New Vortex scope for US Army

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New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Don_Stevenson » 02 Feb 2022, 12:13 pm

Anyone else see this?

Vortex new "Fire Control" for the Next Gen US Army rifle and light support weapon.

Integrated ballistics, environmentals, head up display with graphic overlay over the retical, laser rangefinder and designator module on a 1-8x optic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7NLMU1JZkY

Looks like a very swank bit of kit which will obviously never make it to the civvy market in this form and which must be eye wateringly expensive.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 02 Feb 2022, 1:04 pm

Aren't the Americans going 6.8 calibre in their new rifle?
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by wanneroo » 02 Feb 2022, 1:09 pm

Wow, yeah lots of features there, I'll have to watch that later.

I'm sure Vortex will put it out on the market for the regular folks. A lot of these companies want military contracts because it's a selling point for the public, many people figure if it's good enough for the Army, it's good enough for them. Then the company can charge more and that's where they make their profits.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Don_Stevenson » 02 Feb 2022, 1:18 pm

I gather that some of the features might be the sort of thing the US Army doesn't want falling into enemy hands.

In the podcast they mention that they will likely release future civvy products that are missing some features either because they aren't needed or because of cost etc.

And yes they are going to 6.8mm for the new rifle and LSW.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by No1Mk3 » 02 Feb 2022, 3:59 pm

wanneroo wrote:Wow, yeah lots of features there, I'll have to watch that later.

I'm sure Vortex will put it out on the market for the regular folks. A lot of these companies want military contracts because it's a selling point for the public, many people figure if it's good enough for the Army, it's good enough for them. Then the company can charge more and that's where they make their profits.


G'day wanneroo,
Might be the case for your market, but ITARS would prohibit exports to anyone else as the scope would be on the US Munitions List. Vortex would need to modify the design somehow to avoid the red tape involved in exporting but even then the hassles many exporters cop from various Govt. Departments means they simply refuse to export and keep all sales internal with many even restricting to CONUS only. (That would piss me off greatly if I was Alaskan or Hawaiian) Cheers.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Feb 2022, 4:42 pm

Don_Stevenson wrote:I gather that some of the features might be the sort of thing the US Army doesn't want falling into enemy hands.

In the podcast they mention that they will likely release future civvy products that are missing some features either because they aren't needed or because of cost etc.

And yes they are going to 6.8mm for the new rifle and LSW.


Seems strange to go out on their own in that way. NATO is 308 and 223?

Or am I about to be corrected?

Edit: https://www.theoutdoorwire.com/releases ... e65398d1b1
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 02 Feb 2022, 5:01 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Don_Stevenson wrote:I gather that some of the features might be the sort of thing the US Army doesn't want falling into enemy hands.

In the podcast they mention that they will likely release future civvy products that are missing some features either because they aren't needed or because of cost etc.

And yes they are going to 6.8mm for the new rifle and LSW.


Seems strange to go out on their own in that way. NATO is 308 and 223?

Or am I about to be corrected?

Edit: https://www.theoutdoorwire.com/releases ... e65398d1b1


No, Nato is 5.56x45 and 7.62x51. There are some differences between them and 223/308.

The videos I have seen show the Americans want a bit more firepower than the 5.56 can offer. With modern body amour what it is the small 5.56 lacks penetrative power and that longer range take down power.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Feb 2022, 5:27 pm

Yes, have been aware of the minor differences for many years. It was just easier to say 308 and 223.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/tru ... available/

Compromise. One round for everything. Must have something over 7mm. 7mm is pretty efficient ballistics wise.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by wanneroo » 03 Feb 2022, 4:32 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day wanneroo,
Might be the case for your market, but ITARS would prohibit exports to anyone else as the scope would be on the US Munitions List. Vortex would need to modify the design somehow to avoid the red tape involved in exporting but even then the hassles many exporters cop from various Govt. Departments means they simply refuse to export and keep all sales internal with many even restricting to CONUS only. (That would piss me off greatly if I was Alaskan or Hawaiian) Cheers.


Maybe so. My only knowledge about ITAR and scopes has to do with night optics, which I use on a regular basis.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by wanneroo » 03 Feb 2022, 4:36 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Don_Stevenson wrote:I gather that some of the features might be the sort of thing the US Army doesn't want falling into enemy hands.

In the podcast they mention that they will likely release future civvy products that are missing some features either because they aren't needed or because of cost etc.

And yes they are going to 6.8mm for the new rifle and LSW.


Seems strange to go out on their own in that way. NATO is 308 and 223?

Or am I about to be corrected?

Edit: https://www.theoutdoorwire.com/releases ... e65398d1b1


The US Army is playing around with a lot of different cartridges and options and it remains to be seen what will replace the 5.56 round.

In fact the US military has adopted so many different cartridges, optics, firearms, etc in recent times it's hard to keep up with what is going on.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Don_Stevenson » 03 Feb 2022, 7:25 pm

The tender requirement for NGSW was 6.8mm and a certain velocity and beyond that the manufacturers had freedom to come up with a solution.

If the US goes to 6.8 then over time NATO and probably Australia will follow.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by str8shutr » 03 Feb 2022, 11:25 pm

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Last edited by str8shutr on 03 Feb 2022, 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by str8shutr » 03 Feb 2022, 11:28 pm

Watched the optic video. Some seriously cool capabilities. The onboard range finder, GPS, altimeter, inclination and ballistics package will sell itself once it gets to the open market, I'd expect.

The 6.8 mm cartridge reassures me that I'm not missing out because I haven't got a 6.5 CM in the safe. Bide my time and see where the GI Joes get to.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Biscuits » 04 Feb 2022, 9:38 am

If it goes the way of the 5.56 and 7.62, then the 6.8 will become the standard NATO round. It would simplify logistics as it would be the same cartridge for grunts, the designated marksman rifle and for the machine gun. Only the long range snipers would have something different, a .338 Lapua or some dude on Youtube even said a 300 or 338 Norma magnum, which a Google says they are actually thinking about. I can't really see the 300 Norma happening due to short barrel life and needing a 338 Lapua size bolt face.
Last edited by Biscuits on 04 Feb 2022, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by bladeracer » 04 Feb 2022, 9:41 am

Biscuits wrote:If it goes the way of the 5.57 and 7.62, then the 6.8 will become the standard NATO round. It would simplify logistics as it would be the same cartridge for grunts, the designated marksman rifle and for the machine gun. Only the long range snipers would have something different, a .338 Lapua or some dude on Youtube even said a 300 or 338 Norma magnum, which a Google says they are actually thinking about. I can't really see the 300 Norma happening due to short barrel life and needing a 338 Lapua size bolt face.


They already use .300WinMag which I've never understood, you have to carry so much more rifle for a tiny step up in range and energy over the .308.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Biscuits » 04 Feb 2022, 9:51 am

^ I guess with the 300 Win Mag, the rifle isn't that much bigger than a 7.62 and it will still have 300 metres more effective range, less windage and less elevation with standard ammo and the rifle isn't so heavy you cannot fire offhand unsupported up in a pinch. Once you go bigger than that, the rifle is massive.

---
There are several videos on possible 6.8 cartridges, some quite exotic ones including plastic cases, caseless etc etc.

I've thought for a while that scopes are ripe for a bit of technology, eg everyone complains you cannot see the cross hairs on a FFP scope when it is zoomed out, whereas the subtensions on a SFP scope are only correct at one magnification. What if you had a digital reticle which changed as you zoomed in and out? What if you could link that to your phone, Kestrel or ballistic computer and have it show your firing solution in the reticle?
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by str8shutr » 05 Feb 2022, 12:07 am

The tech on that Vortex scope has so much capability, it wouldn't really care what round it was putting on target (within reason).

Impressive stuff.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by womble » 06 Feb 2022, 2:00 am

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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by on_one_wheel » 06 Feb 2022, 5:31 pm

One things for sure, eventually that technology will filter its way into the civil market. Doubt I'd ever buy something like that though, as cool as it, I prefer to keep things simple.
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Re: New Vortex scope for US Army

Post by Don_Stevenson » 07 Feb 2022, 8:11 am

Biscuits wrote:
I've thought for a while that scopes are ripe for a bit of technology, eg everyone complains you cannot see the cross hairs on a FFP scope when it is zoomed out, whereas the subtensions on a SFP scope are only correct at one magnification. What if you had a digital reticle which changed as you zoomed in and out? What if you could link that to your phone, Kestrel or ballistic computer and have it show your firing solution in the reticle?


Steiner has had an optic that is linked to a kestrel/rangefinder for a while now. They offer it on the Sako TRG but its mega pricey.

I think over the next 5 years we will start to see this smart tech, head up display stuff filter into civilian gear.
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