Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by rampant » 29 Oct 2021, 11:53 am

Hi All,

Doing my head in with trying to calculate the most appropriate scope base for my Ruger 22LR. It will be for precision only and intend on dabbling with some ELR (out to ~300m optimistically) so I feel I need to maximise my scopes range of available elevation.

Ruger has 30MOA rail built-in, scope is a 1-8x24 with 100MOA elevation.

I've read that total cant/tilt shouldn't exceed half the scopes elevation (50MOA) otherwise you can't zero at 100M. However I expect to be zeroing (and shooting) at 50M. Does that mean the total cant/tilt should be even less than half the scopes elevation?

When I throw the ammo through Hornady's BC it reckons I'd need 59.2MOA adjustment to get out to 300M :wtf:

Based on the above it seems I should get a 0MOA scope base?
177 P30 357 686 9mm M34 22LR RPR 6mm CR (building!)
User avatar
rampant
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 7
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 29 Oct 2021, 2:02 pm

rampant wrote:Hi All,

Doing my head in with trying to calculate the most appropriate scope base for my Ruger 22LR. It will be for precision only and intend on dabbling with some ELR (out to ~300m optimistically) so I feel I need to maximise my scopes range of available elevation.

Ruger has 30MOA rail built-in, scope is a 1-8x24 with 100MOA elevation.

I've read that total cant/tilt shouldn't exceed half the scopes elevation (50MOA) otherwise you can't zero at 100M. However I expect to be zeroing (and shooting) at 50M. Does that mean the total cant/tilt should be even less than half the scopes elevation?

When I throw the ammo through Hornady's BC it reckons I'd need 59.2MOA adjustment to get out to 300M :wtf:

Based on the above it seems I should get a 0MOA scope base?


To do as you suggest you would need a scope with about 130-minutes of elevation adjustment. What scope are using?

Out to 300m, you only need around 45-minutes, from a 100m zero. If you have a scope with anything over 100MoA of elevation range you should be fine with a level rail. You need to allow for the amount of drop out to your zero, in addition to the drop for the extended range. All drop tables are specific to the zero distance. If you zero at 50m you might need 50-minutes of elevation to be able to dial out to a 300m zero. If you zero at 100m you might only need 40-minutes.

It depends a little on the ammo you use also. Although .22LR bullets can vary in shape, their BC's are so poor that by the time you are out to 300m or so, their velocities are a lot closer than they were at the muzzle.

I use an adjustable rail that allows me to mount the scope, and zero it, while adjusted at the very bottom of the turret.

These are my numbers.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15997#p275583
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by rampant » 29 Oct 2021, 3:04 pm

Thanks Bladeracer,

I've got an F1 NX8 I'm going to use on the Ruger. So it sounds like the built-in 30MOA rail with a 0MOA scope base would work but I probably wouldn't be able to 50M zero at the bottom of the turret so I'd lose that (~30MOA) elevation adjustment (drop table says 0MOA adjustment for 50M), giving then 70MOA elevation adjustment left to get out to 300M.

I'm going to throw some CCI Std 40g 1070, Fed 40g 1200 and Tenex through it and see what works best.
177 P30 357 686 9mm M34 22LR RPR 6mm CR (building!)
User avatar
rampant
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 7
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by rampant » 29 Oct 2021, 5:23 pm

@bladeracer did you replace the stock 30MOA rail on your RPR with a 0MOA one?
177 P30 357 686 9mm M34 22LR RPR 6mm CR (building!)
User avatar
rampant
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 7
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 30 Oct 2021, 1:18 pm

rampant wrote:@bladeracer did you replace the stock 30MOA rail on your RPR with a 0MOA one?


Nope, 30MoA is not enough. On another rifle I use an adjustable one-piece mount set at around 55-minutes. To mount a 10-40x56 for testing on the RPR and be able get a 50m zero I had to shim the scope up in the front ring, but that scope only has 42-minutes total elevation adjustment, my usual scopes have 105-minutes.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by SCJ429 » 30 Oct 2021, 8:37 pm

I use RWS R50 or R100 to shoot at 300. There would be some Eley ammo that will work well, Tenex could be a good place to start.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3213
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by Biscuits » 01 Nov 2021, 7:51 am

Are you sure your scope has 100 MoA of elevation? as it is a 1-8x24, I assume it has a 1-inch tube.100 MoA of elevation adjustment is a lot for a scope with a 1 inch tube.

Personally I would set a 50 meter/yard zero. You will find that for a (far) zero at 50, you will have a near zero at about 25. So you have an exact zero at 50 and something pretty close to zero at 25. Find a rail or rings so that you have about 10% of your total travel below the zero and 90% above the zero. Or 20/80% if you don't like that extreme. Scopes sometimes don't track accurately at the limit of their travel, that is why you don't want to have a zero at the limit of travel.

Once you go beyond 300m, you need a lot of additional elevation for a bit of extra distance.

You can use the Burris Signature rings to get a bit more elevation, but still that will only take you so far past 300. To go much further, you will need some serious elevation, you will need either an adjustable base, a March scope which is a couple of months pay for most people or a Charlie Tarac prism. Your life will be much more simple if you limit yourself to 300m.

I'll second the recommendation above for RWS R100. I don't get along with Eley ammo though. The R100 will be coming out the end about 100fps faster than any other match grade ammo I can think of.
Biscuits
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 130
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 01 Nov 2021, 8:12 am

Biscuits wrote:Are you sure your scope has 100 MoA of elevation? as it is a 1-8x24, I assume it has a 1-inch tube.100 MoA of elevation adjustment is a lot for a scope with a 1 inch tube.

Personally I would set a 50 meter/yard zero. You will find that for a (far) zero at 50, you will have a near zero at about 25. So you have an exact zero at 50 and something pretty close to zero at 25. Find a rail or rings so that you have about 10% of your total travel below the zero and 90% above the zero. Or 20/80% if you don't like that extreme. Scopes sometimes don't track accurately at the limit of their travel, that is why you don't want to have a zero at the limit of travel.

Once you go beyond 300m, you need a lot of additional elevation for a bit of extra distance.

You can use the Burris Signature rings to get a bit more elevation, but still that will only take you so far past 300. To go much further, you will need some serious elevation, you will need either an adjustable base, a March scope which is a couple of months pay for most people or a Charlie Tarac prism. Your life will be much more simple if you limit yourself to 300m.

I'll second the recommendation above for RWS R100. I don't get along with Eley ammo though. The R100 will be coming out the end about 100fps faster than any other match grade ammo I can think of.


Actually, I hear a lot that you only get big elevation from a fat tube, but I haven't found that to be correct. It's more about magnification. My 35mm 10-40x56 only has 42-minutes total, my 25mm 4.5-18x40's have 105-minutes. When the maximum zoom is high you need to physically move the internals a long way. If maximum zoom is only 8-power, I would expect heaps of adjustment, but due to the lower magnification they often drop the precision of adjustment back to half- or full-minute clicks.

As you near the extreme ends of adjustment, the internal tube starts to foul against the outer tube. To get maximum possible adjustment you need to centre the windage adjustment, then zero the scope there by using the base or mount, and leave the windage centred. If you mount a scope and have to zero the windage 20-minutes from centre, it will start binding well before you reach maximum travel.

To be able to reach 500m I use a 100m zero. A 50m zero only gives me enough travel for 300m adjustment. I never make adjustments for wind. My zero is two clicks up from the bottom of the turret giving me the full 105-minutes of adjustment, but I can't zero it any closer than 100m so any close shooting requires a low hold.
Last edited by bladeracer on 01 Nov 2021, 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 01 Nov 2021, 8:16 am

Eley Tenex doesn't shoot great for me in anything either. Eley Edge is their best for me, but is discontinued. I bought a few thousand rounds of a dealer's remaining stock of Edge. But the "new" Eley Team may be the same ammo rebranded. I have some for testing, and now the lockdown is finally over I can make a trip to the big smoke to collect it.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by scoot » 01 Nov 2021, 5:22 pm

If you use the burris "signature" rings with offset inserts you will be able to change out more or less moa to suit. If you get it close to the Max / min range you want you can fine tune by spacing the rings closer or farther apart. This will change the overall elevation baseline. Think of it like a ramp, where the height difference between front ring and rear ring ( with inserts) is your overall height. The farther apart the rings are the less steep the ramp is.
Might be enough to get you closer at 50 & 300 than a fixed 30 or 50 moa base.
User avatar
scoot
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 254
South Australia

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by Biscuits » 01 Nov 2021, 9:34 pm

bladeracer wrote:Actually, I hear a lot that you only get big elevation from a fat tube, but I haven't found that to be correct. It's more about magnification. My 35mm 10-40x56 only has 42-minutes total, my 25mm 4.5-18x40's have 105-minutes. When the maximum zoom is high you need to physically move the internals a long way. If maximum zoom is only 8-power, I would expect heaps of adjustment, but due to the lower magnification they often drop the precision of adjustment back to half- or full-minute clicks.


Yes, I was thinking that this may be due to the scope being low power. The erector assembly inside the scope will still need to move by the same angle, so I assume the length of the erector assembly is shorter in a low power scope so that it can move a greater angle in a smaller tube, without a clash. I don't have any low power scopes, so I've never investigated further.




I don't think I would be a fan of a 100m zero. I only need about 1.4 milliradian of elevation to go from a 50 yard (the range I zero at is in yards) zero to get to 100. Remember with a 50 zero, you get an approximate 25 near zero when the bullet is on the up trajectory. Giving up a 25/50 zero, which is where you will do a lot of your work, seems like a lot to give up to get only a bit of extra elevation on your scope.

The furthest I have gone with a 22LR is 450 metres and I had to holdover into the solid black line/unmarked part of the reticle. I'd need to check my logbook but from memory it was about 26 milliradian of elevation. I'm planning on buying either a Coldshot or WR Precision elevating base to push it further.
Biscuits
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 130
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 01 Nov 2021, 10:32 pm

Biscuits wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Actually, I hear a lot that you only get big elevation from a fat tube, but I haven't found that to be correct. It's more about magnification. My 35mm 10-40x56 only has 42-minutes total, my 25mm 4.5-18x40's have 105-minutes. When the maximum zoom is high you need to physically move the internals a long way. If maximum zoom is only 8-power, I would expect heaps of adjustment, but due to the lower magnification they often drop the precision of adjustment back to half- or full-minute clicks.


Yes, I was thinking that this may be due to the scope being low power. The erector assembly inside the scope will still need to move by the same angle, so I assume the length of the erector assembly is shorter in a low power scope so that it can move a greater angle in a smaller tube, without a clash. I don't have any low power scopes, so I've never investigated further.




I don't think I would be a fan of a 100m zero. I only need about 1.4 milliradian of elevation to go from a 50 yard (the range I zero at is in yards) zero to get to 100. Remember with a 50 zero, you get an approximate 25 near zero when the bullet is on the up trajectory. Giving up a 25/50 zero, which is where you will do a lot of your work, seems like a lot to give up to get only a bit of extra elevation on your scope.

The furthest I have gone with a 22LR is 450 metres and I had to holdover into the solid black line/unmarked part of the reticle. I'd need to check my logbook but from memory it was about 26 milliradian of elevation. I'm planning on buying either a Coldshot or WR Precision elevating base to push it further.



A 100m zero means you have to hold around 100mm low at 50m, and about 35mm low at 25m, or use a different rifle for close work.

Shooting today with HV ammo I was zeroed 45mm high at 50m, and holding the top of the duplex post (which is the 600yd holdover mark for .223 zeroed at 100yd with a generic unidentufied load) about 100mm above my target at 183m. I hope it's not too gusty tomorrow so I can see how many I can put on the 5" gong without missing :-)

This is with $40 bricks of Highland ammo.
Last edited by bladeracer on 02 Nov 2021, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by Biscuits » 02 Nov 2021, 12:18 am

^ Always interested to hear what long range 22 rimfire shooters are doing, bladeracer. Is you adjustable scope base an Era Tac?

I considered that, but it ties me to a particular scope tube diameter. In my case, my 22 has a 30mm tube scope, whereas all my others are 34mm tubes. I'm reluctant to cough up for an expensive base which ties me to a (relative to the other scopes) a lower cost scope. Hence my thought on getting a Coldshot or WR precision base, which goes on the picatinny rail and under the existing rings. It will mean that my cheek rest is too low, but I can put something temporary to fix that. Hopefully if I only put this on when I am doing ELR, the zero won't change much when I take the scope on and off. I've only used R100 for ELR rimfire. I must try CCI Velocitor and see if what you lose on it being non-match ammo, you gain on higher velocity.
Biscuits
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 130
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 02 Nov 2021, 9:14 am

Biscuits wrote:^ Always interested to hear what long range 22 rimfire shooters are doing, bladeracer. Is you adjustable scope base an Era Tac?

I considered that, but it ties me to a particular scope tube diameter. In my case, my 22 has a 30mm tube scope, whereas all my others are 34mm tubes. I'm reluctant to cough up for an expensive base which ties me to a (relative to the other scopes) a lower cost scope. Hence my thought on getting a Coldshot or WR precision base, which goes on the picatinny rail and under the existing rings. It will mean that my cheek rest is too low, but I can put something temporary to fix that. Hopefully if I only put this on when I am doing ELR, the zero won't change much when I take the scope on and off. I've only used R100 for ELR rimfire. I must try CCI Velocitor and see if what you lose on it being non-match ammo, you gain on higher velocity.


The first mount I bought was something like $140 from the UK, but I soon found the same mount unbranded for $40 direct from China. I don't recall the brand off-hand, though I will have posted about it here several times. It is a one-piece ring mount that sits atop a base. It uses a pair of pivot pins on the sides at the front to zero your windage, and elevation is adjusted by two screws at the rear, one raises the rear of the mount, the other locks it down against the first. (Set up the windage first before locking down the elevation or you will have to back off the elevation screw every time you adjust the windage screws). It's never moved and holds zero when I swap on a shorter-range scope. It would be very easy to make or have somebody make for you.

The easiest way to make these is to buy bulk pic rails, I think I was paying about $60 for ten rails in the shorter lengths, the 300mm are more expensive. Put one in a mill and mill it off flat and level. Put others in the mill upside down and mill those off to whatever angle you need, then bolt them to the first one. If you're going extreme you'll need a raiser between the two, which can be 6061 bar stock to suit.

If you have already calculated the required angle (based on your zero distance and available scope adjustment, you can set the mount very close with calipers. But windage requires shooting to zero. I think I pulled mine off nearly a dozen times for adjustment when I set it up, but have never adjusted it since.

There are ludicrously expensive mounts that are click adjustable on the fly, but unnecessary for a .22LR out to 500m. A decent scope has enough adjustment to shoot .22LR out to 500m, which is about as far as is practical, I think, due to the .22LR bullet's horrendous ballistic coefficient.

1000m is achievable with some .22LR ammo, but not with any degree of repeatability, in my opinion. Okay for informal plinking at at something like an old bus perhaps :-)

I haven't seriously played with HV past about 240m, mainly because the only one I've tested that comes close to consistent sub-minute at 100m is discontinued.

The BC of heeled bullets is so low that launching them much higher than the sound barrier just means they dump their extra velocity ridiculously quickly.

One thing you'll love about coming home is no ammo limits, you can buy bricks and even cases of whatever ammo you can find for testing.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by Biscuits » 03 Nov 2021, 4:42 am

^ I'm leaning towards one of the expensive adjustable bases as the scope on my 22 only has 15 milirad of available elevation and I could also use the base on a centerfire with more recoil. The total elevation travel on my 22 scope is about 29 milirad, even if I put in a more highly canted rail, so this won't take me much past 450m where I used I previously used 26 milirad total elevation, achieved using holdover. Also I don't have a workshop ;)

I'll be going to Sydney mid-November and plan to pick up one of these adjustable bases, which are made in Australia, $795:
https://watersrifleman.com/elr-steel/

From what I have seen of the design, it should be slightly harder to adjust but slightly more rigid than the US made Cold Shot base, which is a similar price:
https://heritage-arms.com/product-categ ... ope-bases/

I have a trip to a 2000 metre range in Scotland next April. If it works out, this base could do double duty on my 6.5 Creedmoor which I predict will run out of elevation at about 1800 metres.

One thing I have found, is that the ballistic calculator firing solution only works if you put your own BC in based on past DOPE, the BC number on the box/website doesn't give the right results.
Biscuits
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 130
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 03 Nov 2021, 8:53 am

Biscuits wrote:^ I'm leaning towards one of the expensive adjustable bases as the scope on my 22 only has 15 milirad of available elevation and I could also use the base on a centerfire with more recoil. The total elevation travel on my 22 scope is about 29 milirad, even if I put in a more highly canted rail, so this won't take me much past 450m where I used I previously used 26 milirad total elevation, achieved using holdover. Also I don't have a workshop ;)

I'll be going to Sydney mid-November and plan to pick up one of these adjustable bases, which are made in Australia, $795:
https://watersrifleman.com/elr-steel/

From what I have seen of the design, it should be slightly harder to adjust but slightly more rigid than the US made Cold Shot base, which is a similar price:
https://heritage-arms.com/product-categ ... ope-bases/

I have a trip to a 2000 metre range in Scotland next April. If it works out, this base could do double duty on my 6.5 Creedmoor which I predict will run out of elevation at about 1800 metres.

One thing I have found, is that the ballistic calculator firing solution only works if you put your own BC in based on past DOPE, the BC number on the box/website doesn't give the right results.


Yep, I have much more useful things to throw $800 at than a scope mount, like ammo :-)

You don't need a workshop :-)
If you don't have a mill you can mill it in a lathe, if you don't have a lathe you can use a hacksaw and a file.

15Mil is only 50MoA, which is pretty limited. On a 30-minute RPR base you won't get a 50m zero with it.

On the Creedmoor with a BC of .700 a 100MoA or 30Mil scope should allow you to range between about 1000m and 2000m, if you zero at 1000m at the bottom of the turret on a canted rail.

Definitely - you must take measurements in the real world and adjust the theoretical to match. Ideally you want to measure velocity and trajectory at different distances.

2000m would be awesome!
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by Biscuits » 04 Nov 2021, 7:53 pm

Will be interesting to see how the 22LR goes at 500+ metres. 450m impacts on the target seemed to be moderately repeatable, esp given that I was holding over into an unmarked part of the reticle... or actually what I was doing was picking a ground feature well above the target and aiming at that with the lowest hash mark in my reticle, to hit the target which was another 6 milirad below the ground feature.

Will see how the 6.5CM goes at 1600-2000m. I'm wondering if it will be similar to when my 308 goes long range, for a 308. My ballistic calculator says the 308 is subsonic at about 950 metres. It is quite accurate to about 1000m. The furthest I have shot the 308 is around 1300 metres and for the same aim point, same environmentals, the impacts can be anywhere in a cone about 3 MoA across. 6.5CM could be similar, just further out. Obv you need to be very accurate with your rangefinding as the bullet is dropping maybe 3cm per metre at extended range, so a few metres out on your ranging equals a miss on the target.

This was my 22 on my 450m day; though for the 450m target I fired it prone.
Image
Biscuits
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 130
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 04 Nov 2021, 8:21 pm

Biscuits wrote:Will be interesting to see how the 22LR goes at 500+ metres. 450m impacts on the target seemed to be moderately repeatable, esp given that I was holding over into an unmarked part of the reticle... or actually what I was doing was picking a ground feature well above the target and aiming at that with the lowest hash mark in my reticle, to hit the target which was another 6 milirad below the ground feature.

Will see how the 6.5CM goes at 1600-2000m. I'm wondering if it will be similar to when my 308 goes long range, for a 308. My ballistic calculator says the 308 is subsonic at about 950 metres. It is quite accurate to about 1000m. The furthest I have shot the 308 is around 1300 metres and for the same aim point, same environmentals, the impacts can be anywhere in a cone about 3 MoA across. 6.5CM could be similar, just further out. Obv you need to be very accurate with your rangefinding as the bullet is dropping maybe 3cm per metre at extended range, so a few metres out on your ranging equals a miss on the target.

This was my 22 on my 450m day; though for the 450m target I fired it prone.
Image


Beautiful country there!
What region is that?

Generally, you'll range the target, set your scope, then adjust the theory to reality by walking your reticle onto your bullet splashes. So your range finding doesn't need to be meter-precise, just enough to get you onto the "paper" so you can adjust by fire. Rangefinders generally use a conical laser beam as far as I'm aware. I'd have to check but I think mine are something like 100mm across at 100m, so at 2000m the laser beam is reflecting back off a huge area of terrain (in 3D).

When I first got a rangefinder I set up a target at 100m, then aimed the device around the target to determine whether the reticle was correctly centred, and the size of the beam. Trying to lase 5" steel gongs much past 100m is not easy without a tripod mount to hold the rangefinder steady.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by Biscuits » 04 Nov 2021, 10:27 pm

As usual with many things, chucking money at it solves the problem ;) Part of the challenge for me is getting a first or second round hit (very difficult on a 22LR, but possible on a centerfire), so for that you need an accurate range. My rangefinder is a Delta 9x42 binoculars which has a practical maximum range on metallic targets of about 2km. This current generation of rangefinders can be set to overcome the uncertainty caused by beam spread by ranging the closest return, the furthest return or a continuous scan. Based on the terrain, you should normally be able to get the correct range using one of those scan modes. For a metallic target on a hill, the strongest return will be from the target and even if it ranges the hill behind the target, that will only be a metre or two of error. I normally put the range with the binoculars put on top of the scope for stability.

SIG has come out with the Kilo 10000, 10000 yard (sounds better than 9000 metre) rangefinder with a very narrow beam... up there in price though and for sure you would need to mount it on a tripod to range anything at that distance.

That range is in Wales. It's also a working farm; guidelines is not to shoot within about 3m of any sheep ;) Another view below from a different firing point, halfway up the hill is 950 metres which is the furthest target from this firing point. There is another hill behind so you can fall back to that hill and engage the same targets for a maximum distance of about a mile. Those two suppressors will have to go when I return to Aus, which is a bit of a shame :(

Image
Biscuits
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 130
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 05 Nov 2021, 6:04 pm

My better rangefinder does 1400m under ideal conditions. I carry a smaller 800m one on my belt all the time as it's a handy monocular to have on hand.

I just saw this.
https://youtu.be/Q-dk38lRlg0
Apparently they shoot 3600m in Scotland too!

It's too lumpy around here so I haven't found anywhere handy to shoot more than about 1000m. If I talk to another neighbour, I could stretch to maybe 1500m, but I'd be shooting across a deep valley with strong cross winds. I've never discussed it with them as I don't think it'd be viable. You don't see any bullet splash when you hit grassy cattle pasture, and the large area of bush in the valley makes it impossible to walk your shots out to the target. I can get out to 800m, shooting steeply down into the bottom of the valley, but then I'd have to jump straight to about 1400m. Very difficult without microphones to triangulate impacts from sound alone.

Another place would be shooting across to another property, but over a pine plantation, and plantations are never going to give permission for that. And it's still pasture, so no splashes.

I always keep my eyes open for viable spots when I'm out and about.

No sheep around here, but this was my audience yesterday :-)
Attachments
1042021194015.jpg
1042021194015.jpg (167.18 KiB) Viewed 3086 times
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by Biscuits » 06 Nov 2021, 1:55 am

Spotting impacts is tricky; you really need sand or dirt around the target so you can spot a miss. And paint on the target to get a bit of spray of paint for hits. Wet grass would just end up being throwing lead downrange and almost relying on luck.

Brexit has really messed up U.K. shooters shooting in continental Europe. Before there was a European Firearms Pass… a Europe wide licence on top of your home licence. Now that is gone for U.K. shooters, so if you want to drive to Italy, you need to get a visitor permit not just for Italy but all the countries you go through on the way. You can’t fly, because you can only take 5kg of ammo by air, including the container weight.
Biscuits
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 130
New South Wales

Re: Missing trajectory physics (and brain cells)

Post by bladeracer » 06 Nov 2021, 7:55 am

Biscuits wrote:Spotting impacts is tricky; you really need sand or dirt around the target so you can spot a miss. And paint on the target to get a bit of spray of paint for hits. Wet grass would just end up being throwing lead downrange and almost relying on luck.

Brexit has really messed up U.K. shooters shooting in continental Europe. Before there was a European Firearms Pass… a Europe wide licence on top of your home licence. Now that is gone for U.K. shooters, so if you want to drive to Italy, you need to get a visitor permit not just for Italy but all the countries you go through on the way. You can’t fly, because you can only take 5kg of ammo by air, including the container weight.


It's a bit hard I think for most Aussies to imagine just how tiny European countries are :-)
The entire European Theater of Operations of World War Two could've been fought within Australia, including the "vast distances" of the Russian Front. I've never looked at it, but it occurs to me that the entire Pacific Theatre of Operations on land could probably have occurred within Victoria.

I knew a guy in Holland who did his weekly shopping in Belgium because the prices were so much cheaper.

When we would drive from Perth to Gippsland, it's the equivalent of driving from London to Stalingrad. In 2006 I rode over 2800km in 30hrs, that's London to Moscow :-)

To me, Europe makes no sense at all :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12688
Victoria


Back to top
 
Return to Scopes, sights and optics