Sighting In

[jezzab]

So I've typically sighted in my .25 PCP air rifle and .22LR on the bench with bags, relaxed etc. They are perfect at the range I sighted them in at and haven't had a problem even freehand (bar my skills holding it).

I've got a .223 I sighted in elsewhere and I couldn't use a bench, I had to do it a bit more "rustic" ie bonnet of the ute or fence. That drove me nuts as I feel it's not as accurate (little bit OCD and love data)

Is it less accurate? I've heard people says 'zero it as you will shoot it'.

I hate that but I kinda get the thinking. If you get recoil, it moves a certain way vs the bench depending how you react to that or hold it, you are 'consistent' in factoring that in zeroing that way.

Curious in other people's thoughts

Jez

[jezzab]

I have a 7mm-08 to sight in in a couple of days, so I guess I'm debating bringing a table or just repeating the same as the 223 (or bringing the table and redoing the 223 while I'm at it)

[bladeracer]

So I've typically sighted in my .25 PCP air rifle and .22LR on the bench with bags, relaxed etc. They are perfect at the range I sighted them in at and haven't had a problem even freehand (bar my skills holding it).

I've got a .223 I sighted in elsewhere and I couldn't use a bench, I had to do it a bit more "rustic" ie bonnet of the ute or fence. That drove me nuts as I feel it's not as accurate (little bit OCD and love data)

Is it less accurate? I've heard people says 'zero it as you will shoot it'.

I hate that but I kinda get the thinking. If you get recoil, it moves a certain way vs the bench depending how you react to that or hold it, you are 'consistent' in factoring that in zeroing that way.

Curious in other people's thoughts

Jez

I zero the rifle the same way I intend to use it, if I'm going to use it with a bipod I zero with the bipod, if I'm going to shoot it offhand I zero it offhand.

[bladeracer]

I have a 7mm-08 to sight in in a couple of days, so I guess I'm debating bringing a table or just repeating the same as the 223 (or bringing the table and redoing the 223 while I'm at it)

I like to set up some gongs as well as the paper I'm zeroing on. After I zero the rifle I try hitting the gongs from field positions to confirm it is actually zeroed for how I'm going to be shooting it.

[stihl88]

Zeroing probably comes down to 3 goals.

1. Zeroing, aligning the reticle to the bore.
2. Repeatability, is the firearm shooting consistently and all components holding zero or is there an issue with components i.e. scope mounts.
3. Grouping, once you are confident 1 & 2 are covered are you able to group your shots to a desired MOA.

If you've covered #1 & #2 then you're probably good to go but #3 is just as important if shooting at live targets to ensure you are confident of a clean and humane kill.

[jezzab]

Thanks for some great insight.

That's the thing, I see the bore line and the scope line hitting the zero distance as the "perfect" alignment. So anything you do after that is imperfect, that's the benchmark. But, being locked in with a bag and a bench is different to offhand and in the moment.

[Blr243]

I reckon blade might be the man to ask because he shoots heaps more practice than I do. So here goes. I zero my rifles and shotguns of little bags on tables on hunting trips .. then when I’m in the bush hunting I rest on a tree sometimes but mostly I shoot off hand real close 30 m max. I always drop the pigs but I want to know this … blade , after you have zeroued off a bench and then you test at 30 m off hand , is your poi the same with the different recoil environment? Or is your poi differentl ?

[stihl88]

Thanks for some great insight.
That's the thing, I see the bore line and the scope line hitting the zero distance as the "perfect" alignment. So anything you do after that is imperfect, that's the benchmark. But, being locked in with a bag and a bench is different to offhand and in the moment.

Yeah definately helps to take out all the variables, anything else after that comes down to skill, experience, conditions and a bit of luck and some days the target just wont behave the way you want it too.

[bladeracer]

I reckon blade might be the man to ask because he shoots heaps more practice than I do. So here goes. I zero my rifles and shotguns of little bags on tables on hunting trips .. then when I’m in the bush hunting I rest on a tree sometimes but mostly I shoot off hand real close 30 m max. I always drop the pigs but I want to know this … blade , after you have zeroed off a bench and then you test at 30 m off hand , is your poi the same with the different recoil environment? Or is your poi different ?

Some rifles, like my hunting rifles, I don't see any noticeable difference regardless of how I'm shooting them, at least within reasonable hunting distances (say 300m), and this is what you need in a rifle in my opinion. But some rifles I do see different points of impact, sometimes very significantly, particularly with two-piece stocks, like lever-actions and .303's, and tube magazines. I have also seen different point of impact shooting open-sight rifles from different positions (prone, sitting, kneeling, offhand), but this may just be a me thing.

I was testing a new Beretta Neos .22LR Pistol last week. I did some testing first to see that everything worked and that it is capable of grouping (10rds into about one-inch at 10m resting my forearms on the bench), then I shot a match and Rose shot a match. There was a remarkable difference between myself and Rose, just due to how our eyes perceive the sight picture. I was holding 350mm right of point of impact at 25m, Rose was holding around 150mm left of point of impact. Elevation was very close though, within 50mm at most. The one-inch rested group was only about 50mm left of my point of aim.

[Wapiti]

In our case, we see absolutely no difference between point-of-impact when zeroing off sandbags on a steel benchrest, and then when shooting off/over a padded rest in a side x side or a ute door rest. The same goes for offhand when walkabout hunting - the firearms suitable for that are zeroed off benchrests in the farmyard range then used off the shoulder, prone or resting against trees at game.

You are right about zeroing off a car bonnet or some hasty set-up out bush unless it's super steady it can freak you out by enlarging your groups a bit, but as with all zeroing, the centre of your group, provided you're as consistent as possible, is what you're after. Usually it will be fine!

People can do whatever they like or believe all the "unless you zero it leaning against a tree, it won't be zeroed for shooting off a tree", but from all the shooting, zeroing and different rifle types we swap across, there is absolutely no difference. Weird, huh.

The only caveat to this is, if you hold your rifle differently when zeroing in some strange way then have to hang onto it in the bush later differently, like that fad nowadays of hardly touching the grip and letting the rifle jump backwards free recoiling as shown by YouTube experts when killing paper, well don't.
You can't shoot like that in the bush, you have to hold the rifle up in all types of positions and grip the damn thing.
So, if you're a hunter/bush shooter, zero your rifle with the same grip on the rifle when on the bags as when you hunt in all the positions, including the way you hold the forend, and you will find no difference in point of impact when in the field afterwards.

We headshoot 99% of everything out here, for a few reasons, unless it's wild dogs running flat out. All our different rifles are zeroed off bags and hit exactly where we aim as far as we can reliably hold out in the field afterwards. I am absolutely fanatical about animal welfare and will not accept inconsistency.
If this doesn't work for someone, refer to the previous paragraph in bold, and it will. That's the only consistency rule you need to remember.

[Die Judicii]

Your issue/s as related and being mindful of OCD as you mentioned, I think is playing on your mind.

Putting things in perspective,,,,,,, it's a bit like the following,

A young fella once said that he would NEVER get married until everything was perfect.

That same young fella grew old,,,,,,,,, and never did get married.

[Fester]

You can't go far wrong zeroing from a bench at around 100 as it will be close enough for all your hunting positions and how else could you zero and check multiple hunting rifles?

The only diff is my deer rifle is zeroed at 1.75" high at 100yds.
My longer-range target rifles are zeroed at 100 yards or meters so I can dial repeatedly

How else could you zero check and remember exactly how each rifle was set up.

I do notice a slight difference with bags and bipods.
I also seem to shoot low-left off-hand.
Tree support deer shots are often slightly high but is an inch or 2 going to make any difference?
I shoot them in the chest so 2" in any direction makes no real difference.

F-class groups are shot by gambling on yourself and dialing those first 2 sighters.

[mchughcb]

So I've typically sighted in my .25 PCP air rifle and .22LR on the bench with bags, relaxed etc. They are perfect at the range I sighted them in at and haven't had a problem even freehand (bar my skills holding it).

I've got a .223 I sighted in elsewhere and I couldn't use a bench, I had to do it a bit more "rustic" ie bonnet of the ute or fence. That drove me nuts as I feel it's not as accurate (little bit OCD and love data)

Is it less accurate? I've heard people says 'zero it as you will shoot it'.

I hate that but I kinda get the thinking. If you get recoil, it moves a certain way vs the bench depending how you react to that or hold it, you are 'consistent' in factoring that in zeroing that way.

Curious in other people's thoughts

Jez

Sight off the bench at 200m. Practice all other positions in your own time.

[animalpest]

You are zeroing your rifle, not you.

That means making sure the rifle is a steady as it can be within the rifles parameters of making it shoot the best - rifle hold, where the rifle is supported and by what etc.

I zero off a table with bags and then shoot out of the ute (a door rest) or on top of it (bipod) and if I miss hitting the itty bitty bit of a roos head I am aiming at, it's not the fault of the rifle

[bladeracer]

You are zeroing your rifle, not you.

That means making sure the rifle is a steady as it can be within the rifles parameters of making it shoot the best - rifle hold, where the rifle is supported and by what etc.

I zero off a table with bags and then shoot out of the ute (a door rest) or on top of it (bipod) and if I miss hitting the itty bitty bit of a roos head I am aiming at, it's not the fault of the rifle

I disagree for a hunting rifle, you need to zero it to yourself so when you fire it in the field you can be confident the bullet will go where you want it. For a target rifle then sure, just zero the rifle and adjust based upon your sighters at the start of the match.

[Oldbloke]

Well
I zero on a bench.
100 yards.
Adjustable front rest.
Rear bag.

If I go away for a few days, or it's been a while, I'll sometimes check zero in the field. Usually off the ute tail gate with a make do rest.


I never miss in the field.

[animalpest]

You are zeroing your rifle, not you.

That means making sure the rifle is a steady as it can be within the rifles parameters of making it shoot the best - rifle hold, where the rifle is supported and by what etc.

I zero off a table with bags and then shoot out of the ute (a door rest) or on top of it (bipod) and if I miss hitting the itty bitty bit of a roos head I am aiming at, it's not the fault of the rifle

I disagree for a hunting rifle, you need to zero it to yourself so when you fire it in the field you can be confident the bullet will go where you want it. For a target rifle then sure, just zero the rifle and adjust based upon your sighters at the start of the match.

I don't do target or bench shooting, I just shoot animals. So long as you are holding it similar to what you are using in the field, there is not disadvantage.

I don't want to think that I shot badly because the rifle is not zeroed and shooting as accurately as possible.

[mchughcb]

You are zeroing your rifle, not you.

That means making sure the rifle is a steady as it can be within the rifles parameters of making it shoot the best - rifle hold, where the rifle is supported and by what etc.

I zero off a table with bags and then shoot out of the ute (a door rest) or on top of it (bipod) and if I miss hitting the itty bitty bit of a roos head I am aiming at, it's not the fault of the rifle

I disagree for a hunting rifle, you need to zero it to yourself so when you fire it in the field you can be confident the bullet will go where you want it. For a target rifle then sure, just zero the rifle and adjust based upon your sighters at the start of the match.

In my years of benchrest and offhand competition I can say that in general you will shoot an inch or more lower up to 100 yards shooting offhand, which I'd say as a result of the trigger pull.