How necessary is a Picatinny rail on a rimfire rifle?

[jwai86]

I get that all the tacticool kids like mounting optics onto Picatinny rails these days, but is there an appreciable benefit to using that mounting system over dovetail mounts when it comes to attaching a scope onto a rimfire rifle?

[bladeracer]

I get that all the tacticool kids like mounting optics onto Picatinny rails these days, but is there an appreciable benefit to using that mounting system over dovetail mounts when it comes to attaching a scope onto a rimfire rifle?

I have some dovetails but I find the scopes rarely hold zero when dismounting and remounting them, pic rails are great.
If you're leaving the scope on it doesn't matter, provided it has some sort of recoil stop to stop the mounts from moving under recoil.
On my Henry because of the pot metal receiver cover I don't crank down on the mounts, the scope will end up popping off the front of the dovetail after a few dozen rounds. If it doesn't have a hole for a recoil stud or a slot for a bar you'll have to tighten the clamps up very tight.

Some places make pic rails with built-in aperture rear sights to give you the best of both worlds.

[on_one_wheel]

100% necessary if tacticool is the goal. Other than that the little dovetail is good enough for my rimmies.

I've only got 2 pic rails, one under a ss shotgun barrel, it's a great mount for torches and stuff, I run a laser there. And the other on the .243 because tacticool
Picatinnys are great for high recoil, heavy optics, and quick change applications, as blade pointed out, they're more likely to hold a zero between swapps.

[Larry]

No problems on my dovetail mount on the 22. I run a heavy scope and it has never moved at all always on zero.

[bigpete]

Not necessary at all

[bigrich]

it depends on the qaulity of the dovetail mounts to a certain degree , but that's all i've ever used . steel leupold mounts are good

but i also have some good alloy semi permanant style on my weihrauch 22lr . they don't move

[Blr243]

Most Thermal scopes have a mount / cradle whatever u call it which needs a pic rail to grab onto , so every rifle I have with the intention of night hunting wears pic rails........ tacti what ? Hopefully I won’t soon start painting camo on my face , wearing black, go hunting wearing looped leather belts to hold ammo, putting grunted hunter stickers on my Ute , rolling around on the ground and wanting to get involved in ipsc

[Blr243]

Most Thermal scopes have a mount / cradle whatever u call it which needs a pic rail to grab onto , so every rifle I have with the intention of night hunting wears pic rails........ tacti what ? Hopefully I won’t soon start painting camo on my face , wearing black, go hunting wearing looped leather belts to hold ammo, putting grunted hunter stickers on my Ute , rolling around on the ground and wanting to get involved in ipsc

[bigrich]

Most Thermal scopes have a mount / cradle whatever u call it which needs a pic rail to grab onto , so every rifle I have with the intention of night hunting wears pic rails........ tacti what ? Hopefully I won’t soon start painting camo on my face , wearing black, go hunting wearing looped leather belts to hold ammo, putting grunted hunter stickers on my Ute , rolling around on the ground and wanting to get involved in ipsc

that's a funny mental picture blr........

[JimTom]

Mate there is nothing wrong with dovetail mounts at all. I saying that, I have pic on most of my rifles.

[jwai86]

If you're leaving the scope on it doesn't matter, provided it has some sort of recoil stop to stop the mounts from moving under recoil.

Recoil stop? That's the first I've heard about them on scope rings or mounts.

[Larry]

He means the ridges on the pic rail act as a recoil stop.

[No1_49er]

He means the ridges on the pic rail act as a recoil stop.

Not necessarily. The original mounts for a Ruger No1 have recoil lugs. No pic rails there, or needed.
And, IIRC, a lot of the early Brnos had same.

[bladeracer]

If you're leaving the scope on it doesn't matter, provided it has some sort of recoil stop to stop the mounts from moving under recoil.

Recoil stop? That's the first I've heard about them on scope rings or mounts.

Rings will sometimes have a stud sticking out the bottom to impinge against a hole or something in the receiver to stop the ring from sliding forward under recoil. With pic rails the rings will often have the clamp bolt pass through below the mount to fit into one of the grooves for the same purpose. Sometimes the dovetails on the receiver are cut to a blank stop so you can mount the ring against that, but a lug or bar is better.

[bladeracer]

He means the ridges on the pic rail act as a recoil stop.

On the pic rail that is the purpose for the cuts, but before pic rails they used simple dowel pins as recoil studs.

Weaver rails are slightly different in the groove layout, I have some Weaver rings that the bolt is to fat to fit standard pic rail grooves.

[Bravs]

My experience, a pic on a rifle you can place any scopes on it. A rifle with no pic, you need a specific scope to put on it. Also, with a pic rail you have a lot of play room to where you want to put the scope(more to the front or to the back).

[Larry]

He means the ridges on the pic rail act as a recoil stop.

[jwai86]

Sometimes I see Picatinny rails with an MOA rating. I vaguely understand that they allow for additional MOA adjustment, but I'm unclear as to how they do that, and what purposes they are relevant for.

[bladeracer]

Sometimes I see Picatinny rails with an MOA rating. I vaguely understand that they allow for additional MOA adjustment, but I'm unclear as to how they do that, and what purposes they are relevant for.

The rail is usually level to the bore axis, a canted rail is canted upwards at the rear to point the scope down at the ground - it basically does the same thing as an old-school military leaf rear sight. The rail doesn't give you more adjustment, it moves the distances that your scope adjustment works within.

On most centrefire high-velocities a flat rail is fine out to about 1000m with decent scope adjustment.
When you start using high-mag scopes that have very limited adjustment then you can make use of canted rails, 20-minute being the most common. You can do similar by shimming the rings but risk damaging the scope. 20-minutes is a third of a degree.

On a .22LR or other low-velocity cartridges it becomes more important even at relatively close distances. To zero a subsonic .22LR at 50m requires around 8-minutes of elevation (about 5" of drop from the muzzle), at 100m it requires around 17-minutes (about 20" of drop), so you burn up a lot of your adjustment just in zeroing a low-velocity cartridge. In comparison, the 147gn in 6.5x55mm only needs about 1.25-minutes at 50m and 2.7-minutes a 100m.

When you zero a scope on a flat rail, your scope is pointing almost directly at your target. Out to about 50m you will have to dial the scope up a little to allow for the amount of drop the bullet has, probably 10-minutes or less. Some rifles have a little cant in the receiver built-in so even a flat rail will have the barrel pointing slightly upwards so you can zero close to the centre of your scope adjustment. If your scope only has 20-MoA of adjustment each side of centre you might not be able to zero a low-velocity cartridge (like CCI Quiet) out to 100m at all on a flat rail. If you put a 30-minute rail on, then you won't be able to zero it at 50m, but you will be able to zero it at 100m.

On a high-velocity rifle, if your scope has a total of 80-minutes of adjustment (40 up, and 40 down from centre), with a flat rail you can zero at 100m and dial out to about 450m (after zeroing you probably have about 35-minutes of up adjustment left). If you zero at 200m you can still only dial out to about 450m, nothing has changed except that you used up more of your adjustment to zero at longer distance.

A 30-minute rail will still let you zero at 100m, but you can probably dial out to somewhere around 700m.
If you use a 60-minute rail (your scope is pointing one-degree down at the muzzle) you can no longer zero at 100m, but you can probably zero at about 300m and dial out to about 1000m (I'd have to run it through a calculator to give you more accurate numbers).

If you use a 120-minute rail (two-degrees downward) you probably won't be able to zero closer than 800m, but can dial out to about 1500m. But if you wanted to take a 400m shot at something you would have to hold about 2.5m low.

I have no idea why anybody would choose to zero a high-velocity rifle closer than 200m (100m shots are only about 40mm to 80mm high). Choose a rail that lets you zero at 200m at the bottom of your scope elevation, then you have the full scope adjustment to use in the field.

And choose a scope that gives you plenty of adjustment, more than 100-minutes total is good. My scopes have 105MoA, which gets me out to 1100m or more with flat rails on high-velocity rifles. I could use a 50MoA rail and still zero at 200m but extend my range to around 1500m. A BDC reticle gives you a little more range when you've run out of adjustment - mine give me another 15MoA for another 100m or so.

[jwai86]

I'm guessing that a rail with additional MOA won't do much for a .22 LR that won't be shooting very much beyond 50 metres?

[bladeracer]

I'm guessing that a rail with additional MOA won't do much for a .22 LR that won't be shooting very much beyond 50 metres?

I can't think of any value to it, no.
The Ruger Precision Rimfire comes with a 30-minute rail, so when you mount a scope and boresight it, you'll be looking about 400mm low at 50m. Mounting my 10-40x56 on it I can't zero it at 50m unless I shim the rings as it only has 42-minutes of adjustment total.

[jwai86]

This afternoon, I did some idle Googling for who sells Picatinny rails in Australia. Some of the rails weren't that cheap when you then need to buy scope rings that fit to them. Unless the rifle already came with a rail when you bought it, I'm not sure that the additional cost of fitting one is worthwhile.

[jwai86]

There are several manufacturers that produce Picatinny rails for CZ rimfire rifles, including CZUB themselves. Is there any significant difference between each manufacturer's rails other than varying rail lengths and cant for additional MOA?

[bladeracer]

There are several manufacturers that produce Picatinny rails for CZ rimfire rifles, including CZUB themselves. Is there any significant difference between each manufacturer's rails other than varying rail lengths and cant for additional MOA?

If they're marketing it as a Picatinny rail then it should be cut to that specification. Weaver rails are slightly different but will generally work.

[jwai86]

If they're marketing it as a Picatinny rail then it should be cut to that specification. Weaver rails are slightly different but will generally work.

I have few concerns about brands like DIP Inc, EGW, MDT, Area 419 cutting their rails to their stated specifications.

I did notice however that DIP Inc rails are shorter in height to be more flush with the receiver than rails from other brands.

[Bugman]

My Anschutz has a Picatinny rail. Suits me for type of shooting I do. Please excuse an old fart but what the fu%k is a "tacticool kid"?

[animalpest]

I put picatinny rails on .22 rifles that dont have a dovetail. The only rifle that I have this applies to is a Ruger 10/22. I see no advantage on putting a picatinny rail on a .22 unless you are shooting at ranges beyond hunting distances.

If recoil shifts your scope on a .22LR then I suggest you buy decent scope mounts.

[jwai86]

My Anschutz has a Picatinny rail. Suits me for type of shooting I do. Please excuse an old fart but what the fu%k is a "tacticool kid"?

I'm making reference to the trend (particularly with Americans and their ARs) of shooters slapping all sorts of stuff onto their firearms using rails like special forces wannabes.