New scope time

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Re: New scope time

Post by Aussier » 29 Jun 2014, 9:13 am

cruze82 wrote:Now I know a lot of guys don't like the Horus reticle or first focal plain but I had a play with one on the weekend and yes it took some getting used to but it had so many advantages to it once you used it for a while


I do get appreciate advantages of first plane reticles (having used them on occasion).

The first few times you zoom in/out though it's definitely not what you're expecting though after you've been using second-plane scopes.
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Re: New scope time

Post by cruze82 » 29 Jun 2014, 9:56 am

have a look at this link you can zoom in to see what the rericle looks like on high and low power
https://www.horusvision.com/img/h59falcon.swf
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Re: New scope time

Post by VICHunter » 29 Jun 2014, 10:11 am

Aussier wrote:I do get appreciate advantages of first plane reticles (having used them on occasion).


Having the holdover points remain constant is definitely a plus for hunting over difference distances.
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Re: New scope time

Post by Lorgar » 29 Jun 2014, 10:42 am

cruze82 wrote:The hard thing I am finding is getting either of these scopes on my hand to fondle and I'm finding it hard to swallow the 4k price tag (with rings) on something I have never seen or held.

So my question is has anyone gone down this path and paid the money for top quality glass and how did you go about it?

The scope will be used for long range hunting and target shooting

5-25x56 B.E.A.S.T.™


Just my personal opinion here (not having a go, not knocking the scopes etc. etc.)

I've gotta say that, for me, $4k for a scope is a waste of money to be blunt.

There are so many options for 1/3rd of the price that are excellent. Not 'good for the money' or 'not as good but half the price', just straight up great scopes.

I bought my Elite 6500 after much research and reviews and it is excellent all round. Comparing to the above for a sec...

6500 (left) vs BEAST (right)

4.5-30x vs 5-25x

$950 vs $3,700

683 grams vs 1097 grams

30mm tube vs 34mm tube

50mm objective vs 56mm objective.

Pros for the 6500 - More magnification range, 1/4 the price, smaller, lighter, IMO better clarity (explained later on)


Pro's for the BEAST are arguable at best IMO...

The 34mm tube gives you 60moa of adjustment, while the the 30mm of the Elite gives you 52moa.

Doing some quick math here... (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

On the same fixed mounts... the Elite would take me out to about 1200ish metres before I ran out of drop adjustment. The BEAST would take me out to 1350ish metres.

Beyond that there is always adding a mount/rail with additional adjustment anyway to add range if you needed it. Personally I have the mildot reticles too which I can use to aim and effectively increase to 'drop adjustment' anyway. Having said all that I never shoot that far anyway so it's all a moot point for me, and you said your furthest shot so far is 546m so...


50mm vs 56mm objective... and on the subject of glass quality in general...

I have used the BEAST's a handful of times, can't say I'm intimately familiar with them but on the occasions I've used them there was certainly nothing to justify the cost of those lenses to me.

I picked up a few of the expensive Nightforce scopes at the Shot Show when it was here in Melbourne and I have to say I was pretty underwhelmed. To my naked eye (acknowledging that that's a completely subjective test and not scientific at all) they were not as clear/sharp as my scope.

My 50mm gathers light extremely well in low light conditions, has all the fancy glass coatings blah blah blah. Putting them to the test I would be seriously surprised if the BEAST did any better.


Didn't mean for this to be all negative and ripping on the Nightforce scopes but that's the way I see it. Open to hearing counter arguments...

Circling back to actual scope advice, following my train of thought with the Bushnells... The only thing is the 6500's have second focal plane reticles which you're currently not looking at. You could however look at the Elite Tactical series which has everything discussed above and first focal plane reticle like you're looking at,

XRS 4.5-30x 50mm with G2 reticle.

ERS 4.5-30x 50mm with Mil-Dot reticle.


Those are my thoughts.
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Re: New scope time

Post by cruze82 » 29 Jun 2014, 11:05 am

Some really good comparisons there mate and to tell you the truth, I had the same thought the other day.

I have the Bushnell 4.5-30x Elite Tactical in a Mil-Dot on the gun at the moment and I do like the scope.

I had thought about buying another Bushnell with the first focal plane reticle, it's really good glass for the price.

I'm hoping there are a few to hold at the shot show in Perth this year.
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Re: New scope time

Post by gherx » 29 Jun 2014, 4:07 pm

Lorgar wrote:Just my personal opinion here (not having a go, not knocking the scopes etc. etc.)


Not sure that will be enough to stop the Nightforce goon squad ripping into you :lol:
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Re: New scope time

Post by chicachicka » 29 Jun 2014, 4:12 pm

He'll be right.

They couldn't find him through those heavy, blurry scopes anyway. OOOWWW BURN!

:lol:
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Re: New scope time

Post by MeccaOz » 29 Jun 2014, 5:21 pm

chicachicka wrote:He'll be right.

They couldn't find him through those heavy, blurry scopes anyway. OOOWWW BURN!

:lol:


LMAO
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Re: New scope time

Post by flap » 02 Jul 2014, 10:23 am

Lorgar wrote:The 34mm tube gives you 60moa of adjustment, while the the 30mm of the Elite gives you 52moa.


Does a bigger tube always give more adjustment range?
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Re: New scope time

Post by The Brass » 02 Jul 2014, 10:30 am

flap wrote:Does a bigger tube always give more adjustment range?


Yes, that's the primary purpose. Larger tube = more room for internal workings to move further.

There is argument that a larger tube is better for light gathering but I'm not convinced it adds any real benefit in that regard. On datasheet specs from manufacturers I've read numbers like 1-2% more light transmission, if they even mention it...

Putting it to your eye though I say there is no difference. With any decent quality scope anyway, and certainly not when you're starting with a 30mm tube. That's heaps for light. The only reason you'd ever need to buy a scope with a tube larger than 30mm is for extreme range shooting.

2c.
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Re: New scope time

Post by Squiddy » 24 Jun 2016, 7:27 am

Im digging up an old thread here, but I'm scope shopping and managed to confuse the crap out of myself (which isn't hard).

Looking at the Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm BTR MIL illuminated.

Is the mil dot good for long distance shooting (500m-1000m and possibly beyond?), or should I go with the G2 reticle? The mil dot reticle comes in almost $300 cheaper.... Image
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Re: New scope time

Post by knowsnothin » 24 Jun 2016, 9:33 am

S & B have a new high mag scope out this year 5 - 45. looking forward to looking through one.
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Re: New scope time

Post by Squiddy » 24 Jun 2016, 9:56 am

Squiddy wrote:Im digging up an old thread here, but I'm scope shopping and managed to confuse the crap out of myself (which isn't hard).

Looking at the Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm BTR MIL illuminated.

Is the mil dot good for long distance shooting (500m-1000m and possibly beyond?), or should I go with the G2 reticle? The mil dot reticle comes in almost $300 cheaper.... Image



Found a review of the BTR Mil which says the dot is impossible to see at long ranges (~1000m). Can anyone confirm? Or does anyone have a Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm BTR MIL illuminated they use for long range targets?
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Re: New scope time

Post by bluerob » 24 Jun 2016, 10:59 am

I've got the Elite Bushnell 6-24x50 & a 4.4-30x50 and whilst these are decent scopes, you can't compare the "vision" with a Schmidt & Bender. Its not a religious experience, but, I certainly see a difference. I am 100% target shooting only. Too broken to hunt anymore....

I'm in the same predicament as the OP and called on one of this forums gurus (in my opinion) for his opinion. Thanks if you're reading this!

I haven't looked through March or Nighforce as yet, but, the Schmidt scope that I currently have (good for 500m shoots I suppose, if you know what you're doing) has incredibly clear vision. Your eyes moisten... I'm serious. It's like a massive relief after looking through the Bushnell - yep, I understand the part about "you get what you pay for."

I struggle with the current scopes (just starting in F-Class) on my rifles and hence why I'm also confusing the crap out of myself too about getting "bigger scopes."

A few of the guys that I've spoken with who shoot F-Class primarily use March scopes.

I spent too many years using iron sights and handguns. I think I'll end up going with a Schmidt, but, who bloody knows. I'm still learning in this game. I do know that I'm not keen on having too much info in the scope view.
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Re: New scope time

Post by Gamerancher » 24 Jun 2016, 4:57 pm

So do these fella's not adjust the scope after it's sighted in? Just used the hold-over as marked on the reticle? Just askin" :unknown:
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Re: New scope time

Post by bluerob » 25 Jun 2016, 10:09 am

Gamerancher wrote:So do these fella's not adjust the scope after it's sighted in? Just used the hold-over as marked on the reticle? Just askin" :unknown:


From my talking with F-Class shooters, some try hold over and others play with the dials - depends on the scope and the individual and their setup. I'm using a Caldwell Rock as a front rest and a no name bag beside guys whose front rest cost more than my rifle and scope. Absolute perfection I guess?

Because my eyes aren't like they once were, I can see a huge difference between my Elites and my current Schmidt scope. Like going from Commodore leather to Rolls Royce leather might be a good description?

Buying a Schmidt & Bender is my next and last purchase, for a while.....
Last edited by bluerob on 25 Jun 2016, 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New scope time

Post by happyhunter » 25 Jun 2016, 10:19 am

Squiddy wrote:Im digging up an old thread here, but I'm scope shopping and managed to confuse the crap out of myself (which isn't hard).

Looking at the Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm BTR MIL illuminated.

Is the mil dot good for long distance shooting (500m-1000m and possibly beyond?), or should I go with the G2 reticle? The mil dot reticle comes in almost $300 cheaper.... Image


Save your money and go mildot. You can also use them to accurately measure distance.
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Re: New scope time

Post by MalleeFarmer » 25 Jun 2016, 10:26 am

Squiddy wrote:Im digging up an old thread here, but I'm scope shopping and managed to confuse the crap out of myself (which isn't hard).

Looking at the Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm BTR MIL illuminated.

Is the mil dot good for long distance shooting (500m-1000m and possibly beyond?), or should I go with the G2 reticle? The mil dot reticle comes in almost $300 cheaper.... Image


I have a 6-24x50 G2 on a Howa .308 HB and I think it's an awesome scope for the money. I have just bought a new LRHS 4.5-18x44 with the G2H reticle which is a hunting version of the G2 reticle. Haven't mounted it on a rifle yet but it looks even clearer than my 6245FG.
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Re: New scope time

Post by MalleeFarmer » 25 Jun 2016, 10:44 am

"Agriculture is our wisest pursuit, because it will in the end contribute most to real wealth, good morals and happiness." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: New scope time

Post by Gamerancher » 25 Jun 2016, 10:55 am

Pretty much any scope under $1000 is using Chinese glass, Leupold, Zeiss included. The high-end Euro brands still make their own lenses. Don't know about March and L/force. I've been to the Swarovski factory (2002), unbelievable what goes into those things. We watched the lense cleaning process, amazing. You can certainly see why the price is so high. They make Khales in the same factory. We got to try out some of their scopes in the onsite, underground 100m range with electronic target system, wow! They treated us to lunch, their canteen was like a fancy restaurant, maybe that gets added to the price as well. ;)
Still wondering about those graduated reticles though. A 6.5/284 has a way different trajectory to say a .308W. What trajectory are they calibrated on?
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Re: New scope time

Post by MalleeFarmer » 25 Jun 2016, 11:03 am

The Bushnell Elite scopes are made in Japan using Japanese Glass. Their cheaper scopes are made in China and the Philippines. They are still adequate for most hunting though. They are Mil and 1/2mil graduations or roughly (very roughly)10cm and 5cm respectively at 100m the finer ones on the edges and top of the G2 reticle are 1/10mil or the equivalent of a click on a mil based Scope.
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Re: New scope time

Post by Gamerancher » 25 Jun 2016, 11:43 am

So the 2,4,6,...don't actually correlate to yards/metres, okay I get it. My hunting scopes are old school, fixed power, steel tubed Khales. Excellent glass, big cross-hairs and absolutely brilliant in low light. That comes from the Europeans doing a lot of moonlight shooting from tree-stands in the forests. My Target scopes are all vari-xIII Leupolds, not for the glass but their turrets/adjusting system seems to stand up best to the constant changes that silhouette shooting requires. 4 different distances up to 16 changes a day during a match. No sighters once the match starts, so you need repeatable settings. 3/8 target dot reticles are my choice.
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