Scope advice for my first rifle!

[bhs]

Just wondering if this scope would be good for a 22lr.

Nightforce 4-14 x 56 SHV.

[Chronos]

Just wondering if this scope would be good for a 22lr,
Nightforce 4-14 x 56 SHV .

I'd suggest having a dead through the replies in this thread than ask yourself how much scope ( magnification, weight and expense) is too much scope for a rimfire that will most likely be used under 100m?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2136

Chronos

[Apollo]

I've had to sell my Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40mm that was on my Brno Model 2 .22LR, due to short term financial difficulties.

I realise I have to replace it, I like good optics and I realise that comes at a price. Good optics work well under low light and great low light optics cost money.

So, I started looking at what is available and since I do a little target work with my Brno and want to do more I realise that 3-9 power is great for bunny busting and out to well over 100 metres so I'm looking at 12x power but for a lite rifle it also has to be lite.

I use my .22LR for long range practise shooting from 100- 200 metres, got to learn wind reading someway and a .22LR is one of the best ways.

My other thoughts are since my Brno has a CZ size 16mm Dovetail then perhaps fit my CZ Picatinny Rail and have the best of both worlds. A reasonable power scope for bunny busting and swap to say my March-X 5-50x56mm for target. Some people will think I'm crazy but I have already played big power scope on a bloody .22LR in that I fitted my Nightforce BR 12-42x56mm and shot some targets at 50m ..... It was fun.

On the serious side the replacement to my little Conquest in consideration ........

ZEISS HD5 3 - 15 X 42 Plex 20 Reticle about $1,200

ZEISS TERRA 3X 4-12x42 Plex 20 Reticle about $560 but there are some bad reports about these new models.

Nightforce SHV 4-14 x 56 at about $1,000 however it has a huge downfall being twice the weight of any other scope.

As I said, I like nice optics but it's a light rifle so I'm tempted to give the last a really good thought. As with these later two scopes finding a mounting system for the big objective lens. My path is going to be to order another CZ Picatinny Rail and be able to swap from medium power to high power scopes. The scope now I'm looking at is the ....

ZEISS HD5 5 25 X 50 Plex 20 Reticle at about $1,300

I know I'm nut's, I like nice firearms and nice scopes......

[bhs]

I've had to sell my Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40mm that was on my Brno Model 2 .22LR, due to short term financial difficulties.

I realise I have to replace it, I like good optics and I realise that comes at a price. Good optics work well under low light and great low light optics cost money.

So, I started looking at what is available and since I do a little target work with my Brno and want to do more I realise that 3-9 power is great for bunny busting and out to well over 100 metres so I'm looking at 12x power but for a lite rifle it also has to be lite.

I use my .22LR for long range practise shooting from 100- 200 metres, got to learn wind reading someway and a .22LR is one of the best ways.

My other thoughts are since my Brno has a CZ size 16mm Dovetail then perhaps fit my CZ Picatinny Rail and have the best of both worlds. A reasonable power scope for bunny busting and swap to say my March-X 5-50x56mm for target. Some people will think I'm crazy but I have already played big power scope on a bloody .22LR in that I fitted my Nightforce BR 12-42x56mm and shot some targets at 50m ..... It was fun.

On the serious side the replacement to my little Conquest in consideration ........

ZEISS HD5 3 - 15 X 42 Plex 20 Reticle about $1,200

ZEISS TERRA 3X 4-12x42 Plex 20 Reticle about $560 but there are some bad reports about these new models.

Nightforce SHV 4-14 x 56 at about $1,000 however it has a huge downfall being twice the weight of any other scope.

As I said, I like nice optics but it's a light rifle so I'm tempted to give the last a really good thought. As with these later two scopes finding a mounting system for the big objective lens. My path is going to be to order another CZ Picatinny Rail and be able to swap from medium power to high power scopes. The scope now I'm looking at is the ....

ZEISS HD5 5 25 X 50 Plex 20 Reticle at about $1,300

I know I'm nut's, I like nice firearms and nice scopes......

haha yeah it does seems nuts, but is parallax ever a problem for short ranged shooting with a scope with no parallax adjustment ?

[Apollo]

If you learn to put your head / eye in the exact same spot parallax does not become an issue and I do mean same spot.

These scopes are parallax free at 100 yards not 150 metres / yards like some others so short range is really not a major issue. Target shooting, well I use a scope that will correct down to 10 yards....March.

[bhs]

If you learn to put your head / eye in the exact same spot parallax does not become an issue and I do mean same spot.

These scopes are parallax free at 100 yards not 150 metres / yards like some others so short range is really not a major issue. Target shooting, well I use a scope that will correct down to 10 yards....March.

for a new shooter would you recommend a scope with an adjustable parallax ? other option is a zeiss classic diavari 3-12 x 56

[Apollo]

For a "New Shooter" I have got to ask if you really know what you want and will it suit your purpose...???

For purpose, what do you want to do, what is the rifle in question...???

Bunny busting is one thing and works well with a cheap scope, going way further up market is another thing.

As I said, I'm nuts been playing for many dozens of years and I have a love for nice gear.

Can I ask you, how old are you...??? Just new shooter ...??? Varmint shooting and / or do you have a passion for target shooting.

As I said, I love target shooting and love the challenge of sorting out all the different .22LR Ammo that is available, picking a breed, spending hours rim sizing and weight checking the bloody things but it does pay off.... another topic subject I have covered in the past.

[bhs]

For a "New Shooter" I have got to ask if you really know what you want and will it suit your purpose...???

For purpose, what do you want to do, what is the rifle in question...???

Bunny busting is one thing and works well with a cheap scope, going way further up market is another thing.

As I said, I'm nuts been playing for many dozens of years and I have a love for nice gear.

Can I ask you, how old are you...??? Just new shooter ...??? Varmint shooting and / or do you have a passion for target shooting.

As I said, I love target shooting and love the challenge of sorting out all the different .22LR Ammo that is available, picking a breed, spending hours rim sizing and weight checking the bloody things but it does pay off.... another topic subject I have covered in the past.

Its a T bolt, and the reason why I have the Zeiss as an option is because I can get the scope for $1200. But I guess my main purpose at the moment is to bust bunnys. I plan to change the scope over to a centerfire once I've learnt to shot properly and then I'll be going for deer and pigs.

[Apollo]

"zeiss classic diavari 3-12 x 56"

Rather expensive but if you have the cash then why not.

Nice optics, you can always put it on something else if the fad wears off.

Sorry, but I love the story of Zeiss Optics and what they do to make the best out of shooting at night without any spotlight which is illegal where they are. Optics designed to use natural light at night.

There are other European Optics but they tend to be that much more expensive for perhaps a name rather than preformance.

[bhs]

"zeiss classic diavari 3-12 x 56"

Rather expensive but if you have the cash then why not.

Nice optics, you can always put it on something else if the fad wears off.

Sorry, but I love the story of Zeiss Optics and what they do to make the best out of shooting at night without any spotlight which is illegal where they are. Optics designed to use natural light at night.

There are other European Optics but they tend to be that much more expensive for perhaps a name rather than preformance.

hmm well the nightforce and the zeiss are pretty such the same price just not sure what would be better for value and more suitable .

[Apollo]

For me, Zeiss wins....

One big point is weight....weight means extra glass somewhere to achieve a goal, why..??? Is there some reason Nightforce are so heavy with extra Lens that distract from their goal.

If I had the extra money I would buy a small March Scope.

[bhs]

Thanks heaps for your replies ive learnt a few things.

The zeiss weighs 525g and the nightforce weighs 808g. big difference in weigh, but the nightforce has a parallax adjustment. as a new shooter im not sure if ill need the parallax adjustments.

March would be too expensive for me

[Apollo]

Btw.... Side Parallax Adjustment some people by mistake call "Side Focus" but it has nothing to do with "Focus" .... Side parallax adjustment requires a complete extra set of lens to achieve that goal.

A good friend of mine and another person in the USA were involved with the evolution of the Nightforce BR Series with "Front Parallax" adjustment on the Objective Lens. This meant lens overall lens's reuired to achieve their goal and hence why the BR Model has better optics at long range than the NXS Series. More difficult to adjust but hey, they were designed to use at one distance for a Benchrest Target use....not fiddle with.

Parallax adjustment or parallax error is your own eye moving across the ocular lens and it's alignment with the cross hairs causing a percieved movement of the target and reticle. Position your eye in exactly the same spot, better still dead centre on the reticle and parallax error is non existant. Not easy but it's possible with practise. Study what parallax error is and think about it.

One reason why I don't believe in "Cheek Weld" but rather practise keeping my head and eye upright in a verticle plane each time I rest againd the rifle butt. My head is verticle and my shooting eye behind the center of the reticle not tipped over sideways and I'm comfortable. Plus my opposite eye is in the same plane and I see what is happening around or watching when I learn to put them out, wind flags from my non shooting eye.

Very high power scopes, like my March-X 8-80x56mm have very small "Exit Pupil Diameters" like in the order of 1.00mm or less and you need to get that in the centre of your own eye pupil. If you don't you see black through the scope. With practise you can come up to a scope like that and instantly have a sight picture. No practise and you are there for minutes trying to figure out what is broken or wrong that you can't get a sight picture.

When you get old , cranky and broken like I am all this gets even harder but mainly your eyesight and the ability to adapt so us old blokes over 60 odd struggle to keep up and are happy when those little groups or single shots hit the mark at long distance. Better still is to help teach someone else and watch / hear the joy of a centre hit on a 150mm plate at 500 metres..... ....or further.

Okay, good optics also means you can see that mark or hole at long range not guess where it hit.

Buy the best optics you can afford, doesn't matter what rifle. If you change your mind you can use it on something else that comes along.

[bhs]

I've done some research about parallax and understand it much better now.

What would you say is better value? (both scopes costing pretty much the same price)

Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x50 OR Zeiss classic 3-12x56 or maybe something else around the $1200 mark.

[mausermate]

Apollo..nice post mate! I learnt something from that. Thanks.

[Apollo]

I've done some research about parallax and understand it much better now.
What would you say is better value? (both scopes costing pretty much the same price)
Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x50 OR Zeiss classic 3-12x56 or maybe something else around the $1200 mark.

Just remember that the greater the distance the more error parallax introduces, if you are shooting 500 metres accurately you need to adjust for parallax error or you will spoil those tiny groups. Hunting you have a greater margin of error as you aren't trying to hit a tiny say 2mm dot inside a 25mm main score ring.

I don't think I can comment accurately on you two choices as I have not had first hand useage of either.

In my mind is that the first Zeiss Conquest Scopes like I have had are Zeiss by name but they most certainly not Germany Made Zeiss or Optics. The Zeiss Conquest was as best I found out manufactured in Mexico, the optic lens's as best I discovered were made in Japan and then the lot was sent just a few miles away to the Zeiss Factory over the border in the USA. Hence they are branded "Assembled in the USA". The optic glass quality was good.

The Zeiss Classic I would imagine is made in Germany but which quality level of their "Schott" optic glass I don't know but it's not their absolutely top quality as used in their extremely high price top of the range models.

Lots of different optic glass qualities all available from the same manufacturer as happens in Japan.

Leupold is another manufacturer that has delved into extremely high quality models using the best available optic glass. Like the Leupold VX-7 I have for sale on this Forum. Leupold tried to compete with the best or is it better quality European Scopes by using the best quality optical glass which is a toss up if they actually obtained some Schott Glass from Zeiss or they used the top grade Japanese Optical Glass made for Nightforce, Dion (March) and the like but really the experiment failed as they were very overpriced and from memory well over $2,000 here. The one I have initially cost around $1,700 and I think it is exceptional compared to the normal run of the mill Leupolds like VX-3's which I have a few of but they are not in the same ball game. They are also not heavy and probably lighter than the Zeiss but have "Side Focus" Parallax Adjustment. Leupold have some nice features for a Varmint / Hunting Scope but they are not high power Target Scopes.

Leupold have returned to high end optic glass with their latest VX-6 line and are a little better priced but still expensive. I believe the VX-7, Tactical and VX-6 might all use the same quality optic lens glass.

To answer your question. The Zeiss Classic is probably the better quality but less power, the Conquest more power magnification but may not be as good a quality. I have not investigated into the latest Conquest story.

[RDobber]

Hunting you have a greater margin of error as you aren't trying to hit a tiny say 2mm dot inside a 25mm main score ring.

20cm dot inside a 2m deer.

Almost the same?

[bigfellascott]

This thread is a crack up! Am I understanding this right, your wanting a scope to shoot bunnies with? you honestly don't need to spend a fortune to shoot rabbits for god sake, the bloody things are usually only 40-50m or so away and if you think you need 12x mag for that you're a crap shot and I'd suggest learning to shoot properly before shooting fur!

I use a 4x or 6x Fixed Jap Tasco and can usually shoot bunnies in the head at 80m if I really try - if you want a cheap but good scope have a look at the Nikons, especially ones with a 50mm Objective in say the 3-9 mag range, that's plenty of mag for bunnies unless you're shooting em at 150-200 under a light (which obviously you aren't seeing as its for a 22).

The problem with putting too much mag on rifles is that you can see every little bit of movement you make which in turn makes it hard to get a good sight picture quickly and hence getting a good shot on fur (been there done that) its much easier to take shots with lower mag scopes especially when you're shooting off hand or on a makeshift rest like a tree or off the ground or even using a bipod.

Set it up with some mounts that get the scope as low as possible to the barrel and you should have a nice shooter that can be shot off hand or using a rest.

[lole]

Nightforce 4-14 x 56 SHV.

Good yes, but also massive overkill...

[Prios]

Entry level Leupold will do just as good for you here and at 1/5th the price...