New scope for 308 SFP vs FFP

[izzi88]

Currently purchased a tikka Strata in 308 and seeking out some scope recommendations..
The gun will mostly be used for hunting pigs and deer through stalking.
I don't imagine shooting >200-300m however if i had the correct gear and practice wouldn't mind the challenge.
I am finding myself twiddling my fingers as to which scope to choose.
Current budget of ~$1000 AUD.
I have visited local gunshops and found the following to reasonable:

MEOPTA MEOPRO OPTIKA 6 3-18x50 FFP RD ZPLUS ~$1100
MEOPTA MEOPRO OPTIKA 6 3-18X50 SFP DICHRO BDC ~$1100
BURRIS SIGNATURE HD 3-15x44 PLEX ~$1100

my biggest hurdle is SFP vs FFP.
I understand the pros and cons of each, but having a FFP makes a lot more sense to me and also given it is the same price as a SFP. knowing that if i change my magnification on a SFP might give me issues however i have been told to seek out a SFP for hunting.

and lastly... magnification. Is there a guide to know how much magnification is needed for a 300m shot, 500m shot etc ?

Happy for all opinions on the matters above.

[bladeracer]

Currently purchased a tikka Strata in 308 and seeking out some scope recommendations..
The gun will mostly be used for hunting pigs and deer through stalking.
I don't imagine shooting >200-300m however if i had the correct gear and practice wouldn't mind the challenge.
I am finding myself twiddling my fingers as to which scope to choose.
Current budget of ~$1000 AUD.
I have visited local gunshops and found the following to reasonable:

MEOPTA MEOPRO OPTIKA 6 3-18x50 FFP RD ZPLUS ~$1100
MEOPTA MEOPRO OPTIKA 6 3-18X50 SFP DICHRO BDC ~$1100
BURRIS SIGNATURE HD 3-15x44 PLEX ~$1100

my biggest hurdle is SFP vs FFP.
I understand the pros and cons of each, but having a FFP makes a lot more sense to me and also given it is the same price as a SFP. knowing that if i change my magnification on a SFP might give me issues however i have been told to seek out a SFP for hunting.

and lastly... magnification. Is there a guide to know how much magnification is needed for a 300m shot, 500m shot etc ?

Happy for all opinions on the matters above.

FFP will give you a very fine reticle when you have the scope wound right down while walking into an area, it can be very difficult to see against a background of trees or grass. Then it'll be a thicker reticle when you have it wound up while you're watching likely areas. I would stick with SFP.

For walking in where you might be making snap shots against moving or fleeting targets I would stay at four-power or lower for the bottom end. For the top end you need enough magnification to be able to make out an animal clearly when it is hidden in the shadows under trees and bush. I would want at least 18-power for the top-end, but probably not more than 24-power. And I wouldn't want an objective bigger than 40mm for a hunting rifle, the scopes get too large and awkward. Also side-focus parallax, never adjustable objective (AO), you can't easily adjust AO while you have the rifle shouldered.

I also prefer a BDC rather than a duplex or minute/mil grid. Ballistic trajectories are not symmetrical, a bullet doesn't follow a curve like 1MoA low at 100m, 2MoA low at 300m, 3MoA low at 400m. It's more like 1MoA low at 100m, 3MoA low at 200m, 7MoA low at 300m, 20MoA low at 400m, and so on, the drop increases with each step. A BDC has holdovers at similar increasing increments so it makes more sense, for me.

Whether you go FFP or SFP you still need to actually shoot at different distances to learn your holdovers anyway. With a .308 though you should be able to zero around 220m and be fine out to 250m with very minor hold allowances for close and long shots, hold maybe three-inches low at 100m and three-inches high at 250m - check with your specific rifle and ammo though.

[bman940]

One nice thing about the FFP is that once you dial in your shooting data and get the drops, that's it. I do like capped turrets for hunting even though on more than one occasion I have removed caps and dialed in my elevation. It sounds like you will be most happy with the 3-18X50 FFP Z-Plus, one of my favorites of many!

[juano86]

Leupold VX3-HD 3.5-10x40 currently on sale at Magnum Sports for $790 would dead ass be the best scope for the money in that category. SFP for hunting! You don't want a tiny fine reticle in low light when you're trying to shoot a deer at close range early morning or late arvo. The VX3-HD comes with a dialable turret with zerolock and the ability to send in your ballistic data to NIOA and have a custom dial cut for the particular ammo / load you're shooting (first one is free).
x10 power is plenty of magnification for shooting pig / deer sized game out to 500m. lifetime warranty and they are extremely lightweight.

[JohnV]

If you are going to use a mil dot reticle to hold off and over at range then the FFP is good because the mil dot sub-tensions are the same at all powers .
If you go FFP then get a scope with an illuminated reticle and you can turn it on when the reticule is hard to see at low powers .
If you are not going to use the reticle for hold overs etc. Then a SFP with a custom turret would be good .
The issue I have with custom turrets is you are locked into that one load for it to be accurate .
With a FFP scope you can work out the drop of any load and either hold over the correct amount of mils or dial it onto the turret .
If you do go FFP with a mil dot reticle make sure the scopes turrets are also mils not MOA .
I have a Leupold VX3 3.5 to 10 x 50 on my Sako 22-250 and I would argue that it's not enough power for 500 meters when the target may be obscured by bush and in dappled shade etc. I would go 6.5 to 20 or similar . A 40mm objective will not perform at dusk and dawn as well as a 50mm objective .

[SCJ429]

With a FFP scope you can work out the drop of any load and either hold over the correct amount of mils or dial it onto the turret .
e .

Hi John, when I want to use a holdover with my SFP scope, I am at maximum magnification for this longer range shot. I can also use the graduations on my retical the same as you described for the FFP scope. While I am not a fan of bullet drop retical, they also can be used for hold overs if you know what ranges they indicate. Once again the scope would be set on the magnification you expect to be using for these types of shots, usually the maximum available. Like you say though, there is nothing like using your turrets to dial the correct amount of elevation.

[bladeracer]

I happened to watch a video review of a very high-quality March FFP scope just now (according to the video it retails for E3500 or about $5500).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxTbZveUkJA
At 4.5-power you can see that the reticle is near invisible even against a white paper background target - 11:33 in the video.

Screenshot 2022-10-26 135218.jpg (105.61 KiB) Viewed 1949 times

At 28-power the reticle is much larger, to the point of obscuring tiny aiming points - 11:44 in the video.

Screenshot 2022-10-26 135248.jpg (64.76 KiB) Viewed 1949 times

FFP works backwards in my opinion, you want a fine reticle at high-magnification when you're trying to hit a small target at longer range, and a heavier reticle at low-magnification when you need to pick up the reticle very quickly on a close-range moving target.

As for the reticle stadia being the same regardless of magnification, good luck trying to even read the markings on the reticle at low-magnification

Stick with SFP.

[SCJ429]

I agree Blade, you can use the illuminated retical to help you but for me, every time I need it the battery has gone flat and I forgot to take a spare. The other way to get around the draw back of a FFP is to get a fixed power. Then you get the size retical you want and the graduations cannot change like a SFP.

[bladeracer]

I agree Blade, you can use the illuminated retical to help you but for me, every time I need it the battery has gone flat and I forgot to take a spare. The other way to get around the draw back of a FFP is to get a fixed power. Then you get the size retical you want and the graduations cannot change like a SFP.

Yes, the biggest drawback to illuminated optics, including holographics and red dots, is that they have to be turned on when you need them (a pressure switch for your left hand is good for this), and the batteries have to be charged. Modern "shake technology" means you can simply leave these switched on now as they switch themselves off if the firearm is not moving, though I don't think most are sensitive enough to remain on while you're lying up watching over a likely spot.

I think people get way too caught up in reticle hold overs, especially for hunting.

Out to 300m, or a bit further, you really don't need to use any holdover marks on the reticle with most high-velocity rifles, they shoot flat enough that when zeroed around 220m-250m the bullet is only going to be maybe three or four inches above or below your line of sight. You don't need reticle marks for that, at least not once you gain some experience of the size of the targets you are engaging. If you're shooting within the 100m-180m range then hold a little low on the target, if you're shooting out near 300m hold a little high. This is all you need to reliably head-shot rabbits and foxes out to 300m (simple duplex reticles and capped turrets were all we had in the old days). Even a duplex reticle has a basic BDC "circle" formed by the the points of the duplex posts. If it's 3MoA from the cross to the point of the duplex post you can use that for your holds under, over, and for wind.

Further than 300m if you want to reliably hit small targets then dial the elevation up to give you dead-on holds, don't expect to do precision shooting using holdover marks or BDC's, at least not without a lot of practice.

The BDC is a rough stadia originally designed to put military bullets into human-size targets, at speed, under combat conditions, they were never intended for precision shooting. It gives you a few marks for holding high out to about 600m to put your bullets within a foot or two of where you want them. The BDC really shines as a learning tool more than anything, in my opinion. And it's great fun for informal target shooting at extended ranges. But for engaging live targets, and killing them humanely, you want precision aiming. Accurately estimate, or lase, the range to the target, and dial the scope to put you right on the crosshair at that distance.

[markg]

My Swarovskis turn off automatically when the rifle is taken out of the horizontal or side to side.
Great idea that, set it and leave it.

[deye243]

Currently purchased a tikka Strata in 308 and seeking out some scope recommendations..
The gun will mostly be used for hunting pigs and deer through stalking.
I don't imagine shooting >200-300m however if i had the correct gear and practice wouldn't mind the challenge.
I am finding myself twiddling my fingers as to which scope to choose.
Current budget of ~$1000 AUD.
I have visited local gunshops and found the following to reasonable:

MEOPTA MEOPRO OPTIKA 6 3-18x50 FFP RD ZPLUS ~$1100
MEOPTA MEOPRO OPTIKA 6 3-18X50 SFP DICHRO BDC ~$1100
BURRIS SIGNATURE HD 3-15x44 PLEX ~$1100

my biggest hurdle is SFP vs FFP.
I understand the pros and cons of each, but having a FFP makes a lot more sense to me and also given it is the same price as a SFP. knowing that if i change my magnification on a SFP might give me issues however i have been told to seek out a SFP for hunting.

and lastly... magnification. Is there a guide to know how much magnification is needed for a 300m shot, 500m shot etc ?

Happy for all opinions on the matters above.

izzi8 considering you have bought a light-weight stalking rifle I really don't see the quandary why would you put a heavy and bulky scope on such a rifle .
I would not worry about first or second focal plane as it is not a long-range firearm personally I would look for a lightweight
quality scope such as a Leupold vx-3hd 3.5-10 or 4.5-14 to do your rifle Justice just work out whether you need a 40 or 50 mm objective
The later myself and my two sons have no problems knocking off steel rabbits and real rabbits out to 400 yards .
They are light and compact just what you need for a stalking rifle .

Anyway here is a pic of my two rimfires 22 has meopta optica 6 3-18X56 my 17 hmr has a leupold x3i 4.4-14X40ao now if I was hunting pigs and goats the loupy would be my go to unless I was spotlighting.

Screenshot_20221101-225936_Gallery.jpg (521.04 KiB) Viewed 1817 times

And yes it worked great on a centerfire too .

20221101_231644.jpg (343.69 KiB) Viewed 1817 times

I would have liked to show you pics of stalking rifles with lightweight scopes but I am now a diesel stalker or Ridge Hunter because of health reasons therefore all my centre fires are Heavy Barrel long-range Firearms .

Cheers hope you get what you need .

[JohnV]

How I used my FFP scope is I tended to crank up the power to eyeball the target then when I know what I am shooting at crank it back down to a better reticule size .
Talking about short range and moving targets is not where you mainly use a FFP scope , it's a sniper / varmint style scope . For a walk about gun that I swing on moving game I use a 2 to 7 x 33 Leupold SFP . One of the things I notice now is shooters trying to make one scope do everything which I get because of cost . No single scope can do every job perfectly . My FFP sits on a 17 lb gun so I never carried it further than a few hundred meters to a layup position and that was when I was younger and fitter . Got it out of the safe a month back to inspect and clean it and thought , " f*ck this is heavy " but it will shoot a full power 243 or 30-06 load and feels like a 223 on the shoulder . It has a custom rail mount carry handle which helps a lot .
I would not sink all that cash into a single scope like a March if you are not rich . I would buy a few cheaper but serviceable scopes to cover wider use . A Vortex mil dot reticle in a FFP is better than that March reticle . Lifetime warranty and good warranty service .

[Biscuits]

I happened to watch a video review of a very high-quality March FFP scope just now (according to the video it retails for E3500 or about $5500).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxTbZveUkJA
At 4.5-power you can see that the reticle is near invisible even against a white paper background target - 11:33 in the video.

Screenshot 2022-10-26 135218.jpg

At 28-power the reticle is much larger, to the point of obscuring tiny aiming points - 11:44 in the video.

Screenshot 2022-10-26 135248.jpg

FFP works backwards in my opinion, you want a fine reticle at high-magnification when you're trying to hit a small target at longer range, and a heavier reticle at low-magnification when you need to pick up the reticle very quickly on a close-range moving target.

As for the reticle stadia being the same regardless of magnification, good luck trying to even read the markings on the reticle at low-magnification

Stick with SFP.

I don't doubt SFP can be made to work, but as a user of FFP scopes, I find the negatives you list don't matter in actual field use.

That low-mag reticle might look invisible in the video, but what a video camera sees and what your eye sees are not the same. In that video capture, the white target board is way overexposed, so you can't see anything, including most of the aiming circles on the target. The overexposure in the screengrab has also obscured the reticle markings. With first hand experience myself of starting with SFP before selling it and now owning 4 x FFP scopes, I would say that a FFP reticle is visible in real world use at all magnifications. What it isn't so good at is fast acquisition when on low power. The lines on the reticle are small at low magnification. Quite visible, but small. But as pointed out in one of the other posts above, if you need fast acquisition at low magnification, then just turn the illumination on. The illumination on most scopes turns itself off after a few hours, so if you forget to turn it off you will still have a battery for next time.

FFP reticles almost always will have a very small central aiming dot with crosshairs leading into it. At low magnification, the crosshairs are visible. At high magnification, the small center dot is visible. There is always a useable aiming point. In the second video screen grab, with the March scope at high magnification, you can see the center dot illuminated with small illuminated crosshairs around it. That looks quite useable!

I spent the weekend shooing small (0.15 or 0.20 millirad) targets from 400 to 1610 metres (1-mile) all with FFP scopes and I really did not have any problems with FFP, whereas a SFP would have been very problematic and would have limited my shooting. If you want to have only a single magnification available for use for high precision shooting, then SFP is viable. If you need high precision and you need variable magnification, then it is FFP.

[Biscuits]

For information, the scope on my 308 is a Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-20x50. This in intended to show the workability of a FFP scope in the field.

Photos taken through the eyepiece with an iPhone.

These were taken just around sunset in poor, fading light. That really is quite useable to me. As you can see, while the fine crosshairs are a bit hard to see with it zoomed out, the problem completely goes away with the reticle illumination. It's perfectly useable at medium mag. I didn't take a maximum mag photo, but it would still be fully useable and able to give you a precise aiming point.

LOW SCOPE MAGNIFICATION


HIGHER (not maximum) SCOPE MAGNIFICATION


As pointed out above, if the purpose of the rifle is a lightweight stalking rifle, I probably would not put a heavy scope on it. If you want to do precision target as well down the track, then light stalking rifles aren't suitable. Their low weight magnifies recoil which gets tiring after a lot of shots and the barrel heats up too fast and loses accuracy. Just buy an additional rifle and an additional scope if you want to do target. You could still use the target rifle for hunting if you don't need to lug it around, eg firing from a fixed position high seat.

[JohnV]

Nice work Biscuits .