multi X Rifle Scope ( $480 ish)

3- Vortex Venom 5-25x56 ( $675 )

4- Zero Tech Thrive 4-16x50 Mildot ( $ 480)

Don't mind paying up to $700 max, however I have a feeling I am going overboard.

Any and all comments appreciated, be as honest as you want.

Cheers


You don't need more than a 40mm objective unless you're spotlighting or shooting in poor light.
You also don't want an FFP scope.
6-power is higher than I like for walking and snap-shooting, I wouldn't go higher than 4-power at the bottom on a hunting rifle, if you're only shooting targets 6-power is fine.
Rather than type it all again, have a look at this thread - https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15836&p=272283#p272264
One point on a rimfire, you need a scope that will focus back to 10m or so.
I use the Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x40 on my rifles, it focuses back to 10m.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Tassietassie » 04 Sep 2021, 7:23 am

boingk wrote:Bushnell Prime is a solid option, especially so given their 'Ironclad' warranty. You'd be happy with anything in that list I reckon, but the Bushnell would translate well to other rifles when you get them. Be aware a 50mm objective is a large lens and will be bulky in the field should you chose to use it for other things.

My 22LR has a 3-9x40 on it and is brilliant for range plinking and also field use. It's a Tasco World Class.

Are you looking at serious competition or more just casual range use?


Thanks for the reply, great info cheers. It will just be for casual use down the club/ in house comps.

Cheers
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Tassietassie » 04 Sep 2021, 7:40 am

bladeracer wrote:
Tassietassie wrote:Hi Folks,

New to sports shooting, I will be nearly exclusively shooting on the range.

Decided on the CZ 557 American.

Struggling to decide on a scope ( Partly due to my lack of knowledge and indecisiveness.)

Worried I will go overboard and buy something over the top for 22LR range shooting and plinking. So 50-100mts and a bit further for a laugh when plinking.

Looking at the ............

1- Vortex-Diamondback-Tactical-6-24x50-FFP ( $620-$700 )

2- Bushnell Prime 6-18x50 SF SFP Multi X Rifle Scope ( $480 ish)

3- Vortex Venom 5-25x56 ( $675 )

4- Zero Tech Thrive 4-16x50 Mildot ( $ 480)

Don't mind paying up to $700 max, however I have a feeling I am going overboard.

Any and all comments appreciated, be as honest as you want.

Cheers


You don't need more than a 40mm objective unless you're spotlighting or shooting in poor light.
You also don't want an FFP scope.
6-power is higher than I like for walking and snap-shooting, I wouldn't go higher than 4-power at the bottom on a hunting rifle, if you're only shooting targets 6-power is fine.
Rather than type it all again, have a look at this thread - https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15836&p=272283#p272264
One point on a rimfire, you need a scope that will focus back to 10m or so.
I use the Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x40 on my rifles, it focuses back to 10m.


Thanks for the info, been looking at pros and cons of FFP and SFP, lots of opinions and info out there. RE their application, some great explanations about.

Noted, RE objective ... I dont think I will be spotting etc so will keep this in mind also.

I will check out that thread, many thanks.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Bello » 04 Sep 2021, 8:12 am

Hi
Congrats on your rifle purchase.
I always advocate to buy the best you can afford, with scopes.
When possible, go to your local gun shop and try a few scopes, see what suits your needs.
Leupold also make nice scopes.

You have stated you will mainly be plinking, so for this I like a bit of extra power on my scopes, so I can see the bullets hole at 100 meters.

For hunting, a scope with 3-9 x 40 on a 22LR is ample.
happy plinking :thumbsup:
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Tassietassie » 04 Sep 2021, 12:03 pm

Bello wrote:Hi
Congrats on your rifle purchase.
I always advocate to buy the best you can afford, with scopes.
When possible, go to your local gun shop and try a few scopes, see what suits your needs.
Leupold also make nice scopes.

You have stated you will mainly be plinking, so for this I like a bit of extra power on my scopes, so I can see the bullets hole at 100 meters.

For hunting, a scope with 3-9 x 40 on a 22LR is ample.
happy plinking :thumbsup:



Cheers Bello,

Just going to the dealers now, will have a good look at whats on offer. In Tassie so options limited to actually getting my paws on scopes.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by boingk » 05 Sep 2021, 12:23 am

Tassietassie wrote:In Tassie so options limited to actually getting my paws on scopes.


Wherever you go, there'll be a decent 3-9 or 4-12x40 in store. See how that suits and go from there.

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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bigpete » 06 Sep 2021, 11:03 am

Straight 4x40
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by animalpest » 06 Sep 2021, 11:15 am

Everyone nowadays seems to over-scope their rifles. Plinking and shooting targets (not competition) with a .22LR does not need nor is it really desirable to have something up to 24x.

Shooting a .22 out to 100m and beyond is more about being able to judge wind etc and sticking some monster scope on a little .22 is just silly.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Bugman » 06 Sep 2021, 4:33 pm

Also remember, as you get older, your eyesight gets a tad worse, so if you are contemplating keeping said scope then get the best you can afford. It will be worth it in the long run. Just my opinion, mind you.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Larry » 06 Sep 2021, 5:11 pm

Just to confuse you my opinion is pretty much the opposite of a lot of the previous posts. For your uses I would go with a scope that has much higher magnification. I would go with the specs of the diamondback or even greater. My only reservation with the diamond back would be the overall quality of the scope.
The 24 mag is ok the 50mil objective wont give you any problems under your uses and neither would a FFP. A FFP retical can be a bit overcrowded when on low magnification but for range work you will most likely set the mag to the higher ranges if not maxed out, under these conditions the retical will be the same as a SFP one.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bladeracer » 06 Sep 2021, 6:06 pm

Larry wrote:A FFP retical can be a bit overcrowded when on low magnification but for range work you will most likely set the mag to the higher ranges if not maxed out, under these conditions the retical will be the same as a SFP one.


Not in my experience. My SFP .25MoA reticle is .25MoA regardless of magnification (it covers 7.25mm of my target at 100m, 72.5mm at 1000m. A .25MoA reticle in an FFP might have a .25MoA reticle at minimum zoom, but is magnified as you increase zoom. So at 24-power a .25MoA reticle covers 6MoA of your target (that's 175mm at 100m, 1.75m at 1000m). The Athlon a mate uses has a .125MoA reticle, which is incredibly fine at minimum magnification, but huge at full zoom.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bladeracer » 06 Sep 2021, 6:16 pm

This is an example of an FFP reticle.
https://www.bushnell.com/riflescopes/match-pro/match-pro-6-24x50-riflescope/P2178035.html
This is the 6-24x50 Bushnell Match-Pro (which I think is a great FFP scope).
The reticle at 6-power is nice and fine for target work, but wind it up to 24-power and it's four-times the thickness. That's the reverse of what you want for hunting and for shooting paper. You want a heavy reticle that is easy to pick up quickly at minimum zoom for snap-shooting while walking into an area, and a very fine reticle when at maximum zoom for precision shooting.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Larry » 06 Sep 2021, 6:16 pm

BR I think you have it back to front. You posted a good set of pictures on the subject once before.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bladeracer » 06 Sep 2021, 6:18 pm

Larry wrote:BR I think you have it back to front. You posted a good set of pictures on the subject once before.


Not sure what you mean by back to front.
A first focal plane scope means that the reticle is in front of the zoom lenses, so it gets magnified the same as the view does. An SFP scope has the reticle behind the zoom lenses so only the view gets magnified, not the reticle.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Larry » 06 Sep 2021, 6:39 pm

I have a Athlon Argos 8-34 and on max zoom the hash marks are no bigger than my SFP NF BR much smaller than my NF NXS 8-32. I also have a Bushnell 6500 6-24 50 on my 22 and have no issues with the retical blocking out the super center dot on a 22 target the size of a ball point pen dot.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bladeracer » 06 Sep 2021, 7:08 pm

Larry wrote:I have a Athlon Argos 8-34 and on max zoom the hash marks are no bigger than my SFP NF BR much smaller than my NF NXS 8-32. I also have a Bushnell 6500 6-24 50 on my 22 and have no issues with the retical blocking out the super center dot on a 22 target the size of a ball point pen dot.


Have a look here - https://athlonoptics.com/product/rifle-scopes-argos-8-34x56-apmr-ffp-ir-mil/
You can clearly see that the reticle is _much_ thicker at higher magnification.
APMR-FFP-IR-MIL-PWR-834-1.png
APMR-FFP-IR-MIL-PWR-834-1.png (96.22 KiB) Viewed 4178 times

And from the manual.
Athlon Manual.JPG
Athlon Manual.JPG (106.36 KiB) Viewed 4178 times

I can't find any reference to the thickness of the reticle, but the hash marks at at .5Mil, and the reticle looks to be about one-tenth of that, so maybe .05Mil thick, so 5mm thick at 100m at 8-power? Which makes it 21.25mm thick at 100m at 34-power? Perhaps it's finer than that, but it still means the reticle is 4.25 times thicker at max zoom than it is at min zoom.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bladeracer » 06 Sep 2021, 7:18 pm

Larry wrote:I have a Athlon Argos 8-34 and on max zoom the hash marks are no bigger than my SFP NF BR much smaller than my NF NXS 8-32. I also have a Bushnell 6500 6-24 50 on my 22 and have no issues with the retical blocking out the super center dot on a 22 target the size of a ball point pen dot.


The NXS if it has the MOAR-T reticle is only .0625-minutes thick, one-sixteenth of a minute, or 1.8mm thick at 100m, and 18mm thick at 1000m.
https://www.nightforceoptics.com/au/technology/reticles/second-focal-plane/moar-t-reticle
Quite astonishing, and half the thickness of my mate's Athlon, but could you use this in the field trying to sight on a rabbit in the grass at 100m?
If it's the MOAR reticle it's between .100MoA and .160MoA (my mate's is .125MoA).
https://www.nightforceoptics.com/au/technology/reticles/second-focal-plane/moar-20-moa-reticle
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Post by bigpete » 06 Sep 2021, 7:24 pm

animalpest wrote:Everyone nowadays seems to over-scope their rifles. Plinking and shooting targets (not competition) with a .22LR does not need nor is it really desirable to have something up to 24x.

Shooting a .22 out to 100m and beyond is more about being able to judge wind etc and sticking some monster scope on a little .22 is just silly.


Yep. At the height of my shooting ability I could hit a coke can with a fair amount of regularity offhand out to 200m using a 4x,simply because I just practice ALL the time. Head shot rabbits at 100m ? Easy. Running fox at 160m ? Achievable. All with a 4x40. Damn i wish I could still shoot like that :(
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by bladeracer » 06 Sep 2021, 7:29 pm

bigpete wrote:
animalpest wrote:Everyone nowadays seems to over-scope their rifles. Plinking and shooting targets (not competition) with a .22LR does not need nor is it really desirable to have something up to 24x.

Shooting a .22 out to 100m and beyond is more about being able to judge wind etc and sticking some monster scope on a little .22 is just silly.


Yep. At the height of my shooting ability I could hit a coke can with a fair amount of regularity offhand out to 200m using a 4x,simply because I just practice ALL the time. Head shot rabbits at 100m ? Easy. Running fox at 160m ? Achievable. All with a 4x40. Damn i wish I could still shoot like that :(


Back when 4x32 and 4x40 were all we could realistically get, we learned to shoot very well indeed with them. Then I finally saved enough to buy a 4-12x40 scope, not just a 3-9x32 like most rich people were using ;-)
It cost as much as a new rifle, but it let me make some amazing shots on with my .222.

Been thoroughly spoiled ever since!
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Post by Apollo » 06 Sep 2021, 7:49 pm

Funny this topic came up.... At present my 1965 Brno Model 2 sports a March EP Zoom 36-55x... Yep, I've been doing a bit of target shooting and it's as accurate as a Custom Rifle.

Normally it wears a Zeiss 4-12x50mm and is a great Bunny Gun.

Spend what you can afford and enjoy it, also spend the time and find out what ammo it works best with... there can be a huge difference in accuracy.

Bunnies for me was it called "Winchester Super-X" old yellow box, newer stuff haven't used much but I have a heap (thousands) of the old stuff.

Target, well went through a couple of dozen brands and Elley Match (Black Box) was the best but expensive, next best was and still is Lapua Centre-X and I have done very well in the top class at 200 Yards with that and my "Rabbit Gun" as I call it...some people who spent thousands on a Custom Rimfire are a little put out. 200 Yard best target is 5 shots in 1/2". But... and that's a big BUT... 5 Targets at 200 Yards in a day and different heat and temperature plus wind can bring you down real quick.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Wm.Traynor » 06 Sep 2021, 7:56 pm

Well Tassietassie, you did say "any advice appreciated"
I regard scopes as a necessary evil. My eyesight is deteriorating. That's evil. The reticle adjustment mechanism of scopes fails after a while. That is a scope's evil. You will never know when it will fail but fail it will.
Therefore, my eyes need a scope to see clearly but they can let you down unexpectedly.
All of the above is by way of trying to prepare you for the inevitable, so that when it happens you won't go :crazy:
blaming yourself for poor groups. You need to know what to look for and be on your guard against. Me and a lot of others here can tell you and between us all we will make you an expert before you start :) ;) Just ask if you are interested. Anyone can tell you but right now I have to hit the shower.
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Re: Another Newbie another which scope....any advice appreci

Post by Tassietassie » 09 Sep 2021, 11:37 am

Many Many thanks for all the info and divergent opinions/ thoughts. Plenty to chew on there! Time and effort put in, is appreciated Cheers. :drinks:
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